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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2009 11:14:25 GMT
Free bus travel for all pensioners in Wales should be scrapped because of the cost, an advisory group has urged.
The independent ministerial advisory group on transport wants the assembly government to begin an urgent review, arguing it is becoming unaffordable.
It said: "The current approach to subsidising public transport (at a cost of some £230m in 2008-09) is rapidly becoming unaffordable.
"There is an urgent need for a review to consider how to target the subsidies in the most efficient and effective way...
The best way of making public transport spending more efficient would be to make the pensioner bus travel scheme apply at off peak times only. The danger of the current policy is that it is eating up far too much of the transport budget and not allowing us to develop other public transport networks."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2009 11:41:14 GMT
Free bus travel for all pensioners in Wales should be scrapped because of the cost, an advisory group has urged. The independent ministerial advisory group on transport wants the assembly government to begin an urgent review, arguing it is becoming unaffordable. It said: "The current approach to subsidising public transport (at a cost of some £230m in 2008-09) is rapidly becoming unaffordable. "There is an urgent need for a review to consider how to target the subsidies in the most efficient and effective way... The best way of making public transport spending more efficient would be to make the pensioner bus travel scheme apply at off peak times only. The danger of the current policy is that it is eating up far too much of the transport budget and not allowing us to develop other public transport networks." Err.....this hairy old chestnut was flogged to death by you a few weeks ago IIRC.  You start off 'substantiating' your view with reference to a 'selective quote' (which in truth is a very subjective opinion) from some august body (which you fail to specify), allegedly calling for a review (which has yet to happen) into a subject which has recently been the basis of much discussion anyway, let alone action to extend rather than curtail, facilities for OAP's. With skills like that, you should have been a politcian's spin doctor!  ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by snowman on Aug 5, 2009 11:52:51 GMT
Here is a link to the story, by chance I had seen it on BBC news website before looking here news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/wales_politics/8184100.stmBighat, some of your comments are tough for a news story published today, even if subject has been discussed in the past but I agree, bob should have included the link, and whole BBC story is rather more balanced than the selection of quotes posted |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2009 12:44:38 GMT
Here is a link to the story, by chance I had seen it on BBC news website before looking here news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/wales_politics/8184100.stmBighat, some of your comments are tough for a news story published today, even if subject has been discussed in the past but I agree, bob should have included the link, and whole BBC story is rather more balanced than the selection of quotes posted Yes, but read it more carefully and you will soon note that it refers only to Wales, it is a total 'nothing story' on a quiet news day. It is totally lacking FACT, but is heavy on OPINION and SUGGESTION, as I said, a politician's spin story! It is a pity bob chose to regurgitate it here 'yet again'. Does he have an agenda? The needs of London pensioners are a country mile away from transport problems in Wales in any case, and once again the entire issue centres around what it COSTS now, rather than the lifetime of contribution to the nation's economic well being that has been made by the majority of the beneficiaries. By the same token, is anyone suggesting that we should not educate children because of the horrendous COST now? Lets view this sort of thing in context. This article fails miserably, and is a disgrace to the BBC news people! They ARE capable of better! |
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Post by john on Aug 5, 2009 13:58:24 GMT
The needs of London pensioners are a country mile away from transport problems in Wales in any case, and once again the entire issue centres around what it COSTS now, rather than the lifetime of contribution to the nation's economic well being that has been made by the majority of the beneficiaries. In all honesty, he has posted it in the right section, seeing as it's Bus Operations In The UK. I haven't read the article yet, might do later. That's my money's worth |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2009 18:13:20 GMT
Here is a link to the story, by chance I had seen it on BBC news website before looking here news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/wales_politics/8184100.stmBighat, some of your comments are tough for a news story published today, even if subject has been discussed in the past but I agree, bob should have included the link, and whole BBC story is rather more balanced than the selection of quotes posted Yes, but read it more carefully and you will soon note that it refers only to Wales, it is a total 'nothing story' on a quiet news day. It is totally lacking FACT, but is heavy on OPINION and SUGGESTION, as I said, a politician's spin story! It is a pity bob chose to regurgitate it here 'yet again'. Does he have an agenda? The needs of London pensioners are a country mile away from transport problems in Wales in any case, and once again the entire issue centres around what it COSTS now, rather than the lifetime of contribution to the nation's economic well being that has been made by the majority of the beneficiaries. By the same token, is anyone suggesting that we should not educate children because of the horrendous COST now? Lets view this sort of thing in context. This article fails miserably, and is a disgrace to the BBC news people! They ARE capable of better! Well the problem is the cost of these schemes are escalating out of all control In London some retrictions have already been introduced. The cost of the scheme in England is now over £1 Billion a year. It is also considerable reducing the money available for improving bus service. In Wales 80% of the transport budget goes on subsidised fares and services leaving very little to improve services The options they are looking at are to retrict the free passses to those on benefits or to restrict them to off peak local journeys with half fare being paid at peak times and for non local journeys. I think it is pretty certain the rest of the UK will have to go down the same road particularly when budgets are being reduced. What is more imprortent spending on the NHS & police or Free fares. It |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2009 19:03:40 GMT
Yes, but read it more carefully and you will soon note that it refers only to Wales, it is a total 'nothing story' on a quiet news day. It is totally lacking FACT, but is heavy on OPINION and SUGGESTION, as I said, a politician's spin story! It is a pity bob chose to regurgitate it here 'yet again'. Does he have an agenda? The needs of London pensioners are a country mile away from transport problems in Wales in any case, and once again the entire issue centres around what it COSTS now, rather than the lifetime of contribution to the nation's economic well being that has been made by the majority of the beneficiaries. By the same token, is anyone suggesting that we should not educate children because of the horrendous COST now? Lets view this sort of thing in context. This article fails miserably, and is a disgrace to the BBC news people! They ARE capable of better! Well the problem is the cost of these schemes are escalating out of all control In London some retrictions have already been introduced. The cost of the scheme in England is now over £1 Billion a year. It is also considerable reducing the money available for improving bus service. In Wales 80% of the transport budget goes on subsidised fares and services leaving very little to improve services The options they are looking at are to retrict the free passses to those on benefits or to restrict them to off peak local journeys with half fare being paid at peak times and for non local journeys. I think it is pretty certain the rest of the UK will have to go down the same road particularly when budgets are being reduced. What is more imprortent spending on the NHS & police or Free fares. It Another typical politians response! It's called the 'fait acompli 'method. You convince your readership its already a done deal so there is no point in opposing it or getting involved.! Quote: "In London some retrictions (sic) have already been introduced". Really, WHAT restrictions, and by WHOM? You then blab on about the cost nationally (but do NOT say from WHERE you have got your figures) and in Wales, when your arguement is the cost in London (which you fail to mention is paid for by the London Boroughs Authority!). Next, a partial admission of WHAT is INTENDED to cut costs (but again fail to say WHOM is making these proposals, what happened to the notion that these changes were already being introduced?). Finally you finish up with the old ' choice' heart tugger, again without acknowledging that the money for these 'choices' are funded totally DIFFERENTLY! You will have to do far better than pedalling this old tosh if you are to win a reasoned and proven arguement on this subject. Please do not treat your readers with such contempt as to their intelligence by proffering such sterotypical rubbish! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2009 5:20:42 GMT
Well the problem is the cost of these schemes are escalating out of all control In London some restriction's have already been introduced. The cost of the scheme in England is now over £1 Billion a year. It is also considerable reducing the money available for improving bus service. In Wales 80% of the transport budget goes on subsidized fares and services leaving very little to improve services The options they are looking at are to restrict the free passes to those on benefits or to restrict them to off peak local journeys with half fare being paid at peak times and for non local journeys. I think it is pretty certain the rest of the UK will have to go down the same road particularly when budgets are being reduced. What is more important spending on the NHS & police or Free fares. It Another typical politicians response! It's called the 'fait acompli 'method. You convince your readership its already a done deal so there is no point in opposing it or getting involved.! Quote: "In London some restrictions (sic) have already been introduced". Really, WHAT restrictions, and by WHOM? You then blab on about the cost nationally (but do NOT say from WHERE you have got your figures) and in Wales, when your argument is the cost in London (which you fail to mention is paid for by the London Boroughs Authority!). Next, a partial admission of WHAT is INTENDED to cut costs (but again fail to say WHOM is making these proposals, what happened to the notion that these changes were already being introduced?). Finally you finish up with the old ' choice' heart tugger, again without acknowledging that the money for these 'choices' are funded totally DIFFERENTLY! You will have to do far better than pedalling this old tosh if you are to win a reasoned and proven arguement on this subject. Please do not treat your readers with such contempt as to their intelligence by proffering such sterotypical rubbish! The same issues are being expressed in England & by the London boroughs. The scheme in its current form has become unaffordable. Most council are running with a big deficit on the subsidized bus passes. The current costs is over £1 Billion a year. If you are unaware of the changes to the validity of the passes in London then you clearly lack knowledge of the subject. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2009 5:25:28 GMT
Millions of middle-class pensioners face being stripped of their free bus passes.
A report by town hall chiefs yesterday said too many people who own cars or can afford tickets are taking advantage of free travel.
It said spending £1billion a year of taxpayers' money on them was a waste and free bus passes should be only for the poor. It called for 'targeting' - or means-testing - to select those who deserve the privilege.
The report, commissioned and published by the Local Government Association, the umbrella body for councils, brought alarmed reactions from pensioner groups.
Officials say jobs may go and services could be cut because of shortfalls running to £30million across 50 councils.
Some have warned that council taxes will have to go up - by as much as 16 per cent - to cover the costs. Major cuts were already looming because of the recession.
Now the study prepared for the LGA by consultants Oxera has warned: 'The scheme is targeted too widely, benefiting many people on higher incomes and with access to cars (i.e. those not affected by social exclusion and accessibility issues before the introduction of the scheme).'
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2009 9:59:48 GMT
Millions of middle-class pensioners face being stripped of their free bus passes. A report by town hall chiefs yesterday said too many people who own cars or can afford tickets are taking advantage of free travel. It said spending £1billion a year of taxpayers' money on them was a waste and free bus passes should be only for the poor. It called for 'targeting' - or means-testing - to select those who deserve the privilege. The report, commissioned and published by the Local Government Association, the umbrella body for councils, brought alarmed reactions from pensioner groups. Officials say jobs may go and services could be cut because of shortfalls running to £30million across 50 councils. Some have warned that council taxes will have to go up - by as much as 16 per cent - to cover the costs. Major cuts were already looming because of the recession. Now the study prepared for the LGA by consultants Oxera has warned: 'The scheme is targeted too widely, benefiting many people on higher incomes and with access to cars (i.e. those not affected by social exclusion and accessibility issues before the introduction of the scheme).' Ah, NOW we are getting closer to the facts! Even so, this is ONLY a report. What is alarming is the sensational speculative headlines which precede it, as well as the 'claims' by 'officials' (unnamed and unsubstantiated) as to the outcome IF any decision is made to bring in means-testing for applicants for a Freedom type pass. So all this froth is really reuced to one very simple suggestion and possible recommendation by this commitee, to MEANS-TEST applicants for a Freedom Pass. Big Deal! Has any research been made to find out what the uptake (actual use) of Freedom Passes IS by the middle-classes whom it claims will be deprived of Passes in the future? Lets face it, if you can afford to own and run a car, are you, as an individual, likely to make public transport your automatic first choice for your personal transport needs? Do we need a committee to work that one out? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2009 12:00:21 GMT
I rather suspect it is the way costs are recovered that is the problem, most probably that there are leaks everywhere as far as individual councils are concerned. Also, judging by the fact that a lot of buses are now PACKED with OAPs (at least a few in my local area) off-peak, the bus companies are probably doing VERY well even charging the councils half fare. If an OAP makes multiple journeys on one day, then the bus company's revenue from this person could potentially exceed the cost of the day ticket. So perhaps a more relevant question would be how to reduce the leaks to the private sector (if my suspitions are proved to have any substance that is).
Also, has there ever been a study done to investigate change in spending patterns of OAPs since free passes have been introduced? More over, could those funding shortfalls better be attributed to the general state of the economy, and that this claim on OAP passes being expensive is just something easy to be taken at face value?
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