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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 24, 2019 2:17:51 GMT
I was under the impression that passenger excess waiting time was one of the performance targets that affected contract extensions. It seems that companies receive a route specification to run buses between 2 points at specified frequencies. My most often used route is Go Ahead's 386 usually between Woolwich and Herbert Road. There are supposed to be buses every 15 minutes during the day. Traffic conditions can be awful particularly across Blackheath. London Buses and Go Ahead want to remove the first 4 stops after the existing stand. This hasn't gone to consultation yet but London Buses removed the 386 e tiles from the stops last December and refused to put them back until the Council intervened. It now seems that an operator doesn't need to meet the specified frequency and can turn buses short of their destination with impunity. This evening I was having something to eat in a cafe in Hare Street. I was able to observe 386s. Buses ran along the road at 1550, 1638 and 1704. Does this not result in excess waiting time? 386 is a low frequency so EWT is done by time. i.e after 5 mins late bus would count as fine, over 2 mins 30 secs early bus would count as fine. So if Go-Ahead cannot have the buses running within this, then they would be losing money. It appears Go-Ahead may have been chopping the service and sending only 1 bus within the hour through past a certain agreed qsi point along the route so they would not be penalised with results. This is agreed with Centrecomm (NMCC)
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Post by vjaska on Nov 24, 2019 3:16:03 GMT
B9TL’s drive better than any ADL crap that’s for sure, having now driven over 5 different batches both on Voith and ZF, nothing else new comes close, yes they may shift up super early but they fly up any hill, they hold the road very well at speed and every now and then you get one that actually brakes smoothly haha, if you were to drive the Voith ones back to back with a ZF you’ll notice how powerful the ZF retarder is The B9TL's may be a better bus overall, but I would rather drive a bus that is faster than a limped out bus that can only move properly when going up hills. Its just as bada as the Arriva Econospeed system, which did the same thing. I find the ZF retarder never as powerful unless you pushed to feel physical pressure from the brake pedal. Which had tired your knees out more. The Voith you hardly had need to press the pedal and the retarder would be whining out.
They can move properly on flat roads as well - they don't need hills just to move quickly.
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Post by VPL630 on Nov 24, 2019 4:50:57 GMT
B9TL’s drive better than any ADL crap that’s for sure, having now driven over 5 different batches both on Voith and ZF, nothing else new comes close, yes they may shift up super early but they fly up any hill, they hold the road very well at speed and every now and then you get one that actually brakes smoothly haha, if you were to drive the Voith ones back to back with a ZF you’ll notice how powerful the ZF retarder is The B9TL's may be a better bus overall, but I would rather drive a bus that is faster than a limped out bus that can only move properly when going up hills. Its just as bada as the Arriva Econospeed system, which did the same thing. I find the ZF retarder never as powerful unless you pushed to feel physical pressure from the brake pedal. Which had tired your knees out more. The Voith you hardly had need to press the pedal and the retarder would be whining out.
Yeah, hands down I’d take a 5 speed ZF B7TL any day of the week for service work
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Post by cl54 on Nov 24, 2019 5:13:17 GMT
I was under the impression that passenger excess waiting time was one of the performance targets that affected contract extensions. It seems that companies receive a route specification to run buses between 2 points at specified frequencies. My most often used route is Go Ahead's 386 usually between Woolwich and Herbert Road. There are supposed to be buses every 15 minutes during the day. Traffic conditions can be awful particularly across Blackheath. London Buses and Go Ahead want to remove the first 4 stops after the existing stand. This hasn't gone to consultation yet but London Buses removed the 386 e tiles from the stops last December and refused to put them back until the Council intervened. It now seems that an operator doesn't need to meet the specified frequency and can turn buses short of their destination with impunity. This evening I was having something to eat in a cafe in Hare Street. I was able to observe 386s. Buses ran along the road at 1550, 1638 and 1704. Does this not result in excess waiting time? 386 is a low frequency so EWT is done by time. i.e after 5 mins late bus would count as fine, over 2 mins 30 secs early bus would count as fine. So if Go-Ahead cannot have the buses running within this, then they would be losing money. It appears Go-Ahead may have been chopping the service and sending only 1 bus within the hour through past a certain agreed qsi point along the route so they would not be penalised with results. This is agreed with Centrecomm (NMCC)
Thanks for this clarification. What I still don't understand is that LVF consistently shows buses due at the stop within x minutes that then disappear. The first and third stop usually have around 6 people boarding during shopping hours. The third stop in Thomas Street has considerably more. I can't understand why London Buses want to remove these stops from the route. The stop in Vincent Road outside Woolwich Arsenal station only has space for 3 buses at a time. The last I saw of any proposal was that buses on the 386 would set down at the stop and then stand further down the road. They would then loop round via a stop outside the Covered Market and turn left into Vincent Road to pick up. This would be impractical and confusing for customers.
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Post by WSD3 on Nov 24, 2019 8:24:37 GMT
Looks like the 357's have converted back to streetlites for today. I wonder why?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 9:59:23 GMT
Looks like the 357's have converted back to streetlites for today. I wonder why? That's interesting I thought there wasn't enough WS's at NP any more to provide the Sunday service, I thought that was why it had to convert to SEe.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 11:21:31 GMT
386 is a low frequency so EWT is done by time. i.e after 5 mins late bus would count as fine, over 2 mins 30 secs early bus would count as fine. So if Go-Ahead cannot have the buses running within this, then they would be losing money. It appears Go-Ahead may have been chopping the service and sending only 1 bus within the hour through past a certain agreed qsi point along the route so they would not be penalised with results. This is agreed with Centrecomm (NMCC)
Thanks for this clarification. What I still don't understand is that LVF consistently shows buses due at the stop within x minutes that then disappear. The first and third stop usually have around 6 people boarding during shopping hours. The third stop in Thomas Street has considerably more. I can't understand why London Buses want to remove these stops from the route. The stop in Vincent Road outside Woolwich Arsenal station only has space for 3 buses at a time. The last I saw of any proposal was that buses on the 386 would set down at the stop and then stand further down the road. They would then loop round via a stop outside the Covered Market and turn left into Vincent Road to pick up. This would be impractical and confusing for customers. Because to get buses back to time, the controllers instruct buses to miss out the loop at Woolwich (either start on Vincent Road, or if not too late then start outside Sainsbury's) which is not an imputtable curtailment as you are only losing mileage on the return trip, so up until the point they turn around, the bus would still show as going the full route. Doesn't help that they can't tell you to show QE Hospital and run out of service to Woolwich anymore because of the long term closure of the Warren Lane roundabout, so if doing that you would have to start outside Sainsbury's because there is no way to get to Hare Street unless you go all the way to Plumstead Garage to turn around.
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Post by cl54 on Nov 24, 2019 19:43:39 GMT
Thanks for this clarification. What I still don't understand is that LVF consistently shows buses due at the stop within x minutes that then disappear. The first and third stop usually have around 6 people boarding during shopping hours. The third stop in Thomas Street has considerably more. I can't understand why London Buses want to remove these stops from the route. The stop in Vincent Road outside Woolwich Arsenal station only has space for 3 buses at a time. The last I saw of any proposal was that buses on the 386 would set down at the stop and then stand further down the road. They would then loop round via a stop outside the Covered Market and turn left into Vincent Road to pick up. This would be impractical and confusing for customers. Because to get buses back to time, the controllers instruct buses to miss out the loop at Woolwich (either start on Vincent Road, or if not too late then start outside Sainsbury's) which is not an imputtable curtailment as you are only losing mileage on the return trip, so up until the point they turn around, the bus would still show as going the full route. Doesn't help that they can't tell you to show QE Hospital and run out of service to Woolwich anymore because of the long term closure of the Warren Lane roundabout, so if doing that you would have to start outside Sainsbury's because there is no way to get to Hare Street unless you go all the way to Plumstead Garage to turn around. I have seen buses within a couple of minutes of each other at the QE Hospital. In olden days the later bus would transfer passengers to the other and then run light to Woolwich via the 178. I have suggested a better alternative would be to swap the 178 and proposed 386 stand. This would at least preserve the Calderwood Street stop (a shorter walk from Hare Street) and the Thomas Street stop. It would also mean that the three routes going to Lewisham could share the same stops.
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Post by Volvo on Nov 25, 2019 13:02:01 GMT
Does anyone know what these 'global' stickers that are appearing on buses are about please.
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Post by rm1422 on Nov 25, 2019 13:09:18 GMT
Does anyone know what these 'global' stickers that are appearing on buses are about please. Global the radio business ( Capital, LBC, Heart etc.) are now also in the outdoor advertising business and that includes buses. Putting Global on them reminds listeners about Global the brand.
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Post by Volvo on Nov 26, 2019 4:03:21 GMT
Does anyone know what these 'global' stickers that are appearing on buses are about please. Global the radio business ( Capital, LBC, Heart etc.) are now also in the outdoor advertising business and that includes buses. Putting Global on them reminds listeners about Global the brand. Thanks very much.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 26, 2019 11:34:42 GMT
Does anyone know what these 'global' stickers that are appearing on buses are about please. Global the radio business ( Capital, LBC, Heart etc.) are now also in the outdoor advertising business and that includes buses. Putting Global on them reminds listeners about Global the brand. Not a fan of Global company itself. Do not like how they have bullbozed the radio stations they have acquired owned and changed them up completely. Now they seem to have bought Viacom outdoor which was previously adshel, think that company that did advertising from London Transport since the 80's (after LT advertising was sold) are now on their 5th takeover. Global have now put their sticker on some buses below the advert frame like they have done on some train station advertisement hoardings. Like they are aiming to take a swipe at the French JC Decaux.
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Post by george on Nov 26, 2019 14:05:20 GMT
Global the radio business ( Capital, LBC, Heart etc.) are now also in the outdoor advertising business and that includes buses. Putting Global on them reminds listeners about Global the brand. Not a fan of Global company itself. Do not like how they have bullbozed the radio stations they have acquired owned and changed them up completely. Now they seem to have bought Viacom outdoor which was previously adshel, think that company that did advertising from London Transport since the 80's (after LT advertising was sold) are now on their 5th takeover. Global have now put their sticker on some buses below the advert frame like they have done on some train station advertisement hoardings. Like they are aiming to take a swipe at the French JC Decaux.
Not a fan of Global either many local talented broadcasters have lost their because of the major global brands being nationalised. Bauer will now follow suit. Anyway back to buses
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 21:26:04 GMT
The folly of cutting so many buses from a busy route such as the 18 proved the wrong decision today. Roadworks in Harlesdon and associated idiotic drivers ignoring temporary lights was causing delays of up to an hour. Credit to LU the controllers were doing a great job at trying to ensure an even service. Lots of turns ( Paddington Green, Harrow Road "Police Station" , Craven Park, Stonebridge Park)
I caught VH45234 after it was turned at Harrow Road as it went back to Sudbury. Full up by Ladbroke Grove. Even the bunched buses were carrying standing loads.
So despite an extra train per hour on the overground, that doesn't help most of the route as it's on it's own between Wembley and Harlesdon.
Ridiculous decision made, dare I say, just to provide buses on the cheap for the 306. Which is a Frankenstein route created by another tfl madcap decision to butcher another Brent route (266)
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Post by rj131 on Nov 27, 2019 23:01:56 GMT
The folly of cutting so many buses from a busy route such as the 18 proved the wrong decision today. Roadworks in Harlesdon and associated idiotic drivers ignoring temporary lights was causing delays of up to an hour. Credit to LU the controllers were doing a great job at trying to ensure an even service. Lots of turns ( Paddington Green, Harrow Road "Police Station" , Craven Park, Stonebridge Park) I caught VH45234 after it was turned at Harrow Road as it went back to Sudbury. Full up by Ladbroke Grove. Even the bunched buses were carrying standing loads. So despite an extra train per hour on the overground, that doesn't help most of the route as it's on it's own between Wembley and Harlesdon. Ridiculous decision made, dare I say, just to provide buses on the cheap for the 306. Which is a Frankenstein route created by another tfl madcap decision to butcher another Brent route (266) I tell you what route I think will be next on their hitlist. The 29. That had a huge fall in patronage last year and has a huge PVR, they’ve been working their way through the busiest routes as TfL are shelling out the most money for them so they can obviously see big savings there. The seven busiest routes are the 18, 25, 29, 140, 149, 243 and 207. Five of those have been dealt with (18 and 25 had huge cuts as we know, 207 frequency reduction, 140 butchered and the 149 was adjusted in the CLBC consultation). I’d imagine the 243 is safe for now as that is getting continually busier, I suspect they will turn their attention and get their unleash their guillotine on the 29 pretty soon.
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