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Post by rhys on May 23, 2019 8:18:48 GMT
What I find different on the LT is they just feel so stuffy like no air is flowing around. I don't think the lower ceiling and smaller windows help. I do see boarding passengers looking for windows to open more on LTs than other buses. That's the only issue I have with LTs and think they have uses especially in busy routes like the EL1 at Ilford. The smaller windows actually reduce the greenhouse effect, buses with unnecessarily large windows are the worst for that. The NRM does have a sheer amount of windows though. Especially when you consider the NRM in comparison to other buses. Large glass window structures like the rear dome does really heighten the greenhouse effect. I don’t think by having smaller windows on the upper deck, it would counteract it. Especially when you consider other windows, such as the nearside lower deck windows and the rear dome glass are pretty large. After studying the NRM extensively for my project, I noticed the NRM does use quite an excessive amount of plastic, for the walls, ceilings and mouldings, which can add to the heat on the interior. Nonetheless, I’m personally a really big fan of the NRM, despite the very apparent flaws most of us can agree on.
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Post by 15002 on May 23, 2019 8:29:49 GMT
The smaller windows actually reduce the greenhouse effect, buses with unnecessarily large windows are the worst for that. The NRM does have a sheer amount of windows though. Especially when you consider the NRM in comparison to other buses. Large glass window structures like the rear dome does really heighten the greenhouse effect. I don’t think by having smaller windows on the upper deck, it would counteract it. Especially when you consider other windows, such as the nearside lower deck windows and the rear dome glass are pretty large. After studying the NRM extensively for my project, I noticed the NRM does use quite an excessive amount of plastic, for the walls, ceilings and mouldings, which can add to the heat on the interior. Nonetheless, I’m personally a really big fan of the NRM, despite the very apparent flaws most of us can agree on. Yeah that’s really the only problem I have with some of the NRMs. The earlier batches seem a lot more hotter than the later batches.
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Post by galwhv69 on May 23, 2019 15:21:36 GMT
The NRM does have a sheer amount of windows though. Especially when you consider the NRM in comparison to other buses. Large glass window structures like the rear dome does really heighten the greenhouse effect. I don’t think by having smaller windows on the upper deck, it would counteract it. Especially when you consider other windows, such as the nearside lower deck windows and the rear dome glass are pretty large. After studying the NRM extensively for my project, I noticed the NRM does use quite an excessive amount of plastic, for the walls, ceilings and mouldings, which can add to the heat on the interior. Nonetheless, I’m personally a really big fan of the NRM, despite the very apparent flaws most of us can agree on. Yeah that’s really the only problem I have with some of the NRMs. The earlier batches seem a lot more hotter than the later batches. Not necessarily,currently on LT669 and it is a f ucking sauna
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Post by Alexis on May 23, 2019 15:35:23 GMT
Currently on an 8 in Old Ford and I've noticed that at the top of some bus stops are stickers covered up that say something like Fare Zone Pass Stage, and then underneath a sticker with the number 2, does anyone have any information on when these used to be used and why? I'm assuming they're a reference to the train zone of the area but it does seem rather unusual.
On an unrelated note this bus (LT247) is cooler than both 10302 and an E on the 147 that I was on earlier in the day
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Post by Hassaan on May 23, 2019 16:33:29 GMT
Currently on an 8 in Old Ford and I've noticed that at the top of some bus stops are stickers covered up that say something like Fare Zone Pass Stage, and then underneath a sticker with the number 2, does anyone have any information on when these used to be used and why? I'm assuming they're a reference to the train zone of the area but it does seem rather unusual. On an unrelated note this bus (LT247) is cooler than both 10302 and an E on the 147 that I was on earlier in the day Until the early 2000s, buses were also in zones. There were four of them, numbered 1-4, with the bus zone 4 also covering the area of rail zones 5-6. Bus zones were abolished around the time Oyster PAYG started and a few years later the zone numbers on the stop posts were covered up.
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Post by snoggle on May 23, 2019 16:51:21 GMT
Currently on an 8 in Old Ford and I've noticed that at the top of some bus stops are stickers covered up that say something like Fare Zone Pass Stage, and then underneath a sticker with the number 2, does anyone have any information on when these used to be used and why? I'm assuming they're a reference to the train zone of the area but it does seem rather unusual. On an unrelated note this bus (LT247) is cooler than both 10302 and an E on the 147 that I was on earlier in the day Just to add to what Hassaan has said those stickers helped passengers and drivers know what Travelcard / Bus Pass / fare zone a specific stop was in. This was designed to stop arguments where people tried to board outside the zone(s) their ticket was valid on. Also many years ago routes still had the concept of mileage based fare stages - this relates to the time that buses had graduated fares based on distance / zones. Old Ford is broadly in the area that was on the Zone 2/3 boundary but I am surprised the stickers have survived this long despite being covered over. I'd have imagined most bus stop flags would have been replaced or at least reviewed and overstickered since bus fare zones went. The move to Oyster ticketing and speeding up boarding times was a key reason why London went flat fare although the process of "flattening" the bus fare scale had been in progress for several decades. Goes back to Fares Fair and Just the Ticket campaigns under the GLC in the early 1980s (as far as I know) but older forum members may be aware of fare scale (rather than technology [1]) initiatives earlier than the 1980s. [1] LT had experimented with turnstiles, "clipper" card type tickets and Autocheck on various designs of buses over many decades to try to speed up boarding. Thankfully Ian Armstrong's site has some old style fare tables for those who may never have seen one before. Given the old 237 was discussed the other day here is an old fare table for the 237 (Hounslow - Chertsey). www.londonbuses.co.uk/fare-charts/237.pdf
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Post by Londonbuses54 on May 25, 2019 6:41:42 GMT
Does anyone else order Allison MMC apart from Abellio?
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Post by busoccultation on May 25, 2019 9:09:08 GMT
Does anyone else order Allison MMC apart from Abellio? Arriva has E200 MMC's with Allison gearbox on the 377 & B13.
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Post by vjaska on May 25, 2019 11:10:23 GMT
Does anyone else order Allison MMC apart from Abellio? Allison was allowed to be ordered up until start stop was made mandatory on new contracts - since then, all operators are forced to choose Voith. That would explain why so few operators have MMC's with Allison boxes.
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Post by Londonbuses54 on May 25, 2019 11:20:12 GMT
Does anyone else order Allison MMC apart from Abellio? Allison was allowed to be ordered up until start stop was made mandatory on new contracts - since then, all operators are forced to choose Voith. That would explain why so few operators have MMC's with Allison boxes. Oh so that’s why no one buys Allison anymore
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 25, 2019 11:32:24 GMT
Is this a conflation of two issues? I see no problem with doors being open, and as an old codger that used to be normal - indeed when the RFs were introduced the Police would not allow them to have closing doors in the Central area as open doors were considered safer. On the other hand if people expect the doors to be closed on a busy bus that would be a risk if the mechanism doesn't work and the bus should be taken out of service. I can remember when just about every bus in Central London had an open platform and on doored buses it was allowed, well nobody said otherwise, to have the front door open during hot weather. I can vividly remember a DMS on the 50 with both doors open during a heatwave which seemed a bit risky even in those pre H&S days. We don't know whether the driver on that 476 knew the back doors were open but surely they would have spotted the plug doors protruding when looking in the nearside mirror even if passengers hadn't alerted them? Possibility he didn't notice. After pulling away, your biggest concern is the road ahead.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 25, 2019 11:34:11 GMT
Makes me laugh in the age of smart phones the first reaction is always to make a video / take a picture then maybe tell the driver - Probably after posting on your social media feed. I agree with this, but surely the driver must’ve noticed. If you’re checking all of your mirrors properly before the doors close, the various alarms throughout and you can hear the engine more clearly and other roadside noise I was on a 92 stock central line when the door slide open in a tunnel, I didn't take my phone out and start filming to post on social media. Its all about getting 'hits' and attention with many people sadly.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 25, 2019 11:40:50 GMT
Currently on an 8 in Old Ford and I've noticed that at the top of some bus stops are stickers covered up that say something like Fare Zone Pass Stage, and then underneath a sticker with the number 2, does anyone have any information on when these used to be used and why? I'm assuming they're a reference to the train zone of the area but it does seem rather unusual. On an unrelated note this bus (LT247) is cooler than both 10302 and an E on the 147 that I was on earlier in the day Until the early 2000s, buses were also in zones. There were four of them, numbered 1-4, with the bus zone 4 also covering the area of rail zones 5-6. Bus zones were abolished around the time Oyster PAYG started and a few years later the zone numbers on the stop posts were covered up. There are a lot of stops where it was covered over with silver vinyl, over the years the heat has made them show through the underneath of the previous vinyl fare stages. Its very apparent at stops if you sit on the upper deck nearside as your very close to the bus stop flag at times.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 25, 2019 11:44:50 GMT
Does anyone else order Allison MMC apart from Abellio? Allison was allowed to be ordered up until start stop was made mandatory on new contracts - since then, all operators are forced to choose Voith. That would explain why so few operators have MMC's with Allison boxes. They must be kicking themselves. The Cummins Engine/Allison gearbox combo which started from the Metrorider then was used in the Dart has been common for nearly 30 years. In London virtually all Darts had this combo.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 25, 2019 12:00:34 GMT
I understand the need for a safer environment for cyclist/pedestrians but this scheme is just poorly designed. Traffic congestion is bad enough as it is during peak periods. Surely it would have been better to either restrict motor vehicles/private hire vehicles/taxis but no one wants a compromise (Taxi demos). It seems a lot of the tech companies around that area tend to use them. Old Street roundabout has been an accident black spot for years and not just for cyclists, improvements were long overdue It was made worse around 15 years ago when they tried to make it cycle safety by narrowing the approaches to the roundabout. This was then worse for buses and HGV's as the lanes were now to tight and resulted in more collisions at the roundabout due to the narrow lane'ing effect.
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