|
Post by snowman on Jan 1, 2011 8:47:30 GMT
To demand triple pay and a day off is totally unreasonable. As I understand it there wad an agreement in place that Boxing day would be treated as a normal day in return for increased pay and holidays. ASLEF appear to want to back out of that agreement now. In most jobs that require shift & bank holiday pay most people would be paid basic pay plus a shift allowance The pay they get already reflects the need for shift work & weekend & Bank holiday working. Over the holidays I discovered one of my relatives gets triple time (or maybe was equivalent of triple time) when he covers Sundays every few weeks as a locum (he is a pharmacist) and this is when he works at Boots. So perhaps triple time isn't dead. Best I ever got in Retail was when I worked for Safeways. Double time on Sundays, but if you did night shelf stacking got third extra (unsocial hours allowance). So Sunday evenings 8pm to midnight was at two and a third rate. However if you are salaried (including a shift / holiday allowance) rather than paid hourly, then I think claiming triple time for holidays is pushing your luck. High rates are basically an incentive to get volunteers when you need extra staff, not to fulfil normal contractual hours
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2011 13:21:25 GMT
How many is that now this year alone? Well I'm in ASLEF - Boxing day was our first strike for 2 years as it happens. RMT are the strike first negotiate later specialists, however you have to remember that they represent all grades including engineering as well as front line operations - so an engineering only strike may well affect operations but operations get the blame regardless even if they did turn up for and were prepared to work. I have just fired off an email to aslef as the comments by their spokesman that workers in the retail sector get paid triple time are utterly ludicrous. Ludicrous eh? You might wanna check yer facts my friend.... My mates daughter works in a ladies underwear shop and she got triple time for working on Boxing day and double time for working Monday 27th and Tuesday 28th. LU haven't even recognised the 27th or 28th as Bank Holidays this year!! Agreed. LUL spend far too much time on strike. Yep, one union or particular grade goes on strike and that automatically means all LU employees are out. I think you read far too many Evening Standard stories.... To demand triple pay and a day off is totally unreasonable. Yes, it is unreasonable. No ASLEF member I know thinks that's at all reasonable but the Union has to start higher than it'll settle for - because LU said no straight away and woulkd not discuss the issue, it's the only thing on the table. As I understand it there wad an agreement in place that Boxing day would be treated as a normal day in return for increased pay and holidays. ASLEF appear to want to back out of that agreement now. Your understanding is incorrect. Boxing day is outside the Bank holiday agreement. Boxing day includes depot rotation agreements (whole depot booked off) and reduced service levels such that drivers would normally expect to work one in four. With a full Sunday service on Boxing day - and this year it was a Sunday funnily enough - it was being treated as a normal working day by LU. In most jobs that require shift & bank holiday pay most people would be paid basic pay plus a shift allowance The pay rates , hours & holidays for drivers on LU are very generous indeed. They are now trying to uses Bank holidays to gain them even more money. The pay they get already reflects the need for shift work & weekend & Bank holiday working. I won't deny our holidays are generous, at 43 days for drivers - but hang on a minute, even us mickey taking drivers don't get as a much holidays as our station staff colleagues - they get 50 days!! And let's not forget, those 43 days also include banked rest days which are earned by working more hours per week than we are actually paid for, as well as a certain number amount of bank holiday working (hence why Boxing day is a separate issue). Will we get 44 days next year owing to the extra bank holiday? I ain't holding my breath. Bank holidays used to be a Sunday service; it's now a Saturday service and so we are generally working more of them - current agreements still work on the basis of a Sunday service - in fact the agreements for both Boxing day and bank holidays date back to 1996. Isn't it fair to look at them again after 15 years? Unfortunately I think the time has come that ASLEF were put into place. If that means sacking drivers and replacing them then so be it as if action is not taken things will get even worse.They are now striking or working to rule on a regular basis. Time to call a halt to this. Like I said, ASLEF hasn't been on strike for over two years so you cannot use the term "regular basis" as it simply isn't true. Yeah, why not sack us all. You won't have a service for six to nine months as your new staff will need training - and that's assuming they can actually pass the training and do the job. If only it were that simple eh!! Tube driver thoough do not work long hours. The maximum shift they can work is 8 hours 8½ actually
|
|
|
Post by greeny253 on Jan 5, 2011 11:27:03 GMT
Yep, one union or particular grade goes on strike and that automatically means all LU employees are out. I think you read far too many Evening Standard stories.... I hadn't set out to offend anyone there mate. My apologies if you took that comment personally. Also I'm more of a Sun man..... "bob" is our resident Evening Standard specialist ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by londonbusboy on Jan 6, 2011 17:42:26 GMT
Colin,
I dont know much about the underground as i dont really take an interest in all that but i know drivers get paid alot dont the rest of the LU staff get a good wage?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 15:20:49 GMT
LU drivers get paid very well indeed for what is quite a simple job. Sure it requires a degree of skill but then most jobs do . They operate in quite a controlled environment. They don't really have to worry about other traffic thats all taken care of. In some cases all they have to do is press a couple of buttons to start the train
The job requires shift working & bank holiday working and thats reflected in the high basic pay they get. Why should they expect to get treble time & a day off for working a bank holiday?
For far to long the RMT has been allowed to get away with telling TfL how to run it. It is time for TfL to stand Upton the RMT.
No one can claim that LU drivers do not have very good pay and conditions. Probably the most stressful thing about the job is boredom as they have little to do particularly with the automatic trains
|
|
|
Post by greeny253 on Jan 10, 2011 1:54:44 GMT
LU drivers get paid very well indeed for what is quite a simple job. Sure it requires a degree of skill but then most jobs do . They operate in quite a controlled environment. They don't really have to worry about other traffic thats all taken care of. In some cases all they have to do is press a couple of buttons to start the train The job requires shift working & bank holiday working and thats reflected in the high basic pay they get. Why should they expect to get treble time & a day off for working a bank holiday? For far to long the RMT has been allowed to get away with telling TfL how to run it. It is time for TfL to stand Upton the RMT. No one can claim that LU drivers do not have very good pay and conditions. Probably the most stressful thing about the job is boredom as they have little to do particularly with the automatic trains I'm open to correction but I'm sure the boxing day strike was nothing to do with the RMT but was ASLEF... The RMT are getting involved with this latest one on the Northern Line (which in itself is another discussion altogether!)
|
|
|
Post by daveb0789 on Jan 10, 2011 5:29:28 GMT
Bob, aircraft pilots also operate in a controlled environment. Most of the flying is done on autopilot so fighting boredom again can become a factor. Captains can earn in excess of 100k yet why aren't they labeled as overpaid since a lot of their job is automated or made easier with computers?
|
|
|
Post by RM5chris on Jan 10, 2011 18:25:52 GMT
I heard on local news that ASLEF are thinking about striking on the day of the Royal Wedding.
Are they INSANE?
Part of going on strke is also to get sympathy/support from the public against management - something that if they strike on this event will not be forthcoming at all IMO.
|
|
|
Post by jay38a on Jan 10, 2011 18:35:00 GMT
I heard on local news that ASLEF are thinking about striking on the day of the Royal Wedding. Are they INSANE? Part of going on strke is also to get sympathy/support from the public against management - something that if they strike on this event will not be forthcoming at all IMO. I just heard that also on ITN London News. I can see TfL trying another court injunction if the matter is not resolved but if its successful is another matter. I bet Boxing Day was a nightmare with hardly any tubes, and now the Royal Wedding Day with hardly any tubes, that will just get people annoyed as there will be many non Londoners coming down to see the Wedding.
|
|
|
Post by daveb0789 on Jan 10, 2011 21:35:36 GMT
I heard on local news that ASLEF are thinking about striking on the day of the Royal Wedding. Are they INSANE? Part of going on strke is also to get sympathy/support from the public against management - something that if they strike on this event will not be forthcoming at all IMO. Its got nothing to do with getting public support.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 0:43:35 GMT
I hadn't set out to offend anyone there mate. My apologies if you took that comment personally. Also I'm more of a Sun man..... "bob" is our resident Evening Standard specialist ;D ;D No, I hadn't taken it personally - I just like to make sure everyone knows there's more than one Union on LU, that they never work together, and therefore no LU staff are constantly on strike. Colin, I dont know much about the underground as i dont really take an interest in all that but i know drivers get paid alot dont the rest of the LU staff get a good wage? Yes indeed; as I alluded to in my reply #106 above, other grades also enjoy generous terms & conditions despite the generalisation that it's only us drivers that are onto a winner. LU drivers get paid very well indeed for what is quite a simple job. Sure it requires a degree of skill but then most jobs do . They operate in quite a controlled environment. They don't really have to worry about other traffic thats all taken care of. In some cases all they have to do is press a couple of buttons to start the train Here we go again....somebody hasn't bothered to read my previous contribution to this very thread have they? (reply #106 if you can be arsed) There's much more to your journey on an LU train other than the bit where the driver gets you safely from A to B. For starters all LU staff have to know the rule book and railway procedures as they apply to their role - in the case of our line controllers, that's the whole lot. And they have to know how to implement any part of it at the drop of a hat without referring to any written guidance. In terms of drivers specifically, and rules & procedures aside, we also have to learn our rolling stock inside out so that we can solve or bypass defects in real time out on the railway - that's up to 4 weeks initial training and will be a one day refresher every 12 months. On the District line we have two stocks, so not only is there the added complication of know two completely stocks in tandem, but the initial training goes up to six weeks and the 12 month refresher is now two days. Sticking with the District, we also have to learn Network Rail's rules & procedures as we run under them on the Wimbledon and Richmond branches (the Bakerloo boys also run under them north of Queens Park) - all other lines have to learn a "slim line" version known as parallel running. This also forms a day of annual refresher training - in fact a whole week is dedicated to refresher training every 12 months. The platform train interface (the bit where you board or alight from a train) is considered to be the most dangerous part of any journey and there is a d*mn sight more to it than simply opening & closing the doors - a lot of time & money is invested by LU in equipment & training in relation to, granted what I appreciate seems like a simple thing, but it really is totally warranted. If only it was as simple as pushing a couple of buttons. The job requires shift working & bank holiday working and thats reflected in the high basic pay they get. Why should they expect to get treble time & a day off for working a bank holiday? For far to long the RMT has been allowed to get away with telling TfL how to run it. It is time for TfL to stand Upton the RMT. No one can claim that LU drivers do not have very good pay and conditions. Probably the most stressful thing about the job is boredom as they have little to do particularly with the automatic trains Well I answered the treble time thing in reply #106, Greeny has corrected you on which is the correct Union in the context of the current discussion and only 3 lines are fully automatic (that's the Victoria, Central and Jubilee FYI). Of course just cos they're running in ATO, it doesn't mean the drivers are incapable of taking over manually as they're fully trained to do so. I heard on local news that ASLEF are thinking about striking on the day of the Royal Wedding. Are they INSANE? Yes, they are - and I'm an ASLEF member ;D ;D Now I haven't seen anything other than the BBC news story online ( www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12153653). That quite clearly says "Aslef said there was a remote chance of its members walking out on 29 April" - note the use of the words 'remote chance'. Note also that this is ASLEF's senior officials making the threat and not us drivers. Now it is my understanding that Boxing day is outside the bank holiday agreements, and that the Boxing day dispute is therefore irrelevant in relation to other bank holidays. If ASLEF are now claiming otherwise, I would suggest that us members have been led up the proverbial garden path. Time will tell and I'm sure it'll all come in the wash. In the mean time, a new pay deal is due from April. No discussions have taken place as yet, so you can bet your life RMT will be in dispute come April 2nd........ ........
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 16:00:32 GMT
Bob, aircraft pilots also operate in a controlled environment. Most of the flying is done on autopilot so fighting boredom again can become a factor. Captains can earn in excess of 100k yet why aren't they labeled as overpaid since a lot of their job is automated or made easier with computers? Because an airline pilot needs very extensive training and they have to be medicall tested each year and have to undogo testing each year and in many cases they have to pay for their own training. The level of training and skill need to fly a plane does not compare to the relatively simple task of flying a plane. There are a large number of variables they have to take into account particularly on take off and landing
|
|
|
Post by daveb0789 on Jan 15, 2011 10:41:00 GMT
So are you then appreciating the underlying knowledge tube drivers must have according to Colin? On National Rail I understand drivers are tested yearly to keep their competence something that doesn't happen in the pcv world unless you count the driver CPC which is impossible to fail anyway ! I think now that modern tube trains are more sophisticated with CCTV cameras and ATO equipment the driver has to be ever more adaptable and able to quickly diagnose any faults should they occur.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 12:38:36 GMT
Colin have you got hard documentation to prove that your mates daughter gets that sort of money in retail? I am well established in retail and know a great deal of many people in all different companies and strands of retail to know that it is only the odd 1 or 2 provide such luxury as that. So therefore I was correct in my original statement That the spokesman was totally out of order. Perhaps as a memeber of Aslef you could exert some pressure to invoke an appology?
|
|
|
Post by rygr500 on Jan 15, 2011 14:13:24 GMT
Whoever says that being a train driver being paid £40,000 is justified is narrow minded and irrational.
I work as a Rides Operator at a major UK theme park and I regularly have the safety of in excess of a hundred people in my hands. I do that job for sometimes 12, 13 or 14 hours long but I don't even get paid a third of that.
Peoples lives are in my hands and I regularly have to take evasive action to stop them putting their health at risk.
Do I go out and strike because I'm not paid enough? No. Why? Because it's a job and there is a real risk of unemployment in this day and age - being so exceptionally selfish in such hard times by tube drivers is disgraceful.
|
|