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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 16:07:03 GMT
I second you wholehartedly on this. All I can add is that if everybody in every company got paid that sort of moeny we would be very much bust by now totally with no way back! Whoever says that being a train driver being paid £40,000 is justified is narrow minded and irrational. I work as a Rides Operator at a major UK theme park and I regularly have the safety of in excess of a hundred people in my hands. I do that job for sometimes 12, 13 or 14 hours long but I don't even get paid a third of that. Peoples lives are in my hands and I regularly have to take evasive action to stop them putting their health at risk. Do I go out and strike because I'm not paid enough? No. Why? Because it's a job and there is a real risk of unemployment in this day and age - being so exceptionally selfish in such hard times by tube drivers is disgraceful.
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Post by daveb0789 on Jan 16, 2011 1:14:38 GMT
Which job has more respect and status? A rides operator or a train driver ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 4:04:02 GMT
Colin have you got hard documentation to prove that your mates daughter gets that sort of money in retail? Of course not - I'm not about to demand access to her wage slip not least because that would be bang out of order. She works for La Senza and that's about as much as will be revealed. Like me, you will just have to take what she claims at face value. I am well established in retail and know a great deal of many people in all different companies and strands of retail to know that it is only the odd 1 or 2 provide such luxury as that. So therefore I was correct in my original statement That the spokesman was totally out of order. Perhaps as a memeber of Aslef you could exert some pressure to invoke an appology? I am merely a basic member with no clout whatsoever. Maybe the ASLEF 'spokesman' based his comments upon a similar taken-at-face-value belief. Still, it's good to see misinformation isn't just limited to LU.... Whoever says that being a train driver being paid £40,000 is justified is narrow minded and irrational. I work as a Rides Operator at a major UK theme park and I regularly have the safety of in excess of a hundred people in my hands. I do that job for sometimes 12, 13 or 14 hours long but I don't even get paid a third of that. Peoples lives are in my hands and I regularly have to take evasive action to stop them putting their health at risk. Do I go out and strike because I'm not paid enough? No. Why? Because it's a job and there is a real risk of unemployment in this day and age - being so exceptionally selfish in such hard times by tube drivers is disgraceful. You are entitled to your viewpoint, however the issue that has arisen is beyond the headline wage figure. LU have tried to rewrite our terms & conditions without actually bothering to mention anything to it's workforce first. All we have done is pulled them up on it and said that we'd like something in return for taking away some of the previous agreements. The alternative was to say/do nothing and let them get on with it. On the face of it we do look greedy and the Unions have played it so badly that they've allowed the media to have a field day. All I can say is I don't know a single driver that believes the triple time and a day in lieu thing is reasonable - in fact the vast majority of us would be happy to just have the agreement in place as was and have that be the end of the matter. We are where we are though and the beds been made. Which job has more respect and status? A rides operator or a train driver ? On the face of it, both jobs should command equal status & respect. That being said, whilst one may involve longer hours they are only for limited times of the year - in fact if you are responsible for peoples safety and you're doing 14 hour days, well that says all I need to know. Regularly having to take evasive action to stop people putting their health at risk? I wouldn't want your job either thanks all the same. Of course the other job is year round shift work, can be responsible for the safety of up to 1,000 people at any one time, has a zero tolerance drugs and alcohol limit, has many rules & procedures which must be known and followed at the drop of a hat, has fault diagnosis & rectification of rolling stock and carries annual testing of all the above plus random on-the-job assessments. Oh yeah, almost forgot road training - that's learning all signal locations including which ones are controlled, approach controlled or fully automatic, signal cabin codes, all routes including sidings & branches, gradients, speed limits, etc. Also on the District & Bakerloo we need to learn, know and be tested on Network Rail rules & procedures too. There's more but I must be boring you by now. So yeah, ride operator and train driver are pretty similar roles......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 8:50:57 GMT
Which job has more respect and status? A rides operator or a train driver ? If I was at Thorpe Park I wouldn't want a train driver operating the ride, if on the tube I wouldn't want a ride operator driving.
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Post by rygr500 on Jan 16, 2011 9:29:31 GMT
Not going to argue the example any further past this post but..
Yeah, we are assessed randomly and anonymously daily. We do need to know our rides, to be able to assess any faults that arise are rectified as yes, there are a lot of times there are situations that if they aren't rectified, youve got a f**k load of injuries on your hands. I do a permanent job in my park, fortunately.
And directly dealing with the public except in emergency situations I think is something drivers may not appreciate - it's the poor sod dispatching on the platform of the tube station platform who does! I bet they're paid poo all too.
I again won't take the example any further but it was just to iron out a few ignorances. And thankfully it's not Thorpe Park I work at!
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Post by daveb0789 on Jan 16, 2011 14:25:27 GMT
Rides are static. You aren't going to be on your own necessarily and you can call for help. You can't compare that to a train breaking down either on tunnel or in the middle of nowhere. I also hazard a guess that the training period to operate a ride is a lot shorter than that required for a tube/train driver. Are there any entry assessments for ride operator ? For train driver it's two goes and you're out - forever ! Not sure about tube drivers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 15:25:30 GMT
The two attempts at passing the entry tests are the same for LU, though they are two attempts in addition to any NR TOC (all TOC's count together so it's 2 attempts only throughout the UK on NR). The entry tests are the same for both NR and LU.
Drivers can have a lot of interaction with LU's customers, though it will generally be either whilst waiting to pick up, when turned short (especially during engineering works) or as a result of some sort of incident.
Recently I was held at Upney because of a trespasser on the track. I had Police present asking me not to move the train and passengers making all sorts of threats and trying to intimidate me into moving the train by calling me unpleasant names and making physically threatening gestures. It goes with the territory unfortunately but it's a lot more common that you may suspect.
As for my station staff colleagues, they certainly do take a lot more abuse - sadly it seems to be something our customers think is normal & acceptable behaviour - for that they get around £25,000 I believe. Station staff also get 10 weeks holiday versus 8 weeks for drivers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 15:44:17 GMT
As for my station staff colleagues, they certainly do take a lot more abuse - sadly it seems to be something our customers think is normal & acceptable behaviour - for that they get around £25,000 I believe. Station staff also get 10 weeks holiday versus 8 weeks for drivers. Thats not bad money to deal with abusive customers, Id gladly get paid that sort of money in retail, to deal with nasty customers!
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Post by john on Jan 16, 2011 19:23:34 GMT
As for my station staff colleagues, they certainly do take a lot more abuse - sadly it seems to be something our customers think is normal & acceptable behaviour - for that they get around £25,000 I believe. Station staff also get 10 weeks holiday versus 8 weeks for drivers. Thats not bad money to deal with abusive customers, Id gladly get paid that sort of money in retail, to deal with nasty customers! If I was paid £25,000 to deal with mindless idiots then yeah, I wouldn't be doing my degree either ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 19:51:04 GMT
Seems great when you write it eh?
Bet you that in reality, going through it every day, you'd soon be changing your view.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 20:13:24 GMT
Colin, I have a wide experience of retail in all different areas of london and the south east, so I can quite comfortably say I will never change my view as most days there are problems of some sort with the general public, mind you it is my recognition that members of the public fail to care or understand good manners with regards to Sales Assistants. Perhaps if you took a turn as a shop worker you would feel exactly the way I do.
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Post by daveb0789 on Jan 16, 2011 20:39:18 GMT
Sorry I would say on a Friday/Saturday night I don't see people drunk and shouting in Tescos causing problems for staff and customers and i'm pretty sure if anyone did start, they would be dealt with promptly. In a shop you can get help. With lone workers such as on board staff (bus or train) this is not as forthcoming and time is a factor.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 21:26:40 GMT
Dave have you got personal experience of working in a store of any size? If you have you would understand where I am coming from
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Post by john on Jan 16, 2011 21:50:53 GMT
Dave have you got personal experience of working in a store of any size? If you have you would understand where I am coming from I do, I've worked in a number of retail companies, including fast food currently, and it is not fun. I'm not digging at LU workers here by any means, but we haven't got a screen in front of us (I work in a chip shop, traditional one) and deal with drunks quite often, especially in Harold Hill. The thing is, the highest annual wage (remember, most retail workers are paid by the hour) was around £10,000 p.a. I'm only on £5.95 p.h, so if I want some decent money, then I have to work stupid hours!! I'm talking 40 hours in a week and I probably still don't earn over £200 for the week. I can promise now, the work in retail might be easier, but we deal with a hell of alot of problems too
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Post by daveb0789 on Jan 16, 2011 22:43:40 GMT
I worked in Tescos a long time ago and hated it, Since then I haven't worked in retail. I'm a part time coach driver and i appreciate how hard those jobs are however - i've seen platform staff have to deal with drunks and for me the main difference between a store and a job like that is large stores have help. Its very different on a bus/coach or train.
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