Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2012 17:52:09 GMT
DLR you can get out no problemo but on LU, where the hell are you going to get out from. you cant raid the cab, you'd have a computer attacking you . they should have used crossrail as a means of testing it out and to see if it actually is safe and works Also on DLR and the ATO lines, you have a member of staff available but driverless trains there are none on board. What driverless means is absolutely no staff on the train. no PSA or something like that. Next thing you know, you'll have driverless buses and trams ;D If you are on the lewisham underground stretch of the DLR how exactly does it differ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2012 18:35:45 GMT
Also on DLR and the ATO lines, you have a member of staff available but driverless trains there are none on board. What driverless means is absolutely no staff on the train. no PSA or something like that. The idea of driverless trains doesn't necessarily mean there's absolutely nobody on board - they could well employ PSAs.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Dec 5, 2012 18:54:27 GMT
No Point Really. The benefit will be minimal (if any), plus the cost of introducing it, and then staff will still probably be paid to be on board, since computers cant quite yet give first aid or reassure passengers. How will the emergency button work? Passenger: Im so very ill Computer: Sudbery Hill is on the Piccadily Line. Passenger: I feel very sick, stop the train please! Computer: Response unrecognised, would you like me to search 'I ill every sick, stop the rain please' How does it work at present - you do not have direct contact witht hte driver - you wait till the station or pull the emergency alarm which will delay you getting treatment even longer. Station staff can give the first aid and reassure passenger as probably they would now This example would be no different than from today I believe tube trains have intercoms in each compartment where the passengers can communicate with the driver in case of such emergencies. I've seen it in use once on the Northern Line with their present stock.
|
|
|
Post by RM5chris on Dec 5, 2012 19:02:17 GMT
Next thing you know, you'll have driverless buses and trams ;D I don't see why not if you have a guided busway and a control system similar to ATO - should be possible.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2012 19:29:23 GMT
How does it work at present - you do not have direct contact witht hte driver - you wait till the station or pull the emergency alarm which will delay you getting treatment even longer. Station staff can give the first aid and reassure passenger as probably they would now This example would be no different than from today I believe tube trains have intercoms in each compartment where the passengers can communicate with the driver in case of such emergencies. I've seen it in use once on the Northern Line with their present stock. It shouldn't function much differently in theory if you were to radio a control room somewhere. Next thing you know, you'll have driverless buses and trams ;D I don't see why not if you have a guided busway and a control system similar to ATO - should be possible. It certainly shouldn't be a problem for trams, anyway - they can only run in a straight line. As for buses, it would be much more tricky.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2012 20:56:40 GMT
I believe tube trains have intercoms in each compartment where the passengers can communicate with the driver in case of such emergencies. I've seen it in use once on the Northern Line with their present stock. It shouldn't function much differently in theory if you were to radio a control room somewhere. I don't see why not if you have a guided busway and a control system similar to ATO - should be possible. It certainly shouldn't be a problem for trams, anyway - they can only run in a straight line. As for buses, it would be much more tricky.[/quote] Trams can also be a trickynas you can have a person walk out from the middle of nowhere and there will be no one to stop the tram. Unless you try another solution like sensors which stop the tram immediately if there is a person in he way. But those can glitch too and have a huge amount of emergency stops
|
|
|
Post by daveb0789 on Dec 5, 2012 22:43:46 GMT
It's easy to automate a tube train. They run at relatively low speeds and and lines are usually self contained.
A main line train is something totally different. They are heavier and faster. Potential hazards include level crossings, foot crossings, workers on the track and slippery rails amongst other things. It's much harder than driving a bus.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2012 2:31:13 GMT
Jibran32 - A person's judgement can also 'glitch' leading to a 'human error' accident.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2012 2:37:17 GMT
The massive benefits to driverless trains is:
More money saved from not employing drivers Less disruption caused to the network as there would be less strikes
At the end of the day, ATO has been around in Europe since 1963 & the Victoria Line was ATO from day one in the late 1960's. If there is such a massive safety risk involved, don't you think they would of removed it rather than adding it to the Circle & Jubilee Lines as well as the DLR.
|
|
|
Post by daveb0789 on Dec 6, 2012 9:54:15 GMT
ATO is great for metros but there's a difference between ATO (automatic train operation) and UTO (unattended train operation). Remember drivers of ATO trains are paid the same as regular tube drivers (46k) and DLR PSAs get (37k). If the DLR staff walked out the whole thing would stop driverless or not!
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Dec 6, 2012 10:03:05 GMT
The massive benefits to driverless trains is: More money saved from not employing drivers Less disruption caused to the network as there would be less strikes At the end of the day, ATO has been around in Europe since 1963 & the Victoria Line was ATO from day one in the late 1960's. If there is such a massive safety risk involved, don't you think they would of removed it rather than adding it to the Circle & Jubilee Lines as well as the DLR. But i don't believe the ATO was always in use on the Victoria Line. Also, There was one time when I remember the train overshooting the station at Warren Street With the first Half of the first car already in the tunnel. The driver had no choice but to continue on to the next station Where he was driving the train slower, suggesting that it was now him that was driving rather than the ATO.
|
|
|
Post by daveb0789 on Dec 6, 2012 11:25:00 GMT
The Victoria line was designed with ATO from the start. But the system was far from perfect and could overshoot stations. Modern ATO systems are far superior but can still struggle in open sections.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2012 13:42:43 GMT
The Victoria line was designed with ATO from the start. But the system was far from perfect and could overshoot stations. Modern ATO systems are far superior but can still struggle in open sections. The original system was in place until the current trains were delivered as it had to be updated to accommodate them. I've used the Victoria Line from the early 90's to the present and I've never witnessed any overshooting of stations.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2012 13:47:27 GMT
ATO is great for metros but there's a difference between ATO (automatic train operation) and UTO (unattended train operation). Remember drivers of ATO trains are paid the same as regular tube drivers (46k) and DLR PSAs get (37k). If the DLR staff walked out the whole thing would stop driverless or not! The difference is the DLR hardly ever strike or even not at all. London Underground strike every year and I and many others have had enough. They either stop striking or face the consequence by replacing them with ATO or UTO. Oh and can Bob Crow be sacked while we at it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2012 13:55:47 GMT
ATO is great for metros but there's a difference between ATO (automatic train operation) and UTO (unattended train operation). Remember drivers of ATO trains are paid the same as regular tube drivers (46k) and DLR PSAs get (37k). If the DLR staff walked out the whole thing would stop driverless or not! The difference is the DLR hardly ever strike or even not at all. London Underground strike every year and I and many others have had enough. They either stop striking or face the consequence by replacing them with ATO or UTO. Oh and can Bob Crow be sacked while we at it. Bob Crow isn't a public servant, he's an elected union rep. We couldn't fire him if we wanted to, only the RMT Union could. Unfortunately we're stuck with him
|
|