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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 15:39:36 GMT
What happened to NBfL LT1? It havent been running since 21-11-2012. Read the post by 'snoggle' on page 1 of this thread. It takes a long while to tweak the bus then building the bus.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 9, 2013 16:01:49 GMT
Read the post by 'snoggle' on page 1 of this thread. It takes a long while to tweak the bus then building the bus. It takes more than 2 and a bit months to build a bus!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 17:42:16 GMT
It takes a long while to tweak the bus then building the bus. It takes more than 2 and a bit months to build a bus! So its 3 months How comes it takes nearly 3 months (since 21-11-2012) to just modify the bus? How many buses can they build at once?
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Post by marlon101 on Feb 9, 2013 17:54:20 GMT
It takes more than 2 and a bit months to build a bus! So its 3 months How comes it takes nearly 3 months (since 21-11-2012) to just modify the bus? How many buses can they build at once? just?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 18:23:09 GMT
So its 3 months How comes it takes nearly 3 months (since 21-11-2012) to just modify the bus? How many buses can they build at once? just?Impatience. DW35 is 'missing'.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 9, 2013 21:05:22 GMT
It takes more than 2 and a bit months to build a bus! So its 3 months How comes it takes nearly 3 months (since 21-11-2012) to just modify the bus? How many buses can they build at once? If you stop and think for a moment you might realise that modifying a prototype might well take longer than building a brand new bus from the ground up. Production spec buses will be made with standardised components to an agreed design on a production line. Modifying a prototype will mean taking it to bits first and then swapping out or fully replacing parts of the bus. I am speculating as to what is being done so *please* do not take the detail of what follows as the literal truth. As the prototypes are very heavy and Wrightbus have to reduce the weight I would not be surprised if things like the air cooling system, staircase or even floors or bits of the chassis have to be removed and then replaced. You also need to consider that the modification of LT1 is the first try and therefore Wrightbus will be taking their time, recording what is easy and what is difficult. They will be having to write down or video each step and also record the state of each of the components as they remove them. There will also be a need to test those components which are removed to see if they are worth reinstalling. They then have to put the bus back together possibly with a mix of new and original components. There is no guarantee that a mixed vehicle like this will work the same as either an original prototype or a brand new bus. I would also expect LT1 will be subject to very intensive tests before it comes back to London. The NB4L is a very complex bus and this is the first time one has been subject to such extensive changes. In this context it is no surprise that it is taking quite a long time. Other hybrids which have gone back for modification have also taken quite a long time to sort out and return to service. As others have said please do not be so impatient otherwise I will get the doctor to cancel your blue smarties.
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 9, 2013 23:05:47 GMT
So its 3 months How comes it takes nearly 3 months (since 21-11-2012) to just modify the bus? How many buses can they build at once? If you stop and think for a moment you might realise that modifying a prototype might well take longer than building a brand new bus from the ground up...As others have said please do not be so impatient otherwise I will get the doctor to cancel your blue smarties. Is Viagra causing his odd behaviour or have I confused my blue smarties? ;D I guess it's a question of waiting, there's plenty going on bus-wise anyway (new buses for the 52, 82 and the ones for the 24 will be here before we know it )
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Post by snoggle on Feb 9, 2013 23:49:43 GMT
Is Viagra causing his odd behaviour or have I confused my blue smarties? ;D I really don't think it is a good idea to go into more detail on that particular topic. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 11:11:08 GMT
Do consider the fact they've got to reduce the weight on the bus to make it meet TFL specifications for double-deck capacity - the max. gross weight was too low to accommodate 87 passengers and so the weight had to be reduced for production spec. Modifications to reduce the weight could take a while. It's also got to have other tweaks etc. to improve reliability. These things take time. Patience, my friend! If you stop and think for a moment you might realise that modifying a prototype might well take longer than building a brand new bus from the ground up. Production spec buses will be made with standardised components to an agreed design on a production line. Modifying a prototype will mean taking it to bits first and then swapping out or fully replacing parts of the bus. I am speculating as to what is being done so *please* do not take the detail of what follows as the literal truth. As the prototypes are very heavy and Wrightbus have to reduce the weight I would not be surprised if things like the air cooling system, staircase or even floors or bits of the chassis have to be removed and then replaced. You also need to consider that the modification of LT1 is the first try and therefore Wrightbus will be taking their time, recording what is easy and what is difficult. They will be having to write down or video each step and also record the state of each of the components as they remove them. There will also be a need to test those components which are removed to see if they are worth reinstalling. They then have to put the bus back together possibly with a mix of new and original components. There is no guarantee that a mixed vehicle like this will work the same as either an original prototype or a brand new bus. I would also expect LT1 will be subject to very intensive tests before it comes back to London. The NB4L is a very complex bus and this is the first time one has been subject to such extensive changes. In this context it is no surprise that it is taking quite a long time. Other hybrids which have gone back for modification have also taken quite a long time to sort out and return to service. As others have said please do not be so impatient otherwise I will get the doctor to cancel your blue smarties. Very interesting. How comes part of the specifications are exempt for prototypes? Like weight and seating plan? But the prototypes only got the basics but with the open platform added?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 13:47:29 GMT
Will probably look like this when it returns to TC. It´s a shame they repainted it all over red without black surrounds, but at least they put roundels and Arriva logos on it, unlike the ex 19 DW's, which are still devoid of any branding.
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Post by COBO on Feb 10, 2013 13:57:34 GMT
What happened to Metrolines DE1151? Because according to LVF it hasn't been in use since 11-01-2013?
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Post by snoggle on Feb 10, 2013 14:17:40 GMT
Do consider the fact they've got to reduce the weight on the bus to make it meet TFL specifications for double-deck capacity - the max. gross weight was too low to accommodate 87 passengers and so the weight had to be reduced for production spec. Modifications to reduce the weight could take a while. It's also got to have other tweaks etc. to improve reliability. These things take time. Patience, my friend! If you stop and think for a moment you might realise that modifying a prototype might well take longer than building a brand new bus from the ground up. Production spec buses will be made with standardised components to an agreed design on a production line. Modifying a prototype will mean taking it to bits first and then swapping out or fully replacing parts of the bus. I am speculating as to what is being done so *please* do not take the detail of what follows as the literal truth. As the prototypes are very heavy and Wrightbus have to reduce the weight I would not be surprised if things like the air cooling system, staircase or even floors or bits of the chassis have to be removed and then replaced. You also need to consider that the modification of LT1 is the first try and therefore Wrightbus will be taking their time, recording what is easy and what is difficult. They will be having to write down or video each step and also record the state of each of the components as they remove them. There will also be a need to test those components which are removed to see if they are worth reinstalling. They then have to put the bus back together possibly with a mix of new and original components. There is no guarantee that a mixed vehicle like this will work the same as either an original prototype or a brand new bus. I would also expect LT1 will be subject to very intensive tests before it comes back to London. The NB4L is a very complex bus and this is the first time one has been subject to such extensive changes. In this context it is no surprise that it is taking quite a long time. Other hybrids which have gone back for modification have also taken quite a long time to sort out and return to service. As others have said please do not be so impatient otherwise I will get the doctor to cancel your blue smarties. Very interesting. How comes part of the specifications are exempt for prototypes? Like weight and seating plan? But the prototypes only got the basics but with the open platform added? A prototype is built to see if the design can be turned into reality and can meet the specifications. It is no surprise to me that the buses have not met all of the spec. TfL have said in reports that all of the prototypes have had modifications to the air cooling system (we all know they boiled passengers in hot weather) and other components. The whole point of operating prototypes is to gather data from the vehicles, record fuel consumption, log faults and get feedback from drivers and mechanics. I would guess that Wrightbus and the manufacturers of the systems / components have had tons of data to go through to work out what has gone well, what hasn't and what needs to changed and how it has to be changed. The vehicle weight / passenger capacity thing is probably the most serious issue that Wrights have to fix. It is possible that they "over engineered" the prototypes to deal with worries about durability on the chassis and bodywork given all the weight of the engine, batteries, rear staircase / platform and glass. It may therefore be "easy" to lighten some parts of the bus to get it to spec but I would expect Wrights to be doing all sorts of metallurgical tests to see if there are signs of stress or wear in the prototypes' chassis or bodywork before deciding what to do.
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Feb 11, 2013 16:18:31 GMT
DW310 is missing. DW322 is missing. DW330 is missing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 20:35:17 GMT
A prototype is built to see if the design can be turned into reality and can meet the specifications. It is no surprise to me that the buses have not met all of the spec. TfL have said in reports that all of the prototypes have had modifications to the air cooling system (we all know they boiled passengers in hot weather) and other components. The whole point of operating prototypes is to gather data from the vehicles, record fuel consumption, log faults and get feedback from drivers and mechanics. I would guess that Wrightbus and the manufacturers of the systems / components have had tons of data to go through to work out what has gone well, what hasn't and what needs to changed and how it has to be changed. Well very lucky that technology today have finally built that bus to life from the professional art design. But will they have to drop the air conditioning and have the window shutters instead? I wished they added seats right at the front like what the Enviro400’s currently have. But will the seats have to be re-arranged to be sideways like on the Routemasters and the tube trains have? If theres major modifications made to the LT prototypes, will it cause the production LT’s to be called back in and be modified to the TFL specifications. Will it cause TFL to amend their specification to suit the NBfL needs. Does the same thing occurs to the hybrid buses as well?
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Post by snoggle on Feb 11, 2013 21:52:13 GMT
A prototype is built to see if the design can be turned into reality and can meet the specifications. It is no surprise to me that the buses have not met all of the spec. TfL have said in reports that all of the prototypes have had modifications to the air cooling system (we all know they boiled passengers in hot weather) and other components. The whole point of operating prototypes is to gather data from the vehicles, record fuel consumption, log faults and get feedback from drivers and mechanics. I would guess that Wrightbus and the manufacturers of the systems / components have had tons of data to go through to work out what has gone well, what hasn't and what needs to changed and how it has to be changed. Well very lucky that technology today have finally built that bus to life from the professional art design. But will they have to drop the air conditioning and have the window shutters instead? I wished they added seats right at the front like what the Enviro400’s currently have. But will the seats have to be re-arranged to be sideways like on the Routemasters and the tube trains have? If theres major modifications made to the LT prototypes, will it cause the production LT’s to be called back in and be modified to the TFL specifications. Will it cause TFL to amend their specification to suit the NBfL needs. Does the same thing occurs to the hybrid buses as well? I do not have any idea what specific modifications will be being made. I have no idea if the seat layout, windows or air con will be changed. Wrights will be modifying the prototypes to match the production spec. I do not see that the production buses will be delayed - they are being built to production specification so will come straight off the production line. Note that like any manufacturer Wrights will have a very detailed specification and design for each of their bus models - the NB4L is just one such design / spec. I have no idea if TfL have opted to amend their own spec for the NB4L (if they have one). AIUI TfL just have standard specs for features on the bus like total capacity, door design, handrail design, wheelchair ramp location. All manufacturers develop prototypes. There are all sorts of photos on Flickr of experimental AD Enviro buses being road tested. Sometimes initial batches of buses will be built and operators will use them for trial periods. We will soon have the Optare Metrocity with London United and that is the first one of those. We also had the test vehicles of the Electrocity and Wright hybrid double deck in London for trials.
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