jay
Conductor
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Post by jay on Mar 18, 2013 9:06:31 GMT
I don't know how true it is (Moz would know) but a Go-Ahead driver was telling me Arriva are taking staff on at £8.00 per hour fixed for 5 years. Yes I have heard that from a BN driver when I was thinking of applying there. not holding my breath but I wasn't for the Olympic money either so who knows.. putneydrivers.com/london-bus-campaign-2013.html
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Post by 6HP502C on Mar 18, 2013 14:08:05 GMT
Not going to happen. There are too many selfish and short sighted drivers to make any union fully effective. Imagine during the Olympics, some drivers worked on strike days, then put in a request to the union for strike pay.
It's an employers market at the moment, so it looks like starter rates are here to stay!
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Post by greeny253 on Mar 18, 2013 23:25:20 GMT
Not going to happen. There are too many selfish and short sighted drivers to make any union fully effective. Imagine during the Olympics, some drivers worked on strike days, then put in a request to the union for strike pay. It's an employers market at the moment, so it looks like starter rates are here to stay! Yep and we can thank those short sighted drivers for these low starter rates. When companies put out an £xxxx amount lump sum offer for blah blah T&C changes and the...... Oh look that says £xxxx...... Accept! Wages going down. Cost of everything going up. Race to the bottom. Hardly surprised by the sheer number of "Knowledge Bikes" around my garage at the moment.
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Post by daveb0789 on Mar 19, 2013 17:02:27 GMT
Maybe the drivers CPC will change things?
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Post by joefrombow on Mar 19, 2013 17:50:51 GMT
Do new starters not get any enhancements for working weekends and evenings then ?? Is the basic rate fixed what ever time they work ?? And what does this TUPE change effect just the bus industry or everything ? What exactly does it mean drivers will have to take a lower rate to be TUPE'd or lose there jobs ??
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Post by Steve80 on Mar 20, 2013 2:33:17 GMT
Theres one good thing. If I was a metrobus driver on the X26 and I was told I would have to moved to epsom, I would have quit. With the current arrangement I wouldn't get any redundancy pay.
But ultimately, its bad news. Now it doesn't matter what rota im on, if we lost the route and theres no additional work then I would lose my job. Then one of my options is to join another company for lesser pay. Possibly £9.50 instead of £12-13 im currently on. Doesn't soudn good at all. It makes me think if I get to that stage then would I ever go back
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 13:43:44 GMT
I genuinely fail to see why bus drivers are paid such a high amount, when in reality and compared to market wage, £12+ seems incredibly disproportionate for a customer service role with driving involved. Why is £9.50 so looked down upon?
Yes you need a PCV license but there are companies who will even pay that for you.
I work as a customer service team leader and don't even get anywhere near £12 an hour!
And don't say 'because of the abuse we get' - you've got the assault screen and code red for a reason..
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Post by joefrombow on Mar 20, 2013 14:47:33 GMT
I dont know how true it is I ve heard some of the ex 25 bendy drivers were on £ 18 ph If you think £12 is a lot !! And I think its more than just customer service with a bit of driving involved , a bus driver is taking on a lot of responsibility as in effect there responsible for up to 87 people on there 18 ton vehicle aswell as the safety of other road users and in London there is alot more traffic as compared to other parts of the UK, alot of safety is involved in it , driving for a living is alot more tiring than what people seem to think as you have to be constantly alert for long periods of time on top of that with possibly a bus load of schoolkids or loads of drunks from a night out so I personally think £12 is justified however I don't see nothing wrong with £9.50 for a new starter I do see the problem though with going from a high rate down to a low rate when you've worked your way up as it were , people have mortgages and bills to pay the more you earn the more you spend imagine losing out on maybe £ 400 a month from what your used to all because of the tendering system ?? I think all London bus company s should have universal pay grades .
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Post by vjaska on Mar 20, 2013 14:56:40 GMT
Sebastian - are you a Tory in disguise? ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 15:11:45 GMT
It doesn't matter - I employ people on near enough minimum wage but the people I manage can be looking after and have ultimate control over the safety of up to potentially 160 people at all times throughout their working days.
That's simply because it's just one of the 'traits of the industry'. They come under the same abuse and have less protection. They are also humans and have the same life factors like the rest of us - mortgage, food etc.
If we all got paid £15 minimum an hour - then you'd have inflation going up in line with it - money is an incredibly difficult variable, yet value doesn't change. Bankers are paid millions of pounds a year in line with the hundreds of millions that each one brings into the company. A bus driver however..?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 15:17:25 GMT
It doesn't matter - I employ people on near enough minimum wage but the people I manage can be looking after and have ultimate control over the safety of up to potentially 160 people at all times throughout their working days. That's simply because it's just one of the 'traits of the industry'. They come under the same abuse and have less protection. They are also humans and have the same life factors like the rest of us - mortgage, food etc. If we all got paid £15 minimum an hour - then you'd have inflation going up in line with it - money is an incredibly difficult variable, yet value doesn't change. Bankers are paid millions of pounds a year in line with the hundreds of millions that each one brings into the company. A bus driver however..? To ask the overarching question here, should we value people by how much money they generate for the economy? Bankers only generate money by playing with the money generated by people further down the scale, and that often falls through. Everyone should have a decent standard of living, whether they drive buses or manage trans-national corporations. One person isn't worth less than another just because they play a different role in society.
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Post by Steve80 on Mar 21, 2013 6:36:00 GMT
It doesn't matter - I employ people on near enough minimum wage but the people I manage can be looking after and have ultimate control over the safety of up to potentially 160 people at all times throughout their working days. That's simply because it's just one of the 'traits of the industry'. They come under the same abuse and have less protection. They are also humans and have the same life factors like the rest of us - mortgage, food etc. If we all got paid £15 minimum an hour - then you'd have inflation going up in line with it - money is an incredibly difficult variable, yet value doesn't change. Bankers are paid millions of pounds a year in line with the hundreds of millions that each one brings into the company. A bus driver however..? Bus drivers have an important role to play in society. If we didn't have bus drivers then people would struggle to get to work, overall affecting the economy Its not just about the abuse we get from the passengers, pedestrians and other road users. We have to be constantly alert when driving. One mistake can be critical. Anyway, I got a letter from the union that they are trying to get all companies around the table to discuss the various pay rates from the companies and to get them to pay one rate for all. Whether the companies agree is another thing but at least the unions are looking to into it
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Post by guybowden on Mar 21, 2013 8:52:48 GMT
With regards to pay, when I was in the training school last May/June time one of the classroom instructors told the class that there was a rumor going around that some of the driver starting rates after they have passed their PCV test in north London was 5p more than the minimum wage!
If you compare what train drivers and bus drivers get paid, bus drivers get a raw deal. Train drivers only have to deal with signals, speed limits, stopping distances for stations and signals, possibly worrying about people wanting to jump under the train and passengers trying to get into the cab. Where as bus drivers have to face and deal with the public (train drivers don't), other road uses who are impatient, inconsiderate, rude and don't understand/ follow the highway code. Somebody can jump in front of a bus at anytime along the route. There is more physical work involved in driving a bus (Es and EHs have heavier steering that Volvo buses) compared to train drivers. Yes train drivers have more responsibility because they carry more people but they have more control over their surrounding area/ environment.
About this time last year South West Trains were advertising for new drivers and when you started training your were on something like £22/£23k for the first year and then it went up to I think either £28k or £32k after a year and then when your training was completed about I think it was 22 or 24 months you would be on £42k a year!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2013 12:04:40 GMT
I genuinely fail to see why bus drivers are paid such a high amount, when in reality and compared to market wage, £12+ seems incredibly disproportionate for a customer service role with driving involved. Why is £9.50 so looked down upon? Yes you need a PCV license but there are companies who will even pay that for you. I work as a customer service team leader and don't even get anywhere near £12 an hour! And don't say 'because of the abuse we get' - you've got the assault screen and code red for a reason.. Probably won't go down well with bus drivers on here but you make a very good point, seems to me train/tube drivers are even more 'overpaid' compared to similar roles in other industries, lorry driving etc. Of course if I were a bus driver I'd be singing a different song ;D
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Post by daveb0789 on Mar 21, 2013 20:32:02 GMT
I'm sorry guybowden and antman I think you've got it wrong about train drivers. They can't be compared with lorry and bus driving. It's like comparing chalk and cheese. I hold a PCV license and am an ex London bus driver who drives coaches on private hire on my days off. But I'm a fully qualified train driver and I can tell you the entrance exams are so strict that you can only fail it once in your lifetime.. Twice and that's it forever. My training lasts a year and that's only for one route. More routes require additional training time. I need to have detailed knowledge of the trains I drive (traction) so I can fix any minor problems I might encounter. I can't just call out a mechanic. Bus driving is more physical - bit like a brick layer. Train driving is more mental, closer to a pilot due to the stopping distances involved. Remember a bus can at most carry 100 passengers. The maximum speed of a bus will be 62 mph and obviously you'll be lucky if you get anywhere near that in London. I can carry 1000 passengers at speeds up to 100 mph so 43k salary - it's a bargain and I'm worth it.
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