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Post by snoggle on Apr 14, 2013 11:25:28 GMT
Oh dear - the BBC Sunday Politics London have dug out the official approval paper for the 2013 Fares Revision which said TfL intends to take cash off all TfL bus services in 2013. The programme then covered comments from Labour on the London Assembly and London Travelwatch. There were concerns about people being left stranded at night and rows with bus drivers about how to travel if people had cash but not a working travel card (of whatever type). They then interviewed Leon Daniels from TfL. IMO he didn't do terribly well as he had to accept the document was genuine but then argue no decision had been taken. He then tried to argue that "the market" would decide - i.e. when the proportion of cash payers fell to the point when it was "too low". He then argued this meant when "the cost of collection was greater than the money collected". Not sure that is the market speaking?! More like TfL deciding it doesn't want to pay the cost. The BBC interviewer was not very good - she kept interrupting and arguing the toss. Leon ended up looking very exasperated - especially when the local MPs on the show were also arguing that the proposal was unfair and wrong. He then argued that you could buy a ticket from any railway station outside London to Zone 1 that gave unlimited travel in the centre on buses and tubes. No such ticket exists You can either get a zonal One Day Travelcard (Z16 plus outboundary) or a through ticket on to the tube only. I can see this one running and running with endless Mayor's Questions on the subject.
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Post by LX09FBJ on Apr 14, 2013 11:39:26 GMT
What the... So if I lived in, say Downe, and I don't have an Oyster card, does this mean I have to walk for an hour to buy a bus ticket!
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Post by IanF on Apr 14, 2013 11:59:13 GMT
What the... So if I lived in, say Downe, and I don't have an Oyster card, does this mean I have to walk for an hour to buy a bus ticket! Nope it means you need to get an oyster card which saves you money anyway or get a contactless bank card which will pay your fare. Oyster card's have a £5 deposit which if you return the card you get the deposit back.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 12:00:40 GMT
What the... So if I lived in, say Downe, and I don't have an Oyster card, does this mean I have to walk for an hour to buy a bus ticket! And you had better take a brolly I thought the whole idea of cashless buses had been kicked into the long grass, I can't see it happening anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 12:10:44 GMT
I knew something like that was going to happen.
A bus driver once told me a couple of years ago they are proposing to abolish cash fares. But i believe its going to be a debatable issue.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 12:52:46 GMT
I knew something like that was going to happen. A bus driver once told me a couple of years ago they are proposing to abolish cash fares. But i believe its going to be a debatable issue. And just imagine the delays as passenger and driver debate the issue ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 13:59:17 GMT
I knew something like that was going to happen. A bus driver once told me a couple of years ago they are proposing to abolish cash fares. But i believe its going to be a debatable issue. And just imagine the delays as passenger and driver debate the issue ;D They should make cash fare £3 so the drivers will only have to give back £2 in coins.
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Post by IanF on Apr 14, 2013 14:01:04 GMT
And just imagine the delays as passenger and driver debate the issue ;D They should make cash fare £3 so the drivers will only have to give back £2 in coins. Abolish the cash fare as it causes most of the issues go over to oysters and cbc's and you'll notice the buses will run smoother end of story.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 14:10:02 GMT
;D They should make cash fare £3 so the drivers will only have to give back £2 in coins. Abolish the cash fare as it causes most of the issues go over to oysters and cbc's and you'll notice the buses will run smoother end of story. Really Somebody gets on without an oyster but they can't pay cash either so whats gonna happen? Arguments and delays......end of story....run smoother ;D
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Post by IanF on Apr 14, 2013 14:27:18 GMT
;D Abolish the cash fare as it causes most of the issues go over to oysters and cbc's and you'll notice the buses will run smoother end of story. Really Somebody gets on without an oyster but they can't pay cash either so whats gonna happen? Arguments and delays......end of story....run smoother ;D Ok oyster cards are cheaper more convenient and unlike when some idiot gets on a bus and expects change of a £20 or free travel an oyster you just tap on and wow its done drivers have to get there own change in most cases I believe too which is unfair on them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 15:04:21 GMT
But what does networker93 do in Downe with no oyster or no credit?
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Post by IanF on Apr 14, 2013 15:10:41 GMT
But what does networker93 do in Downe with no oyster or no credit? Buy an oyster card you can get them from anywhere that tops them up.
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Post by 52000 on Apr 14, 2013 15:27:37 GMT
At the moment most people may not have a contactless card. In the future maybe this would be a good idea. but at the moment cashless should just stay in Zone 1 and 2.
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Post by M1104 on Apr 14, 2013 15:30:17 GMT
The only time cashless buses have actually worked in London is from 23:45hrs New Years Eve into daybreak New Years Day. If we can get Holsten Pills to sponser the buses throughout the rest of the time then the scheme will work. ;D
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Post by snoggle on Apr 14, 2013 15:30:30 GMT
What the... So if I lived in, say Downe, and I don't have an Oyster card, does this mean I have to walk for an hour to buy a bus ticket! I would guess that TfL are waiting to see how well contactless bank card use builds up. Many, but obviously not all, people will have use of such a card. This is an alternative to Oyster for irregular users and charges the Oyster, rather than cash, fare. Clearly the point you make is one which TfL will have to provide convincing evidence about it. There are obviously a fair number of areas served by TfL bus routes where access to an Oyster equipped station or ticket stop is not possible / easy nor available round the clock. This point was raised, in differing ways, in the TV discussion. The main point was about vulnerable people being left at the roadside but one of the MPs said it was impossible to get hold of Oyster where she lived or even to buy a ticket at her local railway station. Leon made the point that genuinely vulnerable people have the ability to travel but then the TV presenter tried to rip him to shreds by saying that was leaving people at the bus driver's decision making. Leon responded by saying drivers make those decisions already on a daily basis and pointed out that some people are just trying to get a free ride when they can afford to pay. Looking at how the presenter reacted I can see the BBC going off to dig around on that issue to find cases where London bus drivers "get it wrong" (whatever that means). It'll be BBC London's version of those tedious local newspaper reports of ""mum, buggy and screaming babies" or "poor lonely school kid" left in dark, dangerous street at prey of thugs and murderers by evil bus company and uncaring bus driver" which never quite tell the whole story. When I was on a bus yesterday a young woman got on with her parents. Her Oyster was not registering at all and she was arguing that the card had a bus pass on it. Eventually some money was found by her mum - I was on the front seat and did point out that if they had a compatible bank card they could pay a cheaper fare. They seemed astonished about this facility when I told them about it. I suspect TfL need to do a lot more in terms of publicity to let the general public know the bank card facility works as an alternative to cash if their Oyster does not work for some reason. Obviously it will be more attractive when capping is made available for CBCs. I expect TfL will have to run a public consultation before removing the cash fare system from buses.
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