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Post by snoggle on Jul 6, 2014 23:00:36 GMT
Any passengers who is complaining about cashless is at their own fault because they haven't even took part of the consultation early this year and never noticed the constant announcements which played inside the bus, and never looked at the posters at bus shelters about the problem. Also it's not London Buses going cashless, the buses in Kenya is going cashless as well. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28106004That's a very uncharitable view from you given some of the posts you've made in the past. Most people have no idea that TfL consult or where to find consultations or even if they did they have better things to do with their time. I drafted a long response to the consultation but missed the deadline by about 30 mins as I was busy for a couple of days and only remembered too late for me to send it in. It was entirely obvious that TfL would get their way regardless of what people said - I can't recall a public consultation where Boris had the final say and where he's stopped TfL's plans.
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Post by Nathan on Jul 6, 2014 23:03:38 GMT
Oh come on! People have had fair warning now (and fair is putting it lightly)! Companies have literally littered buses with stickers telling them about it. As well as announcements playing frequently. People have NO RIGHT to complain. Sorry but I'm going to disagree [1]. If you are tuned in to the web and social media like Twitter then yes you will have been bombarded with tweets and messages. I've been deliberately keeping my eyes open for weeks on the W11 which I use the most. I've heard the message on the PA less than 10 times in total and about 40% of those I couldn't hear properly. There have been no posters on the bus or any hand made notices. A lady paid cash last Thursday and didn't get any little red card from the driver but I have to wonder if she could have read it given her ethnicity. One thing that I find genuinely surprising is the apparent lack of foreign language info about this change. Clearly the English language has to be the main medium on the TfL site but given London's mix of nationalities and languages who live, work and visit I am surprised there has not been some info in a spread of languages about the change. It is actually important that everyone knows that the "safety net" of cash payment has been removed by TfL. [1] no surprise there, says Nathan under his breath. Actually, you raise a very fair point, Snoggle. My experiences over the past few weeks have been somewhat different to yours though. I've been travelling to Lewisham/Catford a lot recently and given that those areas receive a high demand for public transport, the message has been delivered quite clearly. One example of this was when I boarded a 136 to find stickers scattered all over the driver cab door, and all over the seats downstairs. To be that was a pretty clear message. Another example is when I boarded the 185 and there were loads of stickers covering the oyster card reader. No one could ignore something like that! But to be fair, for the minority of people who can't understand English properly, you can't really avoid the problem of them getting upset after this change. Hopefully they'll know via word of mouth. And cash fares was never really a "safety net" anyway. If someone only has a £10 note on them, chances are they won't even be allowed on anyway. So what's the point? I'm glad its all gone
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Post by Connor on Jul 6, 2014 23:06:18 GMT
Any passengers who is complaining about cashless is at their own fault because they haven't even took part of the consultation early this year and never noticed the constant announcements which played inside the bus, and never looked at the posters at bus shelters about the problem. Also it's not London Buses going cashless, the buses in Kenya is going cashless as well. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-281060041) the Kenya thing is not exactly relevant in the cashless bus debate is it? 2) it's easy for you to sit down at your desk and criticise others (since you know a bit about buses). But say you were coming down from Hull into St Pancras for a day of shopping at Oxford Street, how the hell are you suppose to know how about the whole cashless thing. Would you not agree it would be alienating to those who come to London rarely?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 23:12:14 GMT
]That's a very uncharitable view from you given some of the posts you've made in the past. Most people have no idea that TfL consult or where to find consultations or even if they did they have better things to do with their time. I drafted a long response to the consultation but missed the deadline by about 30 mins as I was busy for a couple of days and only remembered too late for me to send it in. It was entirely obvious that TfL would get their way regardless of what people said - I can't recall a public consultation where Boris had the final say and where he's stopped TfL's plans. Sorry if I offended some people. Well I am not blaming it on all people but it's some people. Well few weeks ago when i saw a passenger paying by cash, when he goes down the saloon of the bus i quickly asked him "excuse me, are you aware that cashless is being implemented on 6th July?" and he answered yes and gone upstairs. Well it's some people that are aware of it. But the visitors from Home Counties or rest of Britain is not aware of cashless on London Buses because they are very used to the fare stage cash system which their bus services provide. But there are percentage of passengers support cashless because they don't want to get held up on the bus over change and it also reduce robberies as well. It's a big divide now between bus services in London and rest of Britain over the fare system. If some deregulated bus operators decided to operate a route that goes into one of the towns of Outer London areas, but it would make passengers decide to use cash fare from a commercial bus service or oyster/contactless on a more frequent bus service operated by London Buses. It'll be interesting to see about this.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 6, 2014 23:15:23 GMT
Actually, you raise a very fair point, Snoggle. My experiences over the past few weeks have been somewhat different to yours though. I've been travelling to Lewisham/Catford a lot recently and given that those areas receive a high demand for public transport, the message has been delivered quite clearly. One example of this was when I boarded a 136 to find stickers scattered all over the driver cab door, and all over the seats downstairs. To be that was a pretty clear message. Another example is when I boarded the 185 and there were loads of stickers covering the oyster card reader. No one could ignore something like that! But to be fair, for the minority of people who can't understand English properly, you can't really avoid the problem of them getting upset after this change. Hopefully they'll know via word of mouth. And cash fares was never really a "safety net" anyway. If someone only has a £10 note on them, chances are they won't even be allowed on anyway. So what's the point? I'm glad its all gone What's been clear from comments on here is that there has been a vastly different experience across London. The only red card I've seen is on a photo! I've not seen one handed out, left on a seat or stuck anywhere. I use the 69 and 97 a fair bit and they're some of the busiest suburban routes in London with a wide ethnic mix of passengers - not a sausage in terms of info other than "cats" over the PA Also nothing on the 123 either. One of my long standing concerns about this change has been "consistency". The experience with the run up to the change shows up the complete lack of consistency of approach across London. Goodness knows which approach was the one that TfL wanted to happen. If we were to translate the lack of consistency in publicity into the potential treatment of "distressed" passengers then there's a big problem. I see on another group that no one knows what to do about transfer tickets between buses and Tramlink in New Addington. With buses going cashless and Trams not accepting bank cards there are gaps in the system and apparently there are a number of people in New Addington who used to pay cash on the bus for a transfer ticket but now won't be able to. You can, of course, pay cash if starting on Tramlink.
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Post by Nathan on Jul 6, 2014 23:20:18 GMT
Actually, you raise a very fair point, Snoggle. My experiences over the past few weeks have been somewhat different to yours though. I've been travelling to Lewisham/Catford a lot recently and given that those areas receive a high demand for public transport, the message has been delivered quite clearly. One example of this was when I boarded a 136 to find stickers scattered all over the driver cab door, and all over the seats downstairs. To be that was a pretty clear message. Another example is when I boarded the 185 and there were loads of stickers covering the oyster card reader. No one could ignore something like that! But to be fair, for the minority of people who can't understand English properly, you can't really avoid the problem of them getting upset after this change. Hopefully they'll know via word of mouth. And cash fares was never really a "safety net" anyway. If someone only has a £10 note on them, chances are they won't even be allowed on anyway. So what's the point? I'm glad its all gone One of my long standing concerns about this change has been "consistency". The experience with the run up to the change shows up the complete lack of consistency of approach across London. Goodness knows which approach was the one that TfL wanted to happen. If we were to translate the lack of consistency in publicity into the potential treatment of "distressed" passengers then there's a big problem. Even though I think that the warnings given in the surrounding areas I live in have been informing people well, this whole thing could have been planned a lot better. Like you mentioned, there was lack of consistency. Some companies giving it their all, but then some others not as much. But there's nothing that can be done now. We just have to wait and see what happens next. Any passengers who is complaining about cashless is at their own fault because they haven't even took part of the consultation early this year and never noticed the constant announcements which played inside the bus, and never looked at the posters at bus shelters about the problem. Also it's not London Buses going cashless, the buses in Kenya is going cashless as well. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28106004But say you were coming down from Hull into St Pancras for a day of shopping at Oxford Street, how the hell are you suppose to know how about the whole cashless thing. Would you not agree it would be alienating to those who come to London rarely? Aren't there those Visitor Oyster things or something? And if not, then you can buy a travelcard from any station and any newsagents. There are other options than just cash...
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Post by Steve80 on Jul 7, 2014 2:17:31 GMT
Hmmm on my short 10 minute journey home from the pub last night at 23:45, I counted 8 people pay cash. These are the people its really going to hit, irregular users late at night. I do think this is a mistake and I feel for drivers and passengers. Say Ive had a few an not got enough money on my oyster? My bank card was issued last year but is not contactless. Would I be considered vulnerable? Remember TfL do offer the auto top up on your oyster card online. You can set it so if it goes under £5 or £10 etc it tops up. But it only tops up automatically if you scan your card on the Tube/DLR/Tram or the Overground. So, if you got on a bus and scan your oyster then it will simply take your fare without topping up automatically.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 7:02:55 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2014 8:42:53 GMT
Remember TfL do offer the auto top up on your oyster card online. You can set it so if it goes under £5 or £10 etc it tops up. But it only tops up automatically if you scan your card on the Tube/DLR/Tram or the Overground. So, if you got on a bus and scan your oyster then it will simply take your fare without topping up automatically. You have to collect the "top up" instruction at a rail gate or validator *the first time* after you've set up the instruction on a card you already hold or buy at a station or Ticket Stop. After that the card will top up at any reader if the minimum balance level is reached. Clearly for some people who never make rail journeys of any sort this is a pain and inconvenient. However I am sure that if you order a new Oyster Card on line you can ask for the auto top up to be set on the card and you *don't* have to do the first "activate" transaction at a rail mode gate / validator. This option may be more convenient for some people who live away from the rail network and who need an Oyster card. I did just go on to Oyster Online and it does ask if you want auto top up set - the only stipulation is you add a minimum of £10 PAYG as the first transaction. You then choose how much to top up by.
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Post by londonbusboy on Jul 7, 2014 8:52:30 GMT
Thanks for the corrections
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Post by sid on Jul 7, 2014 9:28:36 GMT
Oh come on! People have had fair warning now (and fair is putting it lightly)! Companies have literally littered buses with stickers telling them about it. As well as announcements playing frequently. People have NO RIGHT to complain. Don't be ridiculous, what about the occasional bus user who hasn't been on a bus recently? What about visitors from abroad? There are a whole host of scenario's which could result in passengers having to pay cash................what is that slogan about every journey counting? I might add that I've seen very few notices on buses just the announcements which people may or may not listen too. Just because enthusiasts know all about it don't assume that Joe Public who probably has far more important things to worry about will be 'up to speed' on it all
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Post by Nathan on Jul 7, 2014 9:48:58 GMT
Oh come on! People have had fair warning now (and fair is putting it lightly)! Companies have literally littered buses with stickers telling them about it. As well as announcements playing frequently. People have NO RIGHT to complain. Don't be ridiculous, what about the occasional bus user who hasn't been on a bus recently? What about visitors from abroad? There are a whole host of scenario's which could result in passengers having to pay cash................what is that slogan about every journey counting? I might add that I've seen very few notices on buses just the announcements which people may or may not listen too:'( Well we will just have to hope that the occasional user knows about this change through word of mouth (which is a very good marketing strategy actually). And even for visitors from abroad, they can use a travelcard or visitor oyster. And regarding your last point, I remember being on a bus where one passenger actually got annoyed when hearing the announcement because they heard it so many times. So I'm sure people would have heard it at some point.
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Post by sid on Jul 7, 2014 10:11:15 GMT
Don't be ridiculous, what about the occasional bus user who hasn't been on a bus recently? What about visitors from abroad? There are a whole host of scenario's which could result in passengers having to pay cash................what is that slogan about every journey counting? I might add that I've seen very few notices on buses just the announcements which people may or may not listen too:'( Well we will just have to hope that the occasional user knows about this change through word of mouth (which is a very good marketing strategy actually). And even for visitors from abroad, they can use a travelcard or visitor oyster. And regarding your last point, I remember being on a bus where one passenger actually got annoyed when hearing the announcement because they heard it so many times. So I'm sure people would have heard it at some point. Just imagine how drivers must feel having to listen to these announccements over and over again.....................to be honest if I were just an ordinary passengers and didn't read forums like this then I probably wouldn't be aware of it and I should think there are many people who will be the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 10:18:41 GMT
I live in Yorkshire now and return to London about once a month ... If I had not been a member of a forum like this I would never have known things have changed.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jul 7, 2014 10:29:24 GMT
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