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Post by vjaska on Oct 4, 2013 12:24:20 GMT
But why is someone loosing their money an onus on the bus driver? Lets put aside the vulnerable persons thing for a moment, as I said before if you got to the front of a queue in a shop and said "oh crap I have lost my wallet" - you try saying "I'll just take this shopping for free this time mate" - it won't happen, expect to see the cells if you just walk off with it. You could say when anyone is refused travel or kicked off a bus "what happens" at any time of day - if someone is knocked down by a car 10 minutes later do you think that is the drivers fault? These sorts of attitudes annoy drivers, often the same types people who are saying that people should be given a free ride if they can't pay for the service in the accepted way are usually the same people complaining in a tabloid newspaper way about "rough youths travelling for free/causing trouble" or "drivers letting people on for free when I have paid x amount for my travel pass" or wondering why fares are going up or services not expanded ad infinitum I don't see the connection to food shopping, as far as I'm aware all supermarkets still accept cash, and BTW shoplifters rarely "see the cells" nowadays, they are usually issued with a fixed penalty notice. At Iceland, shoplifters aren't given fixed penalty notices - first time offender gets banned from the store, if they ignore that, the police arrest them. Seems different shops have different policies on shoplifting consequences.
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Post by snowman on Oct 4, 2013 12:41:05 GMT
The problem is TfL have gone a year or two early, there just aren't enough contactless cards yet as they are only normally issued when old cards expire.
In the interim a no change policy should be implemented and if people want to offer £20 that's their choice.
The alternative has to be overhaul the oyster top up network, its no good saying there are thousands of places when some are only few shops apart and both don't open evenings. TfL need to offload some and use the hefty commission they pay out to oyster sales to run some machines themselves across the gaps in network.
Obviously cross border routes need to keep accepting cash as oyster top up places are rare outside zone6
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 12:53:34 GMT
I often see people being taken away and placed in a police vehicle at my local Asda. Why would the police want to take them anywhere if all that was going to happen was a Fixed Penalty Notice?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 14:26:00 GMT
I often see people being taken away and placed in a police vehicle at my local Asda. Why would the police want to take them anywhere if all that was going to happen was a Fixed Penalty Notice? I can only assume they are repeat offenders or have no ID The whole idea of a fixed penalty is to avoid clogging up the system with relatively minor offenders
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 14:27:47 GMT
I don't see the connection to food shopping, as far as I'm aware all supermarkets still accept cash, and BTW shoplifters rarely "see the cells" nowadays, they are usually issued with a fixed penalty notice. Obviously if somebody is refused travel and subsequently knocked down by a car ten minutes later it isn't the bus drivers fault, however the two things are inevitably linked. There are so many scenario's where this cashless idea will cause problems, supposing somebody goes out for a walk in the country and the weather turns nasty so they decide to wait for the R8 bus back to civilisation only to find the driver cannot accept their cash. Well there are no Oyster/top up facilities out in the sticks so the driver has little choice but to give them a free ride If (probably when) this happens there will be publicity about the change - if people ignore that then its not the drivers fault is it. I'm puzzled about your opinion that drivers should give free rides so readily - you do know that drivers can get in trouble with their company if people are caught by revenue on the bus and they say "the driver said it was okay for me to travel without payment for x,y,z reason" - very different to saying to revenue that you tried to make someone pay and they refused for example. Ultimately if people want to use cash when if it is is no longer an accepted payment for the service then that's life - people will adapt and cope I'm sure.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 14:49:41 GMT
I said the driver would have little choice but to allow them to ride for free in such circumstances
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Post by rambo on Oct 6, 2013 18:50:28 GMT
I had a women get on the bus the other day with a £20 note, I asked her if she had a contactless card, which she did, I explained to her how she could use it and she did, she was very impressed!
But, what i found strange was this; I picked her up outside romford police station, and she looked like a solicitor, she was well spoken and carrying a bundle of documents, and yet she did not know she could use a contactless card, even though there has been loads of advertising telling people that they can. Next time she uses a bus she will remember.
The same applies to cashless, once people get used to it, it will work.
The whole 'what if someone needs to get to the hospital' blah blah, is, imo, tosh. Do people really think we should keep a system that is hardly used and costs a fortune, just in case. Times change.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 6, 2013 21:03:48 GMT
I had a women get on the bus the other day with a £20 note, I asked her if she had a contactless card, which she did, I explained to her how she could use it and she did, she was very impressed! But, what i found strange was this; I picked her up outside romford police station, and she looked like a solicitor, she was well spoken and carrying a bundle of documents, and yet she did not know she could use a contactless card, even though there has been loads of advertising telling people that they can. Next time she uses a bus she will remember. The same applies to cashless, once people get used to it, it will work. The whole 'what if someone needs to get to the hospital' blah blah, is, imo, tosh. Do people really think we should keep a system that is hardly used and costs a fortune, just in case. Times change. It isn't tosh though. You just don't wish to acknowledge that there will be some people who end up in difficulty. We already have people who end up in difficulty today when cash payment exists. Why else are there those yellow chits? As a minimum there will be the same level of people of difficulty in the future! All people are arguing about is that there may be some *extra* people in difficulty as a result of the removal of cash payment. Even TfL recognise that risk given the consultation says "existing processes" should be sufficient for the future - it's just that some people don't accept their argument. There was some publicity about contactless payment when it launched but I have not seen any sustained campaign of information / publicity or active marketing. As Steve80 said in another post he was not required to attend a briefing on the system - the company he worked did not make it compulsory. He said it had not dawned on him to ask a passenger if they have a bank card. It seems to me that whoever designed and implemented the briefing process for this important development in payments got it wrong by not ensuring that every bus driver was briefed across all the companies. You did the right thing in prompting your Romford passenger - we just need all drivers to do the same in similar circumstances and for TfL to undertake far more publicity and to re-run a briefing campaign with *all* bus drivers.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 7:44:50 GMT
I had a women get on the bus the other day with a £20 note, I asked her if she had a contactless card, which she did, I explained to her how she could use it and she did, she was very impressed! But, what i found strange was this; I picked her up outside romford police station, and she looked like a solicitor, she was well spoken and carrying a bundle of documents, and yet she did not know she could use a contactless card, even though there has been loads of advertising telling people that they can. Next time she uses a bus she will remember. The same applies to cashless, once people get used to it, it will work. The whole 'what if someone needs to get to the hospital' blah blah, is, imo, tosh. Do people really think we should keep a system that is hardly used and costs a fortune, just in case. Times change. Of course its not tosh, wheelchair ramps are hardly ever used so shall we get rid of them as well? Not everybody has contactless bank cards!
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Post by M1104 on Oct 7, 2013 9:34:17 GMT
Couldn't TfL broadcast the option of contactless bank cards via the ibus system on each bus? They could also bring back television adverts like London Transport/London Buses Limited use to do in the 80s.
Also, many bus stop shelters now have electronic multi-advertising displays which they could use for awareness.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 9:58:54 GMT
Couldn't TfL broadcast the option of contactless bank cards via the ibus system on each bus? They could also bring back television adverts like London Transport/London Buses Limited use to do in the 80s. Also, many bus stop shelters now have electronic multi-advertising displays which they could use for awareness. But how much is all that going to cost?
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Post by M1104 on Oct 7, 2013 10:07:31 GMT
Couldn't TfL broadcast the option of contactless bank cards via the ibus system on each bus? They could also bring back television adverts like London Transport/London Buses Limited use to do in the 80s. Also, many bus stop shelters now have electronic multi-advertising displays which they could use for awareness. But how much is all that going to cost? Okay just the ibus visual/audio display then. That would be the most effective option against the costs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 14:24:15 GMT
Of course its not tosh, wheelchair ramps are hardly ever used so shall we get rid of them as well? Not everybody has contactless bank cards! Because the law says that disabled persons should have equal access to facilities. As I said before. wanting to pay in a format that is not accepted by a company is not discrimination, if this comes in and an individual doesn't want to get an oyster or use a contactless card then don't use the buses in London.
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Post by rambo on Oct 7, 2013 15:56:10 GMT
Makes you wonder how people outside of london manage when the buses stop running.............
My mum lives in a small village in hampshire, 1 bus per hour from 6 am till 8pm, iirc. Should the bus company be made to run a service through the night 'just in case'?
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Post by ServerKing on Oct 7, 2013 16:01:13 GMT
Question: If I pay by card (debit) and Revenue get on the bus, how can they prove I've paid the fare? Can the handheld readers also see card transactions?
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