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Post by M1104 on Aug 29, 2019 20:45:16 GMT
Presumably the N19 will also be LT operated
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Post by george on Aug 29, 2019 20:53:13 GMT
Presumably the N19 will also be LT operated I can not see the 344 stand in clapham being able to take LTs.
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Post by M1104 on Aug 29, 2019 21:05:36 GMT
Presumably the N19 will also be LT operated I can not see the 344 stand in clapham being able to take LTs. It could use the nearby 49/337 stand
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Post by rif153 on Aug 29, 2019 21:14:58 GMT
I'm glad a high profile route is getting the LTs thou as in many ways the LTs still give a key central route some pride. Even though I don't like LTs, and I'm not happy about the 19's LT conversion, I do think LTs suit Central London better than routes like the 267. On the flip side, there are already more than enough LTs in Central London imo
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Post by va59 on Sept 10, 2019 7:08:32 GMT
I'm glad a high profile route is getting the LTs thou as in many ways the LTs still give a key central route some pride. Even though I don't like LTs, and I'm not happy about the 19's LT conversion, I do think LTs suit Central London better than routes like the 267. On the flip side, there are already more than enough LTs in Central London imo Out of interest, what is your issue with the LT’s? I don’t get this hatred for them by some, yes, they will never be as iconic as the old Routemaster but they at least give London some sort of identity which differentiates from other cities? What, should we all go for the standardised or like the ugly new(ish) Wrightbus? No thanks.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 10, 2019 9:43:11 GMT
Even though I don't like LTs, and I'm not happy about the 19's LT conversion, I do think LTs suit Central London better than routes like the 267. On the flip side, there are already more than enough LTs in Central London imo Out of interest, what is your issue with the LT’s? I don’t get this hatred for them by some, yes, they will never be as iconic as the old Routemaster but they at least give London some sort of identity which differentiates from other cities? What, should we all go for the standardised or like the ugly new(ish) Wrightbus? No thanks. London has an identity unique to it already - it doesn't need a vehicle to achieve this especially one riddled with issues. The conventional Wrightbus vehicles aren't particularly nice to look at either but at least the passenger experience is far better and that's always more important than the obsession with so called unique vehicle identity.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 10:53:08 GMT
Even though I don't like LTs, and I'm not happy about the 19's LT conversion, I do think LTs suit Central London better than routes like the 267. On the flip side, there are already more than enough LTs in Central London imo Out of interest, what is your issue with the LT’s? I don’t get this hatred for them by some, yes, they will never be as iconic as the old Routemaster but they at least give London some sort of identity which differentiates from other cities? What, should we all go for the standardised or like the ugly new(ish) Wrightbus? No thanks. I don't get it either, there are a few (self appointed!) experts in the bus enthusiast fraternity who insisted that such a bus wasn't possible and would never see the light of day etc who haven't enjoyed their humble pie. There are also traditionalists who resent it being called a Routemaster although for me that's a minor issue.
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Post by george on Sept 10, 2019 11:13:57 GMT
Out of interest, what is your issue with the LT’s? I don’t get this hatred for them by some, yes, they will never be as iconic as the old Routemaster but they at least give London some sort of identity which differentiates from other cities? What, should we all go for the standardised or like the ugly new(ish) Wrightbus? No thanks. I don't get it either, there are a few (self appointed!) experts in the bus enthusiast fraternity who insisted that such a bus wasn't possible and would never see the light of day etc who haven't enjoyed their humble pie. There are also traditionalists who resent it being called a Routemaster although for me that's a minor issue. Many reasons why people don't like the LT but let's start with the cost. The first 600 buses cost 212.7M which is £354,500 per bus, the next 600 had a slight reduction at £349,500 per bus but let's compare that to the cost of a normal conventional £190,000. Now to the design faults, despite the very high cost of the bus not all but most have very bad air cooling systems just take a look at @tflbusalerts on twitter on a hot day and you will see that nearly all the commments are from disgruntled passengers and finally let's not forgot the amount of money TfL has lost by having open boarding. So that's why I'm not a fan of the LTs. *source for figures New Statements.
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Post by E279 on Sept 10, 2019 11:21:20 GMT
I don't get it either, there are a few (self appointed!) experts in the bus enthusiast fraternity who insisted that such a bus wasn't possible and would never see the light of day etc who haven't enjoyed their humble pie. There are also traditionalists who resent it being called a Routemaster although for me that's a minor issue. Many reasons why people don't like the LT but let's start with the cost. The first 600 buses cost 212.7M which is £354,500 per bus, the next 600 had a slight reduction at £349,500 per bus but let's compare that to the cost of a normal conventional £190,000. Now to the design faults, despite the very high cost of the bus not all but most have very bad air cooling systems just take a look at @tflbusalerts on twitter on a hot day and you will see that nearly all the commments are from disgruntled passengers and finally let's not forgot the amount of money TfL has lost by having open boarding. So that's why I'm not a fan of the LTs. *source for figures New Statements. Personally quite a fan of LTs, the cost is the cost at the end of the day, they’ve been brought so I don’t see why the bus itself should be disliked due to the cost. As for Air Cooling, yes it could be better but they certainly aren’t the worst for Air cooling. The overal design is really nice and with a refurb for new contracts, they may perform better with air cooling providing that is something looked at as no doubt TFL have had complaints about air cooling.
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Post by george on Sept 10, 2019 11:30:02 GMT
Many reasons why people don't like the LT but let's start with the cost. The first 600 buses cost 212.7M which is £354,500 per bus, the next 600 had a slight reduction at £349,500 per bus but let's compare that to the cost of a normal conventional £190,000. Now to the design faults, despite the very high cost of the bus not all but most have very bad air cooling systems just take a look at @tflbusalerts on twitter on a hot day and you will see that nearly all the commments are from disgruntled passengers and finally let's not forgot the amount of money TfL has lost by having open boarding. So that's why I'm not a fan of the LTs. *source for figures New Statements. Personally quite a fan of LTs, the cost is the cost at the end of the day, they’ve been brought so I don’t see why the bus itself should be disliked due to the cost. As for Air Cooling, yes it could be better but they certainly aren’t the worst for Air cooling. The overal design is really nice and with a refurb for new contracts, they may perform better with air cooling providing that is something looked at as no doubt TFL have had complaints about air cooling. Of course they have been brought now so nothing they can do about the cost but surely someone at TfL could have seen that the cost was very expensive when they ordered them, there's nothing wrong with any other conventional double decker so why spend so much money on an LT? I agree the design of the LT isn't bad at all so not all my points about the LTs are bad ones.
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Post by M1104 on Sept 10, 2019 11:31:31 GMT
I don't get it either, there are a few (self appointed!) experts in the bus enthusiast fraternity who insisted that such a bus wasn't possible and would never see the light of day etc who haven't enjoyed their humble pie. There are also traditionalists who resent it being called a Routemaster although for me that's a minor issue. Many reasons why people don't like the LT but let's start with the cost. The first 600 buses cost 212.7M which is £354,500 per bus, the next 600 had a slight reduction at £349,500 per bus but let's compare that to the cost of a normal conventional £190,000. Now to the design faults, despite the very high cost of the bus not all but most have very bad air cooling systems just take a look at @tflbusalerts on twitter on a hot day and you will see that nearly all the commments are from disgruntled passengers and finally let's not forgot the amount of money TfL has lost by having open boarding. So that's why I'm not a fan of the LTs. *source for figures New Statements. Air cooling systems in general are not very good on most¹ british-spec'd buses as the powers that be don't want to spend money on proper air cons that European/American/Asian variant buses are equipped with (seeing as our hot summers are not always guaranteed like theirs). ¹ - a few hit-and-miss good ones on some regular buses, dependent on maintenance
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Post by snowman on Sept 10, 2019 11:36:00 GMT
Out of interest, what is your issue with the LT’s? I don’t get this hatred for them by some, yes, they will never be as iconic as the old Routemaster but they at least give London some sort of identity which differentiates from other cities? What, should we all go for the standardised or like the ugly new(ish) Wrightbus? No thanks. I don't get it either, there are a few (self appointed!) experts in the bus enthusiast fraternity who insisted that such a bus wasn't possible and would never see the light of day etc who haven't enjoyed their humble pie. There are also traditionalists who resent it being called a Routemaster although for me that's a minor issue. I confess being one of those who believed it wasn't possible to engineer what Boris wanted within the 18t weight limit, which actually proved to be true. The passenger capacity was reduced, and some other parts skimped such as cheap batteries and not providing heat insulation from the engine to get an operational bus that got too hot inside, and struggled to operate on battery power. Yes, 1000 got built, and whilst it might be good to look at, its engineering quality is a few notches below world class, and its reduced capacity (for its length) not helpful. I guess if you are interested in quality and reliability rather than looks, probably in the hate it camp.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 10, 2019 11:54:56 GMT
Bearing in mind thou back in 2012 the cost of a hybrid DD was around 300k hence why award were being made still for only part hybrids (routes 19 and 22) so the 354k wasn't so astronomical.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 10, 2019 13:25:11 GMT
Many reasons why people don't like the LT but let's start with the cost. The first 600 buses cost 212.7M which is £354,500 per bus, the next 600 had a slight reduction at £349,500 per bus but let's compare that to the cost of a normal conventional £190,000. Now to the design faults, despite the very high cost of the bus not all but most have very bad air cooling systems just take a look at @tflbusalerts on twitter on a hot day and you will see that nearly all the commments are from disgruntled passengers and finally let's not forgot the amount of money TfL has lost by having open boarding. So that's why I'm not a fan of the LTs. *source for figures New Statements. Personally quite a fan of LTs, the cost is the cost at the end of the day, they’ve been brought so I don’t see why the bus itself should be disliked due to the cost. As for Air Cooling, yes it could be better but they certainly aren’t the worst for Air cooling. The overal design is really nice and with a refurb for new contracts, they may perform better with air cooling providing that is something looked at as no doubt TFL have had complaints about air cooling. They cost far more than conventional vehicles, had less capacity and far more issues than conventional buses. You say they aren’t the worst for air cooling but in my experience, I’ve never been on buses hotter. In fact, they are hotter than the Tube lines during the hot weather which is absolutely disgusting. I really hope they do sort the air cooling during their refurb because they’ve had tons of complaints about it but other than fitting sliding windows which haven’t worked despite them working on other types over the years, they’ve done nothing about it. No doubt I’d be called a hater or something childish by certain people because negative opinions are not allowed unless it suits the individuals involved.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 14:55:33 GMT
Bearing in mind thou back in 2012 the cost of a hybrid DD was around 300k hence why award were being made still for only part hybrids (routes 19 and 22) so the 354k wasn't so astronomical. I was going to make a similar point, the cost is nowhere near as astronomical as some people would have us believe. The capacity in practice is much the same as any similar double decker and the three door layout obviously reduces seating capacity. From a passenger perspective I use them quite regularly and I don't have any problem with them.
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