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Post by snoggle on Mar 16, 2018 0:15:45 GMT
I can't give you chapter and verse on those Worst 10 routes, but I don't believe it was based on complaints to assembly members, but to London Travelwatch or whatever it is, or was, called. The 343 was top of the list iirc, and the only non South London route was the 38, at about no. 9, and this when it operated at up to every 2 minutes! It was around the time that the BBC were running a series on bus operation and other London traffic matters, so a few years ago, but I do remember there was footage of people waiting for 343s for up to an hour before being able to board, which I think was also around the time Peter Hendy made his (in)famous remark about would-be passengers rioting if sufficient buses weren't available to get them to work.
When my father took early retirement in the 1970s, he became unpaid Secretary of a charity in the Bermondsey area, at a time when it was decidedly untrendy, and on occasion I would meet him for lunch. The supposed bus service was incredibly unreliable : you never waited for a 42, because they were as tare as hen's teeth, the 78 similarly was able to use the opening of Tower Bridge as a reason/excuse for great gaps in service, whereas being part operated out of Dalston Garage was its main problem. The 1, which was the route I should have used to get there, in theory, was operated in two sections, but Bermondsey was in the overlap and, in theory, had a 9 minute offpeak service, alternately to Waterloo and Marylebone. In practice, half hour gaps were followed by three buses, but New Cross buses wouldn't overtake Catford buses and vice versa. 'Control' on the route might have occurred at a couple of the termini, but was otherwise non-existent, and I worked for the organisation at the time. Later on, the 1 came to be worked by East Thames Buses, not because it had been a Durham District Services or Harris Bus route but because no-one wanted to operate it! That was the "Route Masters Running London" series. It featured the 343 debacle with people shouting at TfL reps and Val Shawcross. The series gets repeated on London Live every so often - I saw this particular episode just the other week. The people were waiting at a stop in North Peckham for about 35 mins, not 1 hour but either time is completely unacceptable. Mr Hendy tended to make remarks like that when he was in "maximum lobbying mode" with the government over funding. It guaranteed headlines but I do think he went a bit far sometimes given that no one did riot and buses are being cut and still no one is rioting. As I have said before people just shrug their shoulders and find another way to travel or change jobs if they can do so to avoid transport woes. The North Peckham issue has been resolved by the extension of the 136 to E&C although TfL have cut the 343's frequency. I do wonder what on earth would happen today if the same problem existed - possibly nothing given the demands for cuts. This looks like the data about bus route "complaints" you're referring to. It was a self selected set of issues raised by people writing to Assembly members. It dates from 2013. www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/gla_migrate_files_destination/Site%20visits%20and%20survey%20results_0.pdfAll of the papers and reports are accessible via www.london.gov.uk/about-us/about-us/london-assembly/london-assembly-publications/bus-services-londonYou might even see some idiot (ahem!) telling the Transport Committee (in the evidence section) his ideas more double deck route conversions, on better and more open consultation, greater transparency about route change plans, more engagement with the private sector to bring in innovation and other such mad ideas. 5 years on and very little has been done. (sigh). To be fair the 1970s were not the best time for London Transport. There were a series of well known fundamental problems with management, unions, vehicle fleets, maintenance, fares. You name it there was a problem as I'm sure you know better than me. I really do think that today's network performance is light years ahead of anything that transpired in the 1970s. Today is not perfect but it is not the disaster zone that pertained in some parts of London in the 70s. I think people did want to run route 1 - just not at the price that LT wanted to pay. You get what you pay for is a reasonable adage.
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Post by redexpress on Mar 16, 2018 3:11:48 GMT
Later on, the 1 came to be worked by East Thames Buses, not because it had been a Durham District Services or Harris Bus route but because no-one wanted to operate it! I wouldn't say that no-one wanted to operate the 1. My recollection is that this was connected with ETB's move from Ash Grove to Bermondsey (in order to make room for the 38's bendies at AG). To facilitate the move, the 1 was removed from the tendering programme and handed to ETB, while ETB's 128 and 150 were put out to tender in its place. This was probably a good deal for First, who would have had a tough time retaining the 1 (which they'd been running from faraway Hackney), but were much better placed to bid for the 128 and 150 (and were successful with the 150). Had ETB not taken on the 1 I'm sure both Go-Ahead and Travel London would have been interested. Travel London were bidding for as much work as they could to fill up Walworth, while Go-Ahead were suffering from Travel London's successes so would certainly have welcomed the 1.
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Post by ServerKing on Mar 16, 2018 17:33:30 GMT
My first journey in ages did not go exactly as planned. Was working in the City today. Had parked the van near Gresham St, near Cheapside, and after walking to the customer on Cheapside, had to go to another site at Curtain Rd (Shoreditch). Jumped on HV227 on the 242, traffic was dense, even Bank Junction was a mess. 149's on diversion past Bank for some reason We finally got moving and the journey was going well until I got off the bus and realised I'd dropped my phone. Do I ring CT and see if the driver can check for it, or give it up as gone forever? It's only a Windows Phone so no worth anything. The moped thief might even hand it back... Fixed the laptop at Curtain Road, rang the previous customer on my private phone in case he had seen it and I had imagined it was lost on the bus. To cut the story short, the person who got on the bus after me, found it, rang a last used number (previous customer). Previous customer then tells me the guy who has the phone text to say he is at a Pret in Shoreditch waiting for me to come collect it! Went and met the guy and he passed it back! It saved a whole lot of aggro of cancelling the phone, sim, updating contacts. Shows there's some decent people out there Return trip to Cheapside to get the van on the next HV I was more careful to stick it in an inside pocket
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Post by snoggle on Mar 16, 2018 20:25:57 GMT
123 - nice ride on VLA6 but punters were confused by the faulty "Bus Stopping" sign not appearing and the bus only having a single bell sound. Lots of worried faces as to whether the bus would stop and frantic bell pushing to no great effect. I told two different people that the bell had rung but they couldn't hear it. Tube Snapped EB3 on the 153 - hooray! Boxy looking thing and as the drivers were handing over I got the distinct impression they don't like it very much. Tube - as if by magic the Vic Line threw a wobbly so on the Picc Line instead. Snaps at South Ken 360 - WES1 at long last! Had a ride up to Royal Albert Hall which was beseiged by thousands of young kids (I assume all school parties for a concert) 360 - WES1 back to Vauxhall. Not terribly busy on this trip. Thought WES1 was decent enough - very airy and spacious but a fair bit of noise from the electric motor. Few snaps at Vauxhall and watching the world go by as I chewed a sandwich. Poor mum was trying to corral her young son who had a death wish of wanting to jump off the pavement and on to the roadway. He was throwing a real tantrum but that's young kids when they want their own way. 77 - nice PVL still in fine fettle up to Waterloo. Few more snaps Tube 97 - just got this. Having lost its diversion in International Way it now can't get past Chobham Academy so turns left at Stratford International and then immediately right and trundles along to join the 241 route and then follows the 158 to Drapers Field. In short it's broadly doing the route it did back in 2012 when it was first extended to Stratford. Not quite sure what the 308 is doing. Overall fairly uneventful travels and a decent selection of new or newish buses in service on various routes. No real surprises apart from a new EH on the 436, EH199 on the 171 and ADH46251 in the 139. Surprised to see that the 436 is carrying reasonable numbers to and from Battersea Park Station so it seems there was a demand for cross Vauxhall travel in that direction.
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Post by busaholic on Mar 16, 2018 21:07:39 GMT
I can't give you chapter and verse on those Worst 10 routes, but I don't believe it was based on complaints to assembly members, but to London Travelwatch or whatever it is, or was, called. The 343 was top of the list iirc, and the only non South London route was the 38, at about no. 9, and this when it operated at up to every 2 minutes! It was around the time that the BBC were running a series on bus operation and other London traffic matters, so a few years ago, but I do remember there was footage of people waiting for 343s for up to an hour before being able to board, which I think was also around the time Peter Hendy made his (in)famous remark about would-be passengers rioting if sufficient buses weren't available to get them to work.
When my father took early retirement in the 1970s, he became unpaid Secretary of a charity in the Bermondsey area, at a time when it was decidedly untrendy, and on occasion I would meet him for lunch. The supposed bus service was incredibly unreliable : you never waited for a 42, because they were as tare as hen's teeth, the 78 similarly was able to use the opening of Tower Bridge as a reason/excuse for great gaps in service, whereas being part operated out of Dalston Garage was its main problem. The 1, which was the route I should have used to get there, in theory, was operated in two sections, but Bermondsey was in the overlap and, in theory, had a 9 minute offpeak service, alternately to Waterloo and Marylebone. In practice, half hour gaps were followed by three buses, but New Cross buses wouldn't overtake Catford buses and vice versa. 'Control' on the route might have occurred at a couple of the termini, but was otherwise non-existent, and I worked for the organisation at the time. Later on, the 1 came to be worked by East Thames Buses, not because it had been a Durham District Services or Harris Bus route but because no-one wanted to operate it! That was the "Route Masters Running London" series. It featured the 343 debacle with people shouting at TfL reps and Val Shawcross. The series gets repeated on London Live every so often - I saw this particular episode just the other week. The people were waiting at a stop in North Peckham for about 35 mins, not 1 hour but either time is completely unacceptable. Mr Hendy tended to make remarks like that when he was in "maximum lobbying mode" with the government over funding. It guaranteed headlines but I do think he went a bit far sometimes given that no one did riot and buses are being cut and still no one is rioting. As I have said before people just shrug their shoulders and find another way to travel or change jobs if they can do so to avoid transport woes. The North Peckham issue has been resolved by the extension of the 136 to E&C although TfL have cut the 343's frequency. I do wonder what on earth would happen today if the same problem existed - possibly nothing given the demands for cuts. This looks like the data about bus route "complaints" you're referring to. It was a self selected set of issues raised by people writing to Assembly members. It dates from 2013. www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/gla_migrate_files_destination/Site%20visits%20and%20survey%20results_0.pdfAll of the papers and reports are accessible via www.london.gov.uk/about-us/about-us/london-assembly/london-assembly-publications/bus-services-londonYou might even see some idiot (ahem!) telling the Transport Committee (in the evidence section) his ideas more double deck route conversions, on better and more open consultation, greater transparency about route change plans, more engagement with the private sector to bring in innovation and other such mad ideas. 5 years on and very little has been done. (sigh). To be fair the 1970s were not the best time for London Transport. There were a series of well known fundamental problems with management, unions, vehicle fleets, maintenance, fares. You name it there was a problem as I'm sure you know better than me. I really do think that today's network performance is light years ahead of anything that transpired in the 1970s. Today is not perfect but it is not the disaster zone that pertained in some parts of London in the 70s. I think people did want to run route 1 - just not at the price that LT wanted to pay. You get what you pay for is a reasonable adage. Thank you for all that info. I admit to not being up to speed with how to track too much down in the internet/digital age, having had no training in it whatsoever, so it's all a bit hit and miss with me; however, I do devour print, and forums like this one provide some good material (a bit of dross, too, but that has to be expected!).
I absolutely take your point that the 1970s weren't a great time for London buses, indeed LT as a whole, though I'd argue that the 1980s were even worse. Remembering those times, I don't want to witness another downward spiral. In some ways, though, the prospect for buses is worse than then because there seems to be no-one of influence who understands buses and bus passengers, probably because they rarely, if ever, use buses themselves. Val Shawcross is quoted in current Buses Magazine enthusing about the X26 and claiming its predecessors had been running for 150 years, whereas the truth is that the 725 Green Line route, which spawned the X26, started in the early 1950s! I don't expect her to know that, but I do expect her to be able to provide an honest answer.
With the 1, I remember reading that no credible bid (or words to that effect) were received, suggesting that London Central, for instance, didn't really want to run it so either didn't bid or put in such a silly one that they knew it couldn't be accepted. I've mentioned here before my theory that the 188 keeps changing operator because it's difficult terrain to operate buses: actually, I think there are similarities to areas not too far away on the other side of the Thames, but there the Canary Wharf and Stratford Olympics effects, combined with more tube and DLR, have eased the situation for buses. I can remember a time, only thirty years ago, when the 53 and its express version, had a frequency matching the 25 on their respective corridors into central London. You could stand in Woolwich at 6 p.m. and watch six or seven 53s arrive from town in the space of about ten minutes, all with plenty of passengers. Some of those passengers may have deserted to the DLR, and even to SouthEastern if really desperate, but traffic congestion will be what's really killed the long distance travel (the 453 helps cater for shorter distances, which don't seem so badly affected).
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Post by busoccultation on Mar 16, 2018 21:10:58 GMT
123 - nice ride on VLA6 but punters were confused by the faulty "Bus Stopping" sign not appearing and the bus only having a single bell sound. Lots of worried faces as to whether the bus would stop and frantic bell pushing to no great effect. I told two different people that the bell had rung but they couldn't hear it. So what was Arriva thinking, as when the last time I have ridden on VLA6 (about 6 months ago) the bells wasn't working at all and they still haven't fixed the bells properly. I could have got a VLA6 few weeks ago on the 123, but I wasn't convinced that the bells had been fixed so I'd opt for the 179 instead given my journey was on the 123/179 parallel section. However Volvo may probably give a better insight with the bells on VLA6 as he have probably driven it on the 123 already.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Mar 16, 2018 21:13:27 GMT
Not quite sure what the 308 is doing. After serving Stratford International, it would turn right into Penny Brookes Street and double back onto itself up to Leyton Road, then would take a left turn to follow the 158 for a bit, then manoeuver around to access this narrow set of roads, navigating Temple Mills Lane, and finally turn right to rejoin the line of route. I wonder how much time that loses. Brings back memories of when it went Leyton though.
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Post by redexpress on Mar 17, 2018 2:46:12 GMT
With the 1, I remember reading that no credible bid (or words to that effect) were received, suggesting that London Central, for instance, didn't really want to run it so either didn't bid or put in such a silly one that they knew it couldn't be accepted.
Sorry to insist on this one, but I have to repeat that the 1 was not put out to tender in 2005. It was removed from the tendering programme and assigned to ETB as already explained, so Go-Ahead and others had no opportunity to bid for it, whether or not they wanted to. It re-entered the tendering programme along with all the other ex-ETB routes when TfL decided to sell off the ETB operation in 2009. I can only remember one instance of a route being assigned to ETB because of a lack of suitable bid - that was the 393, which was put out to tender for a 2002 start, but ended up with ETB, starting in early 2003. After ETB moved to Bermondsey (a long way from the 393 route) it was put out to tender again, and this time Arriva came up with an acceptable bid, taking over in 2007.
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Post by YY13VKP on Mar 18, 2018 15:59:38 GMT
Had quite a journey on Friday for the last day of the 161, 181 and 284 under Metrobus! It started off as an enjoyable journey, but became a race against time towards the end. Here's what happened: Walked to Kenley Station Train to Norwood Junction (455 830) - Managed to get the last fast morning peak service on the Caterham line, unfortunately as it didnt call at New Cross Gate I had to change at Norwood Junction Train to New Cross Gate (377 206) - This train had initially arrived from the depot, and I was thinking it was running light to London Bridge, so it was rather amusing to see people try and open the doors even though it said the train wasn't in service. However it transpired that it was indeed due to work the train I needed to catch, so I boarded it. 21 to Marquis of Granby (LT859) - Had initially wanted to go to Lewisham on this, however it was too busy, and since there was a 436 not far behind, I decided to get off after two stops. 436 to Lewisham Station ( WHV13) - Nothing really to report about this journey, but without realising I travelled on it on its last day at NX before it moved to MG the next day with route 1. Snapped some of the buses at Lewisham Bus Station 181 to Bell Green/Sainsbury's ( 215) - As the OmniTown in front ( 603) had gone mechanical, I was treated to this ex Croydon machine, and especially since I had sister 214 on the 359 the previous day, it was a good substitute for an OmniTown. However as the objective was to ride an OmniTown, since I haven't had one in London (had CY's 623 on the 409 once), I decided to go halfway on it. The 181 is quite an interesting route, and reminds me of the 455 in some places as it does go round the houses a little bit. The bus became quite busy after Lewisham Town Centre and when we got to Catford 181 to Grove Park Bus Station ( 610) - Was good to finally get a London spec OmniTown for the rest of the journey to Grove Park. This part of the 181 was relatively quiet, and while I was filming the route, I noticed a convoy of Stagecoach Enviro 200MMC's going down Downham Way, on their way to Kangley Bridge Road garage from West Ham. The bus sounded brilliant and I am going to miss these buses around London. I believe the only Scania single decks in service in London can now be found on route 293, which I will do once the weather warms up! Walked to Barring Road/Coopers Lane, as the 284 stop closest to Grove Park Bus Station (St Augustine's Church) was closed! 284 to Grove Park Cemetery ( 756) - Was good to get a long Metrobus Enviro 200 again. Think one of MB's operating managers was driving it as he mentioned to a fellow enthusiast that he was a manager and was "watching all the rest of the 284 drivers" . He also mentioned that the 161, 181 and 284 were lost purely down to the opening of RR and Go-Ahead exceeding the 25% limit, which was interesting, especially as the tender result also shows that Stagecoach bidded cheaper. Waited at Grove Park, and while I did, along came new Stagecoach MMC 36685 route learning the 284! 284 to Lewisham Station ( 754) - Remember seeing this in Kenley on Rail Replacement before Metrobus took over the 434 in June 2013, so was pleased to see this come from the depot to work my trip. I spoke to the driver before we left, and he told me how he started his career and what was next for him when the 284 left. He was a fairly new driver and had been working at Orpington from the start of his career, but as a result of the losses, he was placed onto the 172 rota at NX, so that's where he was off to next. He also told me that he was due to drive the first 172 under Go-Ahead the next morning! However this trip was rather eventful. Shortly after leaving Grove Park, a woman wanted to leave the bus and the driver was stationary at a stop, but for some reason he did not open the rear doors and called iBus instead, as there was a mechanical MCV ahead. The woman kept pressing the bell and asking the driver to let her off but the driver didn't respond, even though another passenger told him and we continued. When we stopped at the next stop the woman went up to the driver and started asking why the driver didn't open the door. I couldn't really hear what he said but he apologised and opened the door for the woman to alight, but the woman said "No no, I don't need it now". What was the point of ringing the bell?! A fellow passenger asked me "What is wrong with this guy", and I simply explained that the driver was talking to the controller about something. We then went onto Grove Park Station and the woman wanted to get off again, but the driver only opened the front door, so she went back to the cab to ask why the rear doors weren't opening. She then got off via the front. Then further down the route at Vanoc Gardens, someone pressed the bell, but the driver drove past the stop, then the passenger rang the bell five times, shouted to the driver "HELLO???" and the driver stopped quickly and let her off... I don't think this was down to the driver's ability, I think there must have been a problem with the "Stop" light on the driver's dash not working correctly. After that, nothing much else happened apart from the driver coming on the PA to inform us that the bus stops in Catford Town Centre were closed. We reached Lewisham and I wished the driver all the best of luck at New Cross. He might need it though, considering the mistakes that were made during this trip, but the bus had just come from the depot, so not entirely sure why the rear doors weren't opened. Tried to find my way to the 108 bus stop in Lewisham. During this, I managed to snap LDP192, and spotted RandomBusesGirl in her natural habitat behind an Abellio Enviro 200 parked on the 484 stand. The driver had no idea she was there...as he was asleep! Did he ever get going? After asking a 21 driver and running through Lewisham shopping centre, I finally found the 108 stop towards Stratford...but it was closed! I tried to flag down the 108 coming, but he didn't stop and told me to go to the next stop. I somehow managed to run and find the next stop just before the bus got there, thanks to traffic. 108 to North Greenwich Bus Station ( MEC1) - Nice to get a refurbished ex Red Arrow Citaro since they left Waterloo, and the first one too! This bus was brilliant and I saw a couple of the trainer MEC's out and about. The route is also very scenic, especially around Blackheath (also finally managed to discover where the 202 terminates). As we got to North Greenwich, I was amazed at how modern the area leading upto the O2 is. The Millennium Village is a must visit in the future for me. All routes heading for North Greenwich have to serve 4 stops within the complex before North Greenwich Bus Station. If only the main part of Greenwich could be like that... North Greenwich Bus Station has to be the best bus station I have visited in London. It is nice, airy and modern, kinda reminded me of an airport departure lounge. If only they could have done the same design for West Croydon Bus Station. 161 to Eltham Station/Sherard Road ( E210) - Managed to avoid a WVL for a recently refurbished Enviro 400, had I been earlier though I would've ended up with ex Croydon bus WVL237, which I had helped to fix whilst doing work experience at C last summer. That I would have loved to had. The 161 is a rather interesting route, especially through the Millennium Village Complex, and I had no idea Queen Elizabeth Hospital was served by so many bus routes! Well Hall Road is another place where the 161 serves multiple times. Had a 2 minute connection in Eltham for my next bus, so had to get moving. Interestingly, the bus was Euro VI compliant, but I remembered that Catford is getting a ULEZ soon, hence the conversion. There was a Stagecoach driver route learning at the front of the bus. 162 to Bromley High Street/The Mall ( 185) - This was worth rushing for, as this was the first of the 138 buses that had been refurbished. It also gave me a taste of what to expect when the 434 buses are eventually refurbished. This journey was pretty smooth...until Chislehurst. We got stuck in heavy traffic approaching Summer Hill and was delayed by around 20 minutes in it. We weren't sure why at first, and the driver called Croydon iBus (where the 162 is now controlled from), then did a code blue, where he was asked to report what it is that was delaying the bus. Turns out it was...temporary traffic lights for road works that were not even being attended to! Worse still, the lights didn't stay green for long, resulting in a limited number of cars moving. Croydon also curtailed the driver to Bromley South, which was perfect for me as that's where I was headed. I had planned to catch a 138 afterwards and since LDP281 would have arrived at Bromley after our bus, I was quite excited, especially as I missed out on having this bus on the 434, as whenever it was on the route I was at college. Thanks to the delay however, I missed it and very nearly missed the next 138 15 minutes behind. I was not impressed to say the least.... The bus then became busy in Bickley with all the schools finishing and boarding the bus, and I kept frantically checking LVF to see if I would make the 138 come Bromley. 138 to Tiepigs Lane ( 162) - Another example of perfect timing. After getting off 185, 162 arrived fairly immediately, along with a WHV56 on the 119 behind, and that was the bus I was due to catch afterwards! The bus was rather busy with peak loadings. The 138 is a lovely route through the hills of Bromley and Hayes. We eventually beat WHV56 into Hayes, as it filled up and got stuck behind a cyclist after Station approach. 119 to East Croydon Station ( WHV56) - Again, perfect timing, as soon as I got off 162, WHV56 appeared behind it. This was rather busy, but as it was on running number C 135 at 3pm, this was rather expected. I had planned to continue on back home via the 405/455 and 434 but as time was running out before I had to be somewhere later in the day, I decided to cut that short and get the train instead. But then again when I arrived at East Croydon, my mum had just finished work nearby. More perfect timing! Got a lift home.
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Post by busaholic on Mar 18, 2018 19:07:39 GMT
With the 1, I remember reading that no credible bid (or words to that effect) were received, suggesting that London Central, for instance, didn't really want to run it so either didn't bid or put in such a silly one that they knew it couldn't be accepted.
Sorry to insist on this one, but I have to repeat that the 1 was not put out to tender in 2005. It was removed from the tendering programme and assigned to ETB as already explained, so Go-Ahead and others had no opportunity to bid for it, whether or not they wanted to. It re-entered the tendering programme along with all the other ex-ETB routes when TfL decided to sell off the ETB operation in 2009. I can only remember one instance of a route being assigned to ETB because of a lack of suitable bid - that was the 393, which was put out to tender for a 2002 start, but ended up with ETB, starting in early 2003. After ETB moved to Bermondsey (a long way from the 393 route) it was put out to tender again, and this time Arriva came up with an acceptable bid, taking over in 2007. My apologies, I shouldn't have written my bit then not post it for almost a day without first checking what else had been posted in the meantime. You are right to insist, I was obviously wrong about the 1 and probably got the 'wrong end of the stick'. I'm always happy to admit my mistakes!
Absolutely NOT for this thread, or maybe for any thread, but I can't think of any sizeable community in the old LCC area that had a worse service than Rotherhithe, north of Lower Road, when their sole bus service was the notoriously unreliable 82 through the Rotherhithe Tunnel to Stepney East. It was an infrequent service, even when running to schedule, in an area where car ownership would have been minimal. I'm glad to say that I don't think such a (lack of) service would be tolerated today.
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Post by beaver14uk on Mar 18, 2018 21:23:05 GMT
North Greenwich will be knocked down at some stage. I would hardly say it's better than West Croydon, the roof leaks, silly heavy doors linking the outside, buses can block others in at stops, narrow area for passengers, yeh great uote author=" YY13VKP" source="/post/423334/thread" timestamp="1521388778"]Had quite a journey on Friday for the last day of the 161, 181 and 284 under Metrobus! It started off as an enjoyable journey, but became a race against time towards the end. Here's what happened: Walked to Kenley Station Train to Norwood Junction (455 830) - Managed to get the last fast morning peak service on the Caterham line, unfortunately as it didnt call at New Cross Gate I had to change at Norwood Junction Train to New Cross Gate (377 206) - This train had initially arrived from the depot, and I was thinking it was running light to London Bridge, so it was rather amusing to see people try and open the doors even though it said the train wasn't in service. However it transpired that it was indeed due to work the train I needed to catch, so I boarded it. 21 to Marquis of Granby (LT859) - Had initially wanted to go to Lewisham on this, however it was too busy, and since there was a 436 not far behind, I decided to get off after two stops. 436 to Lewisham Station ( WHV13) - Nothing really to report about this journey, but without realising I travelled on it on its last day at NX before it moved to MG the next day with route 1. Snapped some of the buses at Lewisham Bus Station 181 to Bell Green/Sainsbury's ( 215) - As the OmniTown in front ( 603) had gone mechanical, I was treated to this ex Croydon machine, and especially since I had sister 214 on the 359 the previous day, it was a good substitute for an OmniTown. However as the objective was to ride an OmniTown, since I haven't had one in London (had CY's 623 on the 409 once), I decided to go halfway on it. The 181 is quite an interesting route, and reminds me of the 455 in some places as it does go round the houses a little bit. The bus became quite busy after Lewisham Town Centre and when we got to Catford 181 to Grove Park Bus Station ( 610) - Was good to finally get a London spec OmniTown for the rest of the journey to Grove Park. This part of the 181 was relatively quiet, and while I was filming the route, I noticed a convoy of Stagecoach Enviro 200MMC's going down Downham Way, on their way to Kangley Bridge Road garage from West Ham. The bus sounded brilliant and I am going to miss these buses around London. I believe the only Scania single decks in service in London can now be found on route 293, which I will do once the weather warms up! Walked to Barring Road/Coopers Lane, as the 284 stop closest to Grove Park Bus Station (St Augustine's Church) was closed! 284 to Grove Park Cemetery ( 756) - Was good to get a long Metrobus Enviro 200 again. Think one of MB's operating managers was driving it as he mentioned to a fellow enthusiast that he was a manager and was "watching all the rest of the 284 drivers" . He also mentioned that the 161, 181 and 284 were lost purely down to the opening of RR and Go-Ahead exceeding the 25% limit, which was interesting, especially as the tender result also shows that Stagecoach bidded cheaper. Waited at Grove Park, and while I did, along came new Stagecoach MMC 36685 route learning the 284! 284 to Lewisham Station ( 754) - Remember seeing this in Kenley on Rail Replacement before Metrobus took over the 434 in June 2013, so was pleased to see this come from the depot to work my trip. I spoke to the driver before we left, and he told me how he started his career and what was next for him when the 284 left. He was a fairly new driver and had been working at Orpington from the start of his career, but as a result of the losses, he was placed onto the 172 rota at NX, so that's where he was off to next. He also told me that he was due to drive the first 172 under Go-Ahead the next morning! However this trip was rather eventful. Shortly after leaving Grove Park, a woman wanted to leave the bus and the driver was stationary at a stop, but for some reason he did not open the rear doors and called iBus instead, as there was a mechanical MCV ahead. The woman kept pressing the bell and asking the driver to let her off but the driver didn't respond, even though another passenger told him and we continued. When we stopped at the next stop the woman went up to the driver and started asking why the driver didn't open the door. I couldn't really hear what he said but he apologised and opened the door for the woman to alight, but the woman said "No no, I don't need it now". What was the point of ringing the bell?! A fellow passenger asked me "What is wrong with this guy", and I simply explained that the driver was talking to the controller about something. We then went onto Grove Park Station and the woman wanted to get off again, but the driver only opened the front door, so she went back to the cab to ask why the rear doors weren't opening. She then got off via the front. Then further down the route at Vanoc Gardens, someone pressed the bell, but the driver drove past the stop, then the passenger rang the bell five times, shouted to the driver "HELLO???" and the driver stopped quickly and let her off... I don't think this was down to the driver's ability, I think there must have been a problem with the "Stop" light on the driver's dash not working correctly. After that, nothing much else happened apart from the driver coming on the PA to inform us that the bus stops in Catford Town Centre were closed. We reached Lewisham and I wished the driver all the best of luck at New Cross. He might need it though, considering the mistakes that were made during this trip, but the bus had just come from the depot, so not entirely sure why the rear doors weren't opened. Tried to find my way to the 108 bus stop in Lewisham. During this, I managed to snap LDP192, and spotted RandomBusesGirl in her natural habitat behind an Abellio Enviro 200 parked on the 484 stand. The driver had no idea she was there...as he was asleep! Did he ever get going? After asking a 21 driver and running through Lewisham shopping centre, I finally found the 108 stop towards Stratford...but it was closed! I tried to flag down the 108 coming, but he didn't stop and told me to go to the next stop. I somehow managed to run and find the next stop just before the bus got there, thanks to traffic. 108 to North Greenwich Bus Station ( MEC1) - Nice to get a refurbished ex Red Arrow Citaro since they left Waterloo, and the first one too! This bus was brilliant and I saw a couple of the trainer MEC's out and about. The route is also very scenic, especially around Blackheath (also finally managed to discover where the 202 terminates). As we got to North Greenwich, I was amazed at how modern the area leading upto the O2 is. The Millennium Village is a must visit in the future for me. All routes heading for North Greenwich have to serve 4 stops within the complex before North Greenwich Bus Station. If only the main part of Greenwich could be like that... North Greenwich Bus Station has to be the best bus station I have visited in London. It is nice, airy and modern, kinda reminded me of an airport departure lounge. If only they could have done the same design for West Croydon Bus Station. 161 to Eltham Station/Sherard Road ( E210) - Managed to avoid a WVL for a recently refurbished Enviro 400, had I been earlier though I would've ended up with ex Croydon bus WVL237, which I had helped to fix whilst doing work experience at C last summer. That I would have loved to had. The 161 is a rather interesting route, especially through the Millennium Village Complex, and I had no idea Queen Elizabeth Hospital was served by so many bus routes! Well Hall Road is another place where the 161 serves multiple times. Had a 2 minute connection in Eltham for my next bus, so had to get moving. Interestingly, the bus was Euro VI compliant, but I remembered that Catford is getting a ULEZ soon, hence the conversion. There was a Stagecoach driver route learning at the front of the bus. 162 to Bromley High Street/The Mall ( 185) - This was worth rushing for, as this was the first of the 138 buses that had been refurbished. It also gave me a taste of what to expect when the 434 buses are eventually refurbished. This journey was pretty smooth...until Chislehurst. We got stuck in heavy traffic approaching Summer Hill and was delayed by around 20 minutes in it. We weren't sure why at first, and the driver called Croydon iBus (where the 162 is now controlled from), then did a code blue, where he was asked to report what it is that was delaying the bus. Turns out it was...temporary traffic lights for road works that were not even being attended to! Worse still, the lights didn't stay green for long, resulting in a limited number of cars moving. Croydon also curtailed the driver to Bromley South, which was perfect for me as that's where I was headed. I had planned to catch a 138 afterwards and since LDP281 would have arrived at Bromley after our bus, I was quite excited, especially as I missed out on having this bus on the 434, as whenever it was on the route I was at college. Thanks to the delay however, I missed it and very nearly missed the next 138 15 minutes behind. I was not impressed to say the least.... The bus then became busy in Bickley with all the schools finishing and boarding the bus, and I kept frantically checking LVF to see if I would make the 138 come Bromley. 138 to Tiepigs Lane ( 162) - Another example of perfect timing. After getting off 185, 162 arrived fairly immediately, along with a WHV56 on the 119 behind, and that was the bus I was due to catch afterwards! The bus was rather busy with peak loadings. The 138 is a lovely route through the hills of Bromley and Hayes. We eventually beat WHV56 into Hayes, as it filled up and got stuck behind a cyclist after Station approach. 119 to East Croydon Station ( WHV56) - Again, perfect timing, as soon as I got off 162, WHV56 appeared behind it. This was rather busy, but as it was on running number C 135 at 3pm, this was rather expected. I had planned to continue on back home via the 405/455 and 434 but as time was running out before I had to be somewhere later in the day, I decided to cut that short and get the train instead. But then again when I arrived at East Croydon, my mum had just finished work nearby. More perfect timing! Got a lift home. [/quote]
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Post by Paul on Mar 18, 2018 22:12:59 GMT
North Greenwich will be knocked down at some stage. I would hardly say it's better than West Croydon, the roof leaks, silly heavy doors linking the outside, buses can block others in at stops, narrow area for passengers, yeh great Apart from all that though, it’s alright? 😉 I’ve never used the place as a driver and only rarely as a passenger but I’ve never had too many problems. The boarding area is narrow and I imagine can cause problems at busy times but when the place was built I don’t think the volume of people using it was ever envisioned to be as high as it is You say it will be knocked down at some stage. Is this your opinion or something that is knocking around at TfL? I have often thought there’s lots of unused space around the area that could be utilised a little better
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Mar 18, 2018 23:05:30 GMT
Tried to find my way to the 108 bus stop in Lewisham. During this, I managed to snap LDP192, and spotted RandomBusesGirl in her natural habitat behind an Abellio Enviro 200 parked on the 484 stand. The driver had no idea she was there...as he was asleep! Did he ever get going? After asking a 21 driver and running through Lewisham shopping centre, I finally found the 108 stop towards Stratford...but it was closed! I tried to flag down the 108 coming, but he didn't stop and told me to go to the next stop. I somehow managed to run and find the next stop just before the bus got there, thanks to traffic. 108 to North Greenwich Bus Station ( MEC1) - Nice to get a refurbished ex Red Arrow Citaro since they left Waterloo, and the first one too! This bus was brilliant and I saw a couple of the trainer MEC's out and about. The route is also very scenic, especially around Blackheath (also finally managed to discover where the 202 terminates). As we got to North Greenwich, I was amazed at how modern the area leading upto the O2 is. The Millennium Village is a must visit in the future for me. All routes heading for North Greenwich have to serve 4 stops within the complex before North Greenwich Bus Station. If only the main part of Greenwich could be like that... North Greenwich Bus Station has to be the best bus station I have visited in London. It is nice, airy and modern, kinda reminded me of an airport departure lounge. If only they could have done the same design for West Croydon Bus Station. Routes 188 and 422 don't go that way, so be careful picking what routes if you want to have a ride through the Millennium Village. I'm quite surprised you found North Greenwich impressive. If you're interested in Airport departure lounge style bus stations I recommend Hammersmith Upper instead of North Greenwich. The best thing there is the Subway that's found in the station!
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Post by busaholic on Mar 18, 2018 23:24:33 GMT
Tried to find my way to the 108 bus stop in Lewisham. During this, I managed to snap LDP192, and spotted RandomBusesGirl in her natural habitat behind an Abellio Enviro 200 parked on the 484 stand. The driver had no idea she was there...as he was asleep! Did he ever get going? After asking a 21 driver and running through Lewisham shopping centre, I finally found the 108 stop towards Stratford...but it was closed! I tried to flag down the 108 coming, but he didn't stop and told me to go to the next stop. I somehow managed to run and find the next stop just before the bus got there, thanks to traffic. 108 to North Greenwich Bus Station ( MEC1) - Nice to get a refurbished ex Red Arrow Citaro since they left Waterloo, and the first one too! This bus was brilliant and I saw a couple of the trainer MEC's out and about. The route is also very scenic, especially around Blackheath (also finally managed to discover where the 202 terminates). As we got to North Greenwich, I was amazed at how modern the area leading upto the O2 is. The Millennium Village is a must visit in the future for me. All routes heading for North Greenwich have to serve 4 stops within the complex before North Greenwich Bus Station. If only the main part of Greenwich could be like that... North Greenwich Bus Station has to be the best bus station I have visited in London. It is nice, airy and modern, kinda reminded me of an airport departure lounge. If only they could have done the same design for West Croydon Bus Station. Routes 188 and 422 don't go that way, so be careful picking what routes if you want to have a ride through the Millennium Village. I'm quite surprised you found North Greenwich impressive. If you're interested in Airport departure lounge style bus stations I recommend Hammersmith Upper instead of North Greenwich. The best thing there is the Subway that's found in the station! If the best thing about a bus station is a Subway, then dire is the only word for it.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 18, 2018 23:40:51 GMT
North Greenwich will be knocked down at some stage. I would hardly say it's better than West Croydon, the roof leaks, silly heavy doors linking the outside, buses can block others in at stops, narrow area for passengers, yeh great Apart from all that though, it’s alright? 😉 I’ve never used the place as a driver and only rarely as a passenger but I’ve never had too many problems. The boarding area is narrow and I imagine can cause problems at busy times but when the place was built I don’t think the volume of people using it was ever envisioned to be as high as it is You say it will be knocked down at some stage. Is this your opinion or something that is knocking around at TfL? I have often thought there’s lots of unused space around the area that could be utilised a little better I like North Greenwich bus station largely because it gives a proper undercover connection between tube and bus. I agree that it is under strain at peak times as the numbers travelling through the area are huge. However you could sort some of the carriageway width issues if only someone was prepared to use some of the car parking space nearby. It is certainly the case that the place is earmarked to be flattened as part of the large scale redevelopment of the area. Some ridiculous glass monstrosity is proposed to be built over the tube / bus station area. Some people are trying to get NOG bus station listed to protect it from demolition but I can't see them winning, sadly. www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/02/greenwich-peninsula-santiago-calatrava-london-building-tubeThe problem with plonking some sort of "iconic" (ugh) building over a transport hub is that it becomes impossible to fix any issues that arise with capacity. When you look at the enormous scale of redevelopment and realise there will be a vastly different bus network in the area, especially if the Silvertown Tunnel is built, that blocking your options for transport capacity inside something unlikely ever to be demolished is rather stupid. Anyone with half a brain will know that development companies do not like to cede an extra square inch of space if they can avoid it so there will be enormous pressure on TfL to agree to as small a bus and tube station building as possible. There is unlikely to be any reserved space for expansion so if people think today's North Greenwich doesn't work then I wouldn't like to see the future one in around 2040. It is also worth noting that some of the plans I've seen envisage buses running on different levels within the redeveloped area that will do nothing for interchange and connectivity. Hopefully such mad ideas have been killed off as plans mature and have to be turned into viable and buildable designs.
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