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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 5, 2014 10:18:08 GMT
TfL don't always go with original plans, but, like it or not, this is one where I think they were going to carry it through come h**l or high water!
Re. NBfL : all speculation, but 159 looks to me to be an almost certain candidate (even though I think the 3 would be better). Not sure about the 137 : I have vjaska's reservations here.
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Post by M1104 on Mar 5, 2014 10:36:59 GMT
If the 159 is being cut more for an NB4L service from the west end to South London why not simply convert parallel route 3 instead? The 159 can still use hybrids, but of the HV class and thus remain as Streatham to Paddington. If TfL want the Boris bus to reach the Streatham area there is still the 137 to play with. Lol an LT going up and down the very steep and tight College Road hill. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I can imagine route 159 will be now the next route to be announced. I expect a late summer/autumn conversion for the route. As for route 137 I think it will convert in the future. Probs next year the earliest. I speculate that another route will be announced before the 159 so as not to appear 'too obvious' as to why it was cut back to Marble Arch. It could otherwise add/increase negative publicity to its conversion. |
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Post by westhamgeezer on Mar 5, 2014 11:09:03 GMT
This was a foregone conclusion, as will be the removal of the 9H. Not giving my opinion whether its right or wrong, just stating what I am convinced will happen. I look at the R5/10 Orpington routes, and Richmond bus station as 2 examples of a "consultation" in which many people were against, however still went ahead.
Seeing that this is going ahead, I would extend the 15 back to Paddington. This route is a shadow of its former self, and has lost a lot of use now that it currently terminates at Trafalgar Square.
And as with route 7, I think that you need to review it 1 year after crossrail (learn from mistakes made with Tramlink and Jubilee line extension) As Snoggle says, everyone will NOT come to Oxford Street by Crossrail and not use a bus, if anything I would suggest that the buses could become busier because of crossrail
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 5, 2014 11:38:47 GMT
Oh great, looks like I'll be avoiding the 23 in the West End.
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Mar 5, 2014 15:05:32 GMT
Lol an LT going up and down the very steep and tight College Road hill. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I can imagine route 159 will be now the next route to be announced. I expect a late summer/autumn conversion for the route. As for route 137 I think it will convert in the future. Probs next year the earliest. I speculate that another route will be announced before the 159 so as not to appear 'too obvious' as to why it was cut back to Marble Arch. It could otherwise add/increase negative publicity to its conversion. I agree I think what TfL might do is focus a significant amount of LTs to one operator like they are doing currently with London United. I definitely think route 38 will get an autumn conversion with the 159 following right after. |
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Post by sw11simon on Mar 5, 2014 15:44:57 GMT
N68 is still around. My experiences were that N159 were unreliable, N109 is much better for me anyway although it too has an overcrowding issue like its daytime equivalent! On another point, I would argue that the majority of customers from Central London taking the N109 are going to Croydon not beyond there. N64 which I have used seems to be lightly used. N109 overcrowded? Lol, of all the words, overcrowded would be the last word. Anytime I use it, there is around 5-10 aboard whereas the 159 & N133 are busier. The N109 is always driven at a snails space which is diabolical for a night route that encounters little, if any, traffic. The N68, I've found to be unreliable and would only serves south of Croydon - I don't see that area to be any different in having a link to London than east of Croydon. But that's my take on it anyway lol. The N64 may be lightly used because of the routing it takes, which is different to what the N159 took, though I'm unsure if that's the actual reason as to why the N64 is lightly used. As someone who used to drive the N68 quite often, it is relatively reliable Sunday to Thursday. However it use the same number of buses on a Friday and Saturday and is normally packed... really hard to keep time solely due to loadings. I have been half an hour late arriving at Old Coulsdon before with no major traffic. I used to dread some journeys through Croydon towards Old Coulsdon in the early hours of Sat/Sun mornings. Too many drunk guys fighting and being aggressive. I have had half a bottle of wine poured over me and someone trying to kick my assault screen in using both feet there just for asking for a fare/ pass. I did nights only when they were short of staff, and on a weekend I much preferred working route 12 which funnily enough never needed a curtailment and rarely attracted any hassle (fortunately because I was helping them out by being a volunteer on nights, I usually got my choice there... they would occasionally beg me to do the N68. Sun-Thurs I preferred the N68...) |
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Post by goaheadswvlrbest on Mar 5, 2014 16:46:04 GMT
Whatever happened to 2014 year of the bus according to TFL if they are cutting important links like this .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 19:35:55 GMT
I don't think the West End will ever see the return of the 15 let alone Paddington. I have a feeling that it will be cut even further back lol
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Post by snoggle on Mar 5, 2014 20:29:42 GMT
Whatever happened to 2014 year of the bus according to TFL if they are cutting important links like this . This concept of "The Year of ...." is a load of [ bleep ]. Apparently Sir Bernard Hogan Howe (Met Police Commissioner) has declared this year "the year of Detection" which has brought forth a load of predictable jibes about it being useful for the police to detect crime every [ bleep ] year.   The Tube's 150th anniversary was an entirely legitimate event worthy of note and celebration and LU did well with the special events. It is also in line with marking other anniversaries which LU has been reasonably consistent on. In addition some aspects of the tube's performance and investment programme have come to fruition to make services more reliable and to provide more capacity. Other stuff is also in the pipeline and people can see it being built. There is a demonstrable programme of improvements that has been publicised and is reported on. All of this is because the tube is bursting at the seams and an unreliable Tube system is politically damaging for the Mayor. Unfortunately a bus service struggling to cope with demand is not (yet) politically damaging for the Mayor. The bus side of TfL / LT has been much less involved with celebrating bus anniversaries - it has been left to the more "enthusiast" minded operators and private individuals / organisations to do things. I am afraid that my cynicism about Year of the Bus is deepening as we move into the year as next to nothing is happening to actually improve the network in any substantive way. Tweaks like the S1 extension and better frequency on the P13 are nice to see but so much else is wrong or being cut to the bone that it is hard to have any objective sense of confidence. The cashless buses, 159 reduction and 9H withdrawal have one motivation - money and nothing else. More is to come because the financial pressures are relentless. There is no plan to improve the bus network despite repeated demands for one and from what I've seen, heard and read there is no appetite to create one. We may be cynical about the consultation process here but believe me that local councillors are a million percent more cynical about TfL and consultation than we are. |
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Post by LX09FBJ on Mar 14, 2014 21:30:50 GMT
This concept of "The Year of ...." is a load of [ bleep ]. Apparently Sir Bernard Hogan Howe (Met Police Commissioner) has declared this year "the year of Detection" which has brought forth a load of predictable jibes about it being useful for the police to detect crime every [ bleep ] year. The Tube's 150th anniversary was an entirely legitimate event worthy of note and celebration and LU did well with the special events. It is also in line with marking other anniversaries which LU has been reasonably consistent on. In addition some aspects of the tube's performance and investment programme have come to fruition to make services more reliable and to provide more capacity. Other stuff is also in the pipeline and people can see it being built. There is a demonstrable programme of improvements that has been publicised and is reported on. All of this is because the tube is bursting at the seams and an unreliable Tube system is politically damaging for the Mayor. Unfortunately a bus service struggling to cope with demand is not (yet) politically damaging for the Mayor. The bus side of TfL / LT has been much less involved with celebrating bus anniversaries - it has been left to the more "enthusiast" minded operators and private individuals / organisations to do things. I am afraid that my cynicism about Year of the Bus is deepening as we move into the year as next to nothing is happening to actually improve the network in any substantive way. Tweaks like the S1 extension and better frequency on the P13 are nice to see but so much else is wrong or being cut to the bone that it is hard to have any objective sense of confidence. The cashless buses, 159 reduction and 9H withdrawal have one motivation - money and nothing else. More is to come because the financial pressures are relentless. There is no plan to improve the bus network despite repeated demands for one and from what I've seen, heard and read there is no appetite to create one. We may be cynical about the consultation process here but believe me that local councillors are a million percent more cynical about TfL and consultation than we are. Agree 100%. And the root of the problem I'm afraid is the NB4L which while I maintain it's a good bus (assuming it moves), but is an white elephant. Unreliable, expensive, bigger but with less capacity. Meanwhile I have to deal with a 111 which always terminates at Hampton Wick, while some route which got new buses just six months earlier gets new LTs. HVs and ADHs (or whatever you call them) are cheaper, more reliable, have a much better chance of being cascaded/sold after London work and most importantly can be used on the vast majority of double deck routes!159 withdrawal between Marble Arch and Paddington Basin is confirmed, and will take place in two weeks time  But the PVR is cut by merely 4 buses. How far is it to extend the 205, 436 or 453 to Paddington Basin. That way TfL will save money and maintain the link between Paddington Basin. |
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Post by DT 11 on Mar 14, 2014 21:38:36 GMT
This concept of "The Year of ...." is a load of [ bleep ]. Apparently Sir Bernard Hogan Howe (Met Police Commissioner) has declared this year "the year of Detection" which has brought forth a load of predictable jibes about it being useful for the police to detect crime every [ bleep ] year. The Tube's 150th anniversary was an entirely legitimate event worthy of note and celebration and LU did well with the special events. It is also in line with marking other anniversaries which LU has been reasonably consistent on. In addition some aspects of the tube's performance and investment programme have come to fruition to make services more reliable and to provide more capacity. Other stuff is also in the pipeline and people can see it being built. There is a demonstrable programme of improvements that has been publicised and is reported on. All of this is because the tube is bursting at the seams and an unreliable Tube system is politically damaging for the Mayor. Unfortunately a bus service struggling to cope with demand is not (yet) politically damaging for the Mayor. The bus side of TfL / LT has been much less involved with celebrating bus anniversaries - it has been left to the more "enthusiast" minded operators and private individuals / organisations to do things. I am afraid that my cynicism about Year of the Bus is deepening as we move into the year as next to nothing is happening to actually improve the network in any substantive way. Tweaks like the S1 extension and better frequency on the P13 are nice to see but so much else is wrong or being cut to the bone that it is hard to have any objective sense of confidence. The cashless buses, 159 reduction and 9H withdrawal have one motivation - money and nothing else. More is to come because the financial pressures are relentless. There is no plan to improve the bus network despite repeated demands for one and from what I've seen, heard and read there is no appetite to create one. We may be cynical about the consultation process here but believe me that local councillors are a million percent more cynical about TfL and consultation than we are. Agree 100%. And the root of the problem I'm afraid is the NB4L which while I maintain it's a good bus (assuming it moves), but is an white elephant. Unreliable, expensive, bigger but with less capacity. Meanwhile I have to deal with a 111 which always terminates at Hampton Wick, while some route which got new buses just six months earlier gets new LTs. HVs and ADHs (or whatever you call them) are cheaper, more reliable, have a much better chance of being cascaded/sold after London work and most importantly can be used on the vast majority of double deck routes!159 withdrawal between Marble Arch and Paddington Basin is confirmed, and will take place in two weeks time But the PVR is cut by merely 4 buses. How far is it to extend the 205, 436 or 453 to Paddington Basin. That way TfL will save money and maintain the link between Paddington Basin. Interesting as the PVR was orginally 31 before extended to Paddington Basin. web.archive.org/web/20100707113047/http://www.londonbusroutes.net/details.htm |
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Post by LX09FBJ on Mar 14, 2014 21:40:54 GMT
Agree 100%. And the root of the problem I'm afraid is the NB4L which while I maintain it's a good bus (assuming it moves), but is an white elephant. Unreliable, expensive, bigger but with less capacity. Meanwhile I have to deal with a 111 which always terminates at Hampton Wick, while some route which got new buses just six months earlier gets new LTs. HVs and ADHs (or whatever you call them) are cheaper, more reliable, have a much better chance of being cascaded/sold after London work and most importantly can be used on the vast majority of double deck routes!159 withdrawal between Marble Arch and Paddington Basin is confirmed, and will take place in two weeks time But the PVR is cut by merely 4 buses. How far is it to extend the 205, 436 or 453 to Paddington Basin. That way TfL will save money and maintain the link between Paddington Basin. Interesting as the PVR was orginally 31 before extended to Paddington Basin. web.archive.org/web/20100707113047/http://www.londonbusroutes.net/details.htmPossibly due to added congestion, or for reliability. I recall that routes in the late 1990s had a lower PVR than now |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 14, 2014 22:29:59 GMT
This concept of "The Year of ...." is a load of [ bleep ]. Apparently Sir Bernard Hogan Howe (Met Police Commissioner) has declared this year "the year of Detection" which has brought forth a load of predictable jibes about it being useful for the police to detect crime every [ bleep ] year. The Tube's 150th anniversary was an entirely legitimate event worthy of note and celebration and LU did well with the special events. It is also in line with marking other anniversaries which LU has been reasonably consistent on. In addition some aspects of the tube's performance and investment programme have come to fruition to make services more reliable and to provide more capacity. Other stuff is also in the pipeline and people can see it being built. There is a demonstrable programme of improvements that has been publicised and is reported on. All of this is because the tube is bursting at the seams and an unreliable Tube system is politically damaging for the Mayor. Unfortunately a bus service struggling to cope with demand is not (yet) politically damaging for the Mayor. The bus side of TfL / LT has been much less involved with celebrating bus anniversaries - it has been left to the more "enthusiast" minded operators and private individuals / organisations to do things. I am afraid that my cynicism about Year of the Bus is deepening as we move into the year as next to nothing is happening to actually improve the network in any substantive way. Tweaks like the S1 extension and better frequency on the P13 are nice to see but so much else is wrong or being cut to the bone that it is hard to have any objective sense of confidence. The cashless buses, 159 reduction and 9H withdrawal have one motivation - money and nothing else. More is to come because the financial pressures are relentless. There is no plan to improve the bus network despite repeated demands for one and from what I've seen, heard and read there is no appetite to create one. We may be cynical about the consultation process here but believe me that local councillors are a million percent more cynical about TfL and consultation than we are. Agree 100%. And the root of the problem I'm afraid is the NB4L which while I maintain it's a good bus (assuming it moves), but is an white elephant. Unreliable, expensive, bigger but with less capacity. Meanwhile I have to deal with a 111 which always terminates at Hampton Wick, while some route which got new buses just six months earlier gets new LTs. HVs and ADHs (or whatever you call them) are cheaper, more reliable, have a much better chance of being cascaded/sold after London work and most importantly can be used on the vast majority of double deck routes!159 withdrawal between Marble Arch and Paddington Basin is confirmed, and will take place in two weeks time But the PVR is cut by merely 4 buses. How far is it to extend the 205, 436 or 453 to Paddington Basin. That way TfL will save money and maintain the link between Paddington Basin. With the exception of yourself, I hope all other NBfL lovers are happy, they get their wish now for their beloved buses to be rolled out!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 17:06:43 GMT
What usually happens to the drivers when routes lose some of their PVR like this?
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Post by M1104 on Mar 15, 2014 17:11:05 GMT
What usually happens to the drivers when routes lose some of their PVR like this? Resources are generally reallocated to another route, in this case it will be for peak hour enhancements on the 59. |
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