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Post by ServerKing on Jan 12, 2014 17:24:27 GMT
Arriva's operation in Malta came to an end on the 2nd January... www.route-one.net/issues/520/index.html#/6/But at least Malta now have a fleet of modern vehicles  Not sure if Arriva will ship the Bendies back to the UK or leave them there  |
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Post by greeny253 on Jan 13, 2014 0:23:11 GMT
Arriva's operation in Malta came to an end on the 2nd January... www.route-one.net/issues/520/index.html#/6/But at least Malta now have a fleet of modern vehicles Not sure if Arriva will ship the Bendies back to the UK or leave them there According to that article the bendy buses are staying and will transfer with the rest of the operation to state control. 2 out of 10 years. Bad show Arriva. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 1:18:50 GMT
The whole episode has been totally flawed. The original tender was to run a network of Government supplied routes - this was mainly based around a low cost vehicle tender of ex-London Ciatros and cheaper Chinese King Ling. this was the tender agreed and accepted by the Maltese Government. The operation was sabotaged from day one with many of the former us drivers who they were obliged to other jobs to under the tender agreement failing to report for work on day one. Since the government accepted their initial network was flawed .. every change seemed to be squeezing Arriva a little more. The change of government hardly helped with the incoming government saying as good as they will get Arriva out in the pre-election build up. They got their way by banning the Citaro (which may or may not have been the ideal buses for there allocated routes), as the additional cost of hiring in buses turned what was a lose making one into an operation that was unviable - arson has not been ruled out as the cause of any of the Maltese bendi bus fires. The Maltese government have got what they wanted and I think Arriva are glad to be out - think they are glad to have got rid of those King Longs.# Thine the route one article is wrong about hthe bendis as just about very other article seens says they are excluded eg busandcoach.com www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=8220&categoryid=0 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 11:52:07 GMT
I doubt any other large operator will be keen to take over the Malta bus routes now!
I visited Malta last Easter and didn't encounter any problems myself, and found the buses easy to use and very cheap. The bendy-buses were fun on narrow bendy roads with fast drivers (they made my friends feel sick, but they had never been on a bus before!!! so probably weren't used to it), but I don't think they were suitable for Malta- maybe they were for a few routes (like in London I thought), but not on the routes I went on!
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Post by snoggle on Jan 13, 2014 12:29:34 GMT
The whole episode has been totally flawed. The original tender was to run a network of Government supplied routes - this was mainly based around a low cost vehicle tender of ex-London Ciatros and cheaper Chinese King Ling. this was the tender agreed and accepted by the Maltese Government. The operation was sabotaged from day one with many of the former us drivers who they were obliged to other jobs to under the tender agreement failing to report for work on day one. Since the government accepted their initial network was flawed .. every change seemed to be squeezing Arriva a little more. The change of government hardly helped with the incoming government saying as good as they will get Arriva out in the pre-election build up. They got their way by banning the Citaro (which may or may not have been the ideal buses for there allocated routes), as the additional cost of hiring in buses turned what was a lose making one into an operation that was unviable - arson has not been ruled out as the cause of any of the Maltese bendi bus fires. The Maltese government have got what they wanted and I think Arriva are glad to be out - think they are glad to have got rid of those King Longs.# Thine the route one article is wrong about hthe bendis as just about very other article seens says they are excluded eg busandcoach.com www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=8220&categoryid=0I've not followed the issue in great detail but it is one of those classic contractual situations where I suspect Arriva and the Government were in completely different places as to what they've signed up to. The Government expected a miracle overhaul of the bus network and Arriva reasonably expected some support and that the former drivers would turn up to work. The whole thing has been a mess with routes being rerouted, industrial action, grumbling passengers and moaning politicians. To me it's a bit rich, as you say, for the politicians to whinge about the route network when they commissioned the consultants and approved it for implementation. I agree with you that the consensus is that the bendies are NOT part of the takeover deal. I can't see Arriva leaving them there to boil slowly in the Maltese sunshine. I imagine they'll be dragged back to the UK but I'd be surprised if they see further use (unfortunately). |
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Post by M1104 on Jan 13, 2014 12:47:21 GMT
Stick them on the 109 for the new tender
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Post by snoggle on Jan 13, 2014 13:03:54 GMT
I doubt any other large operator will be keen to take over the Malta bus routes now! I visited Malta last Easter and didn't encounter any problems myself, and found the buses easy to use and very cheap. The bendy-buses were fun on narrow bendy roads with fast drivers (they made my friends feel sick, but they had never been on a bus before!!! so probably weren't used to it), but I don't think they were suitable for Malta- maybe they were for a few routes (like in London I thought), but not on the routes I went on! I think you're right about any future operator of the network. Given the scale of losses that Arriva have incurred anyone else will be extremely cautious about taking on an omnibus disaster area. Any bidder will demand all sorts of guarantees and get out clauses so they don't get lumbered as Arriva have been. I don't know how you cure the employee relations issues - I have a sneaking suspicion that it's insoluble given some of the drivers will be perpetuately "fed up" about the old "owner driver" regime having been swept away. They'll be happy to try to sabotage every attempt to run a contracted network in the vain hope of the good old days being restored. I've not been to Malta and am unlikely to visit but isn't one of the long standing problems is that some route corridors do have high demand with even higher holiday peaks? This is what the bendies were brought in to solve despite the issues with narrow roads. The alternative is running lots of smaller buses which will probably be jammed full anyway and the government are unlikely to want to pay for a high frequency, low vehicle capacity solution. It ties up vehicles and staff and that's where the cost is. Shifting more people per driver is more economic if the vehicles will fit. Was it not the case that even on the old network with the classic buses that some routes were hopelessly overloaded for hours on end? If that is correct then it's no wonder that Arriva (and I assume the consultants) proposed the use of high capacity vehicles to try to ease the overcrowding. |
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Post by John tuthill on Jan 13, 2014 14:19:04 GMT
I doubt any other large operator will be keen to take over the Malta bus routes now! I visited Malta last Easter and didn't encounter any problems myself, and found the buses easy to use and very cheap. The bendy-buses were fun on narrow bendy roads with fast drivers (they made my friends feel sick, but they had never been on a bus before!!! so probably weren't used to it), but I don't think they were suitable for Malta- maybe they were for a few routes (like in London I thought), but not on the routes I went on! I think you're right about any future operator of the network. Given the scale of losses that Arriva have incurred anyone else will be extremely cautious about taking on an omnibus disaster area. Any bidder will demand all sorts of guarantees and get out clauses so they don't get lumbered as Arriva have been. I don't know how you cure the employee relations issues - I have a sneaking suspicion that it's insoluble given some of the drivers will be perpetuately "fed up" about the old "owner driver" regime having been swept away. They'll be happy to try to sabotage every attempt to run a contracted network in the vain hope of the good old days being restored. I've not been to Malta and am unlikely to visit but isn't one of the long standing problems is that some route corridors do have high demand with even higher holiday peaks? This is what the bendies were brought in to solve despite the issues with narrow roads. The alternative is running lots of smaller buses which will probably be jammed full anyway and the government are unlikely to want to pay for a high frequency, low vehicle capacity solution. It ties up vehicles and staff and that's where the cost is. Shifting more people per driver is more economic if the vehicles will fit. Was it not the case that even on the old network with the classic buses that some routes were hopelessly overloaded for hours on end? If that is correct then it's no wonder that Arriva (and I assume the consultants) proposed the use of high capacity vehicles to try to ease the overcrowding. As anyone who has been to Malta will know, some of the outer areas away from Valetta and off the main roads, are villages which haven't changed for hundreds of years, consequently the streets are very narrow. I was there about 10 years ago, and even the dear old Bedford's with Duple Vega bodies didn't have much clearance in these villages. I said it when I first read about it, the idea of a bendy going 'round the island was ridiculous |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 18:02:30 GMT
The thing is what the Maltese want now and what the contract they signed with Arriva are 2 very different things ... and seemingly wanted Arriva to keep adding to the network and banning contracted buses without any recompense.
I did go to Malta in November, and found the bus service to be incredibly cheap, but frequent and reliable ... though sure the blackout Windows are more due to a heat prevention measure than a pimp my ride up. The Bendis were already band at this stage.
Arriva virtually forced the governments hand to take the operation back after threatening to do the only thing they could do to get out of the contract, which was liquidating Arriva Malta, which would have meant Malta having no bus services ... so Transport Malta was left with no option but to buy the operation from them.
Arriva we quoted as losing 1.8m euros a month ... the government are saying that will increase to 2.0m when they take over. So now know they are going to have to pay 24m euros more a year than they were willing to pay Arriva.
I think any big operator would jump at the chance of running the transport system ... they seem to know the failings of the 1st attempt, the Maltese now know what they want and will have to pay the operator more ... Arriva were the fall guys that have made it easy for the incoming operator. Any incoming operator already has the basis of a 21st century bus system in place ... something Arriva never had. The only thing that Malta ma have learnt from the exercise is to get parental company guarantees.
The residents of Gozo (Malta minor Island) are sorry to see Arriva go ... they were more than happy with the service improvements that came with the Operation.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 13, 2014 18:56:52 GMT
Surely though @steve517757 the opposite of your view could equally apply? You said in an earlier post that the government has flip flopped about the bus system and its position with Arriva. The government has changed and that made a poor situation intolerable - who's to say this would not happen again with a change of political party? If I was daft enough to bid to run a service in such a volatile environment then I'd want some guarantees from the government never mind the government wanting parent company guarantees. They can't be a competent procurement authority if they didn't ask for those from Arriva the first time round! I am sure that any big group would be very careful about wanting to step into Arriva's former shoes in Malta. I certainly don't think it's going to be a quick fix for the Maltese government.
The financial sums are telling too - cheap fares but a lot of resource being needed and still it runs at a loss beyond whatever Arriva were being paid to run the network. There must be a question mark as to whether that scale of expenditure is sustainable in the longer term and especially under another operator. Will they really want to take on Arriva's King Long vehicles? They may have no choice in the short term but any vehicle replacement has to be paid for. It doesn't come for free no matter who's running what.
I dare say the next few months will show us what's happening.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 0:09:20 GMT
Snoggle, yes I agree with what you are saying... but if you could enter into a contract with Malta for Arriva + 2million euros per month plus a profit margin ... you would be interested would you not? Less than 3 years ago, a multinational company agreed to do it for a quarter of a billion euros less over 10 years
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Post by snoggle on Jan 14, 2014 0:44:23 GMT
Snoggle, yes I agree with what you are saying... but if you could enter into a contract with Malta for Arriva + 2million euros per month plus a profit margin ... you would be interested would you not? Less than 3 years ago, a multinational company agreed to do it for a quarter of a billion euros less over 10 years To be honest I would be very concerned about the risks around the contract and the operating environment. I would want to understand if I could sensibly manage those risks which were mine under the contract within the money I had within my business and that received by way of contract payments. To the extent that there were risks outside my control I would want to understand where those risks sat, what probability there was of them occuring and whether I was suitably protected from their consequences. The two biggest ones in Malta are public reaction and then the political environment. From an albeit limited exposure to what has happened in Malta my view is that both risks are extremely volative and it only takes the most minor slip for a company's reputation to be trashed by vocal members of the public and then the politicians jumping on the back of that. I really don't know whether Arriva made serious mistakes in Malta - I was surprised to see there have been 4 MDs in short order. That scale of change in a short time period doesn't bode well for a stable operation. If they did make serious errors that were solely their responsibility then they've failed to manage their risks properly and they've reaped (some of) the consequences. All companies have to take that on the chin. However to the extent that Arriva were mucked around by outside parties then those other parties were / are responsible. I'd want to make sure the "mucking around" factors were stopped or there were very obvious consequences for those doing the mucking around and I was protected from the fall out. Any sane business identifies, quantities and manages its risks and works with partners to keep external or shared risks under control. I did plenty of that in my time with TfL and you have to be very alert to behaviour changes, "events" and the actions of your own team to make sure you keep on top of things. I am sure it is even more pressing in the bus company environment where every pound or euro counts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 8:26:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 8:39:17 GMT
Arriva in Malta was always a troubled operation
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 20:07:42 GMT
Arriva in Malta was always a troubled operation Not really. When I went there, it wasn't too bad |
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Not sure if Arriva will ship the Bendies back to the UK or leave them there 
