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Post by M1104 on Jul 6, 2014 12:27:23 GMT
I don't think you are being grumpy. I was astounded when I saw photos of the train have been stripped at the end of its trip. I know it's destined for the scrap heap and I know TfL are trying to make money from rip off priced souvenirs from old bits of train but even so. The trains are still public assets even if at the end of their service lives. I went on the 67 stock "tour" and that was enjoyable and a lot of effort goes into these runs and I wonder if those forking out the money realise quite how much effort is made. If they're not careful then TfL / LU might decide not to bother in future if people are going to trash the train at the end. We had the graffiti nonsense with the A stock last day which was also a shame. I know the C stock wasn't the most loved of trains but I'll miss them as I commuted on them a lot and they had a certain style to them. Having not commuted for the last couple of years they've gone from "in service" to "not in service" with me not seeing the gradual changeover. Personally, I really don't understand why people don't like the C stock, sure they were tired looking but so are the Nothern Line trains and they've not even hit 20 years old. I liked the C stock, they sounded a bit more grunty than the D stock which I dislike very much because they sound so boring. I also liked the grunty sound of the C stock, which I initially found a bit of a surprise as they are the big version of the Victoria line's old 67 stock and had expected them to sound similar. I also like the D stock as they sound like the Piccadilly line, except they are a lot slower, which was a bit of a nuisance. I also like the noise rhythms when they roll over tracks, sort of a "dada-dada dada-dada....dada-dada dada-dada" instead of the usual "dada-dada.....dada-dada".
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Post by vjaska on Jul 6, 2014 13:21:40 GMT
Personally, I really don't understand why people don't like the C stock, sure they were tired looking but so are the Nothern Line trains and they've not even hit 20 years old. I liked the C stock, they sounded a bit more grunty than the D stock which I dislike very much because they sound so boring. I also liked the grunty sound of the C stock, which I initially found a bit of a surprise as they are the big version of the Victoria line's old 67 stock and had expected them to sound similar. I also like the D stock as they sound like the Piccadilly line, except they are a lot slower. Which was a bit of a nuisance I also like the noise rhythms when they roll over tracks, sort of a "dada-dada dada-dada....dada-dada dada-dada" instead of the usual "dada-dada.....dada-dada". I don't like the Northern or Piccadilly stock either, the Northern is the one I dislike the most.
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Post by M1104 on Jul 6, 2014 14:32:36 GMT
I also liked the grunty sound of the C stock, which I initially found a bit of a surprise as they are the big version of the Victoria line's old 67 stock and had expected them to sound similar. I also like the D stock as they sound like the Piccadilly line, except they are a lot slower. Which was a bit of a nuisance I also like the noise rhythms when they roll over tracks, sort of a "dada-dada dada-dada....dada-dada dada-dada" instead of the usual "dada-dada.....dada-dada". I don't like the Northern or Piccadilly stock either, the Northern is the one I dislike the most. I love the Picadilly line stock, especially when thrashing between Hammersmith and Acton town. They are my 2nd favourite after the Jubilee line's stock. I like the northern line as well, but don't like how the computer keeps stabbing the throttle in the tunnel instead of a constant high speed.... Especially on the Morden branch where the tunnels are mostly straight enough for a good trash. The 72 stock were best at that.
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Post by Connor on Jul 6, 2014 14:36:41 GMT
I don't like the Northern or Piccadilly stock either, the Northern is the one I dislike the most. I love the Picadilly line stock, they were my favourite until the Jubilee line's stock got upgraded. I like the northern line as well, but don't like how the computer keeps stabbing the throttle in the tunnel instead of a constant high speed.... Especially on the Morden branch where the tunnels are mostly straight enough for a good trash. The 72 stock were best at that. Maybe it's just me but I really haven't noticed the 1996 stock get faster since the ATO upgrade...
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Post by M1104 on Jul 6, 2014 14:40:49 GMT
I love the Picadilly line stock, they were my favourite until the Jubilee line's stock got upgraded. I like the northern line as well, but don't like how the computer keeps stabbing the throttle in the tunnel instead of a constant high speed.... Especially on the Morden branch where the tunnels are mostly straight enough for a good trash. The 72 stock were best at that. Maybe it's just me but I really haven't noticed the 1996 stock get faster since the ATO upgrade... If you can try riding one from Bermondsey to London Bridge, which to me it's where it goes the fastest when it gets a clear run with all green lights. Once it gets into the older tunnels it doesn't seem to go as fast, bearing in mind the stops are closer together. Past Finchley Road (surface level) it is faster again, but not quite as fast as the Bermondsey to Canada water stretch.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 6, 2014 15:24:59 GMT
I don't like the Northern or Piccadilly stock either, the Northern is the one I dislike the most. I love the Picadilly line stock, especially when thrashing between Hammersmith and Acton town. They are my 2nd favourite after the Jubilee line's stock. I like the northern line as well, but don't like how the computer keeps stabbing the throttle in the tunnel instead of a constant high speed.... Especially on the Morden branch where the tunnels are mostly straight enough for a good trash. The 72 stock were best at that. My own favourite is the 1992 stock on the Central Line, I love how they have such a unique idle, the sound they make when accelerating and how ridiculously quick they are. After that, the Bakerloo stock are my next favourite - dilapidated & slow but it's the sound I like. They are also far more comfortable than some of the newer stock around. The identical 1967 stock that the Victoria Line had were better sounding though and faster.
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Post by COBO on Jul 6, 2014 15:38:29 GMT
I like the 1973 Tube Stock on the Piccadilly line, 1992 Tube Stock on the Central Line and the D Stock on the District Line are my favourites because I like the way they look and sound. I always wondered could the Tube stock be powered with the third rail?
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 7, 2014 0:29:28 GMT
I like the 1973 Tube Stock on the Piccadilly line, 1992 Tube Stock on the Central Line and the D Stock on the District Line are my favourites because I like the way they look and sound. I always wondered could the Tube stock be powered with the third rail? potentially yes, the 4th rail in the middle is just the return rail for the power, but it looks like in the near future Network Rail are looking to eventually replace 3rd rail in the south with conventional overhead wires... the Basingstoke to Southampton section of South West Trains will be converted in 2 years or so. They will see how it runs then extend the wires to Waterloo. 3rd rail is inefficient in that lots more power is lost and the system fails in the autumn with leaf residue causing issues, then snow and ice mess it up in winter. I like the 73 stock but it's beginning to show its age...
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Post by paulsw2 on Jul 7, 2014 2:36:45 GMT
I like the 1973 Tube Stock on the Piccadilly line, 1992 Tube Stock on the Central Line and the D Stock on the District Line are my favourites because I like the way they look and sound. I always wondered could the Tube stock be powered with the third rail? potentially yes, the 4th rail in the middle is just the return rail for the power, but it looks like in the near future Network Rail are looking to eventually replace 3rd rail in the south with conventional overhead wires... the Basingstoke to Southampton section of South West Trains will be converted in 2 years or so. They will see how it runs then extend the wires to Waterloo. 3rd rail is inefficient in that lots more power is lost and the system fails in the autumn with leaf residue causing issues, then snow and ice mess it up in winter. I like the 73 stock but it's beginning to show its age... The problem with overhead is if it gets tangled or breaks the disruption is total chaos as nothing can run
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Post by COBO on Jul 7, 2014 2:40:56 GMT
I like the 1973 Tube Stock on the Piccadilly line, 1992 Tube Stock on the Central Line and the D Stock on the District Line are my favourites because I like the way they look and sound. I always wondered could the Tube stock be powered with the third rail? potentially yes, the 4th rail in the middle is just the return rail for the power, but it looks like in the near future Network Rail are looking to eventually replace 3rd rail in the south with conventional overhead wires... the Basingstoke to Southampton section of South West Trains will be converted in 2 years or so. They will see how it runs then extend the wires to Waterloo. 3rd rail is inefficient in that lots more power is lost and the system fails in the autumn with leaf residue causing issues, then snow and ice mess it up in winter. I like the 73 stock but it's beginning to show its age... Thanks ServerKing. Could Tube stock be powered under it's own power in other words without electricity?
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 7, 2014 8:01:42 GMT
paulsw2 that's always a risk, or a pantograph tearing the thing down... modern lines have tensioning stuff that keeps the wires tight so wires coming down not as common as it used to be. COBO, Yes, they are trialling new pedal-powered 'P' Stock as we speak on the Waterloo & City line. You have to be pretty fit to operate the trains though, so it requires 8 members of staff at the pedals in each carriage, and they have to switch ends when the train returns to Bank
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Post by Hassaan on Jul 7, 2014 8:22:39 GMT
Maybe it's just me but I really haven't noticed the 1996 stock get faster since the ATO upgrade... If you can try riding one from Bermondsey to London Bridge, which to me it's where it goes the fastest when it gets a clear run with all green lights. Once it gets into the older tunnels it doesn't seem to go as fast, bearing in mind the stops are closer together. Past Finchley Road (surface level) it is faster again, but not quite as fast as the Bermondsey to Canada water stretch. Best bit is Canada Water to Canary Wharf.
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Post by Hassaan on Jul 7, 2014 9:47:18 GMT
potentially yes, the 4th rail in the middle is just the return rail for the power, but it looks like in the near future Network Rail are looking to eventually replace 3rd rail in the south with conventional overhead wires... the Basingstoke to Southampton section of South West Trains will be converted in 2 years or so. They will see how it runs then extend the wires to Waterloo. 3rd rail is inefficient in that lots more power is lost and the system fails in the autumn with leaf residue causing issues, then snow and ice mess it up in winter. I like the 73 stock but it's beginning to show its age... The problem with overhead is if it gets tangled or breaks the disruption is total chaos as nothing can run The issue is mainly on the ECML, because of the way the system was constructed. Most overhead electrification schemes have the wires held up by a solid gantry above the tracks, however the ECML and London-Area GWML instead have several wires strung between two posts which hold up the rest of the system, called headspans. Now, if the wires holding up the entire thing get damaged then there are a lot of issues as nothing can run, whereas in gantry areas some sort of service can still be provided. And losses are a major issue in third rail areas, all modern stock is powered down to limit current draw otherwise it would overload the supply, and feeder substations have to be no more than 2 miles away (on 25kV AC this easily reaches double digits).
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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2014 11:34:22 GMT
I like the 1973 Tube Stock on the Piccadilly line, 1992 Tube Stock on the Central Line and the D Stock on the District Line are my favourites because I like the way they look and sound. I always wondered could the Tube stock be powered with the third rail? potentially yes, the 4th rail in the middle is just the return rail for the power, but it looks like in the near future Network Rail are looking to eventually replace 3rd rail in the south with conventional overhead wires... the Basingstoke to Southampton section of South West Trains will be converted in 2 years or so. They will see how it runs then extend the wires to Waterloo. 3rd rail is inefficient in that lots more power is lost and the system fails in the autumn with leaf residue causing issues, then snow and ice mess it up in winter. I like the 73 stock but it's beginning to show its age... I believe the lunatic scheme to string wires from Basingstoke to Southampton is "under review". I doubt it'll happen in 2 years or even at all. I rather suspect the rolling stock consequences and costs have not been thought through properly. Easy for Network Rail to propose this but they don't carry the costs of modifying / replacing the rolling stock. It's not clear the freight companies are bought into electric haulage into Southampton and there's no obvious strategy yet for where any new passenger services using the "Electric Spine" via Milton Keynes and Oxford would run and *who* would run them. There are big possibilities for through services from all sorts of places and lots of choice as to what gets added to / changed in TOC operating territories.
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 7, 2014 12:25:17 GMT
Snoggle, this "lunatic scheme" has already been signed off... my timeframe may be a little off but it is definitely going ahead. SWT are reviewing stock they will scrap, anything they cannot fit a pantograph to and convert from DC to AC. I think they are already fitting some stock with new AC traction motors. Stuff like the Class 442 and 456 will go, the newer stock like the 450 Desiro's can be converted to Dual Voltage.
They are looking to get rid of 3rd rail altogether as it's obsolete and inefficient... but we are still looking at years down the line...
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