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Post by snoggle on Sept 3, 2014 11:55:41 GMT
TfL have today launched consultation on two huge cycle schemes that affect Central London. They are the e-w route along the Embankment from Tower Hill to Westminster and then through Parliament Sq, the Royal Parks and around Lancaster Gate. The second is the N-S route from Kings Cross to Elephant via Farringdon. I've only scanned the plans quickly but there will clearly be big issues for bus routes on the N-S corridor and at Parliament Square. There will also be impacts for Commuter Coaches and Sightseeing services with the changes on the Embankment and Lower Thames St. North South ConsultationEast West Consultation |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 12:06:04 GMT
TfL have today launched consultation on two huge cycle schemes that affect Central London. They are the e-w route along the Embankment from Tower Hill to Westminster and then through Parliament Sq, the Royal Parks and around Lancaster Gate. The second is the N-S route from Kings Cross to Elephant via Farringdon. I've only scanned the plans quickly but there will clearly be big issues for bus routes on the N-S corridor and at Parliament Square. There will also be impacts for Commuter Coaches and Sightseeing services with the changes on the Embankment and Lower Thames St. North South ConsultationEast West ConsultationOh joy! £900m spent on slowing traffic even further thus creating even more pollution ... someone must get a kick out of paying millions of tax payers pounds to Europe over air quality fines. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 3, 2014 13:38:14 GMT
Ironic that TfL love promoting speeding up journey times on public transport and yet here they are slowing it all down - ridiculous!
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Post by John tuthill on Sept 3, 2014 13:52:35 GMT
Ironic that TfL love promoting speeding up journey times on public transport and yet here they are slowing it all down - ridiculous! So once again the poor(financially) motorist is paying for the lycra louts. The money would be better spent on COMPULSARY training for them all, and the instance that the all have 3rd party insurance  |
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Post by routew15 on Sept 3, 2014 19:42:23 GMT
Although the routes may not have a positive impact on road traffic most of the cycle tracks are going to be substantial parts of London's infrastructure. As much as I'd prefer the money to be spent on the Bus network, that is not going to happen as it is not as cheap and as green as cycling is. The routes are going to be detrimental to road traffic when they start off but after people gradually get used to the fact "the bike is king" most other forms of transport will see a decrease in usage. This is a big shift in transport modes but nothing will happen overnight. This switch will happen and it is at least good that London is ahead of the change and not behind.
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Post by sid on Sept 5, 2014 8:25:07 GMT
Ironic that TfL love promoting speeding up journey times on public transport and yet here they are slowing it all down - ridiculous! So once again the poor(financially) motorist is paying for the lycra louts. The money would be better spent on COMPULSARY training for them all, and the instance that the all have 3rd party insurance Lycra louts? Talk about stereotyping!! How many motorists are driving around without third party insurance and in some cases without a licence? Obviously we don't know but going by the amount the police apprehend on a daily basis it is a substantial amount. Clearly any compulsory training or insurance for cyclists would be totally unworkable and impossible to enforce. I notice you include the 'poor down trodden motorist' line..............forgive me if I don't burst into tears and yes I am a motorist myself. I happen to think this is an excellent idea and all credit to Boris for sticking two fingers up to the motoring lobby and implementing something that should have been done years ago. |
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Post by John tuthill on Sept 5, 2014 9:44:43 GMT
So once again the poor(financially) motorist is paying for the lycra louts. The money would be better spent on COMPULSARY training for them all, and the instance that the all have 3rd party insurance Lycra louts? Talk about stereotyping!! How many motorists are driving around without third party insurance and in some cases without a licence? Obviously we don't know but going by the amount the police apprehend on a daily basis it is a substantial amount. Clearly any compulsory training or insurance for cyclists would be totally unworkable and impossible to enforce. I notice you include the 'poor down trodden motorist' line..............forgive me if I don't burst into tears and yes I am a motorist myself. I happen to think this is an excellent idea and all credit to Boris for sticking two fingers up to the motoring lobby and implementing something that should have been done years ago. Sid, I appreciate your point of view. I don't go in for 'sterotyping' as such, but in the last 5 months I've been hit by a cyclist on the pavement, nearly run down on a pelican crossing and had my shopping strewn across the road whilst I'm on a zebra crossing all by cyclists wearing lycra. As for the 'poor down trodden motorist' I do feel like that at times. Why shouldn't cyclist honour the Highway Code? Yes I know there are motorist out there with no tax/MOT/insurance, and I sometimes wonder 'what's the point in complying' There's only so much road space in London, and yes EVERYBODY who uses it should be aware of everyone around them.  |
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Post by RM5chris on Sept 5, 2014 10:14:57 GMT
Lycra louts? Talk about stereotyping!! How many motorists are driving around without third party insurance and in some cases without a licence? Obviously we don't know but going by the amount the police apprehend on a daily basis it is a substantial amount. Clearly any compulsory training or insurance for cyclists would be totally unworkable and impossible to enforce. I notice you include the 'poor down trodden motorist' line..............forgive me if I don't burst into tears and yes I am a motorist myself. I happen to think this is an excellent idea and all credit to Boris for sticking two fingers up to the motoring lobby and implementing something that should have been done years ago. Sid, I appreciate your point of view. I don't go in for 'sterotyping' as such, but in the last 5 months I've been hit by a cyclist on the pavement, nearly run down on a pelican crossing and had my shopping strewn across the road whilst I'm on a zebra crossing all by cyclists wearing lycra. As for the 'poor down trodden motorist' I do feel like that at times. Why shouldn't cyclist honour the Highway Code? Yes I know there are motorist out there with no tax/MOT/insurance, and I sometimes wonder 'what's the point in complying' There's only so much road space in London, and yes EVERYBODY who uses it should be aware of everyone around them. I will state I am a Cyclist for work transport (to and from) at the outset! My experience is the opposite - I have nearly been run over twice recently - both whilst as a pedestrian and by car drivers just not looking/concentrating on what they are doing (one of them must have gone through a red light as I had the 'green man' to cross the road). I don't however tar every car driver with the same brush as 'why shouldn't every driver honour the highway code / law' as I know that most do. The motorist is very quick to scream bloody murder at the cyclist and seem blind to the fact that sometimes that fault lies with them or other motorists. To be fair many cyclists obey the highway code we are not all jumping red lights / going through Zebras and giving way. ....and I don't wear lycra shorts, but am partial to a tight cycling jersey with either a beer livery or this (which I use quite often: - www.foska.com/underground-winter-cycling-jersey.html |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 5, 2014 11:22:17 GMT
Sid, I appreciate your point of view. I don't go in for 'sterotyping' as such, but in the last 5 months I've been hit by a cyclist on the pavement, nearly run down on a pelican crossing and had my shopping strewn across the road whilst I'm on a zebra crossing all by cyclists wearing lycra. As for the 'poor down trodden motorist' I do feel like that at times. Why shouldn't cyclist honour the Highway Code? Yes I know there are motorist out there with no tax/MOT/insurance, and I sometimes wonder 'what's the point in complying' There's only so much road space in London, and yes EVERYBODY who uses it should be aware of everyone around them. I will state I am a Cyclist for work transport (to and from) at the outset! My experience is the opposite - I have nearly been run over twice recently - both whilst as a pedestrian and by car drivers just not looking/concentrating on what they are doing (one of them must have gone through a red light as I had the 'green man' to cross the road). I don't however tar every car driver with the same brush as 'why shouldn't every driver honour the highway code / law' as I know that most do. The motorist is very quick to scream bloody murder at the cyclist and seem blind to the fact that sometimes that fault lies with them or other motorists. To be fair many cyclists obey the highway code we are not all jumping red lights / going through Zebras and giving way. ....and I don't wear lycra shorts, but am partial to a tight cycling jersey with either a beer livery or this (which I use quite often: - www.foska.com/underground-winter-cycling-jersey.htmlAnd I'm a pedestrian and I can tell you that I have more trouble with cyclists when crossing the road than motorists. I can also quite easily say that the majority of cyclists do not obey traffic signals and go through red lights whilst the green man is on for me to cross - majority of motorists do obey the traffic lights although you've always got a minority who think they are above the law. Cyclists also seem to think that one way streets don't apply to them either. You seem like your in the minority of cyclists who actually obey the signs & signals, shame there aren't more of you like that - maybe then, I'd have more sympathy. |
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Post by sid on Sept 5, 2014 12:10:27 GMT
Sid, I appreciate your point of view. I don't go in for 'sterotyping' as such, but in the last 5 months I've been hit by a cyclist on the pavement, nearly run down on a pelican crossing and had my shopping strewn across the road whilst I'm on a zebra crossing all by cyclists wearing lycra. As for the 'poor down trodden motorist' I do feel like that at times. Why shouldn't cyclist honour the Highway Code? Yes I know there are motorist out there with no tax/MOT/insurance, and I sometimes wonder 'what's the point in complying' There's only so much road space in London, and yes EVERYBODY who uses it should be aware of everyone around them. I will state I am a Cyclist for work transport (to and from) at the outset! My experience is the opposite - I have nearly been run over twice recently - both whilst as a pedestrian and by car drivers just not looking/concentrating on what they are doing (one of them must have gone through a red light as I had the 'green man' to cross the road). I don't however tar every car driver with the same brush as 'why shouldn't every driver honour the highway code / law' as I know that most do. The motorist is very quick to scream bloody murder at the cyclist and seem blind to the fact that sometimes that fault lies with them or other motorists. To be fair many cyclists obey the highway code we are not all jumping red lights / going through Zebras and giving way. ....and I don't wear lycra shorts, but am partial to a tight cycling jersey with either a beer livery or this (which I use quite often: - www.foska.com/underground-winter-cycling-jersey.htmlChris has said much of what I was going to say, yes there are idiots on bikes but surely the idiots in motor vehicles are far more of a danger? As you rightly say there is only so much road space in London which is why getting people out of cars and onto bikes is the way ahead, cycling is certainly far more popular in many other European countries where proper facilities are the norm. |
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Post by sid on Sept 5, 2014 12:13:32 GMT
I will state I am a Cyclist for work transport (to and from) at the outset! My experience is the opposite - I have nearly been run over twice recently - both whilst as a pedestrian and by car drivers just not looking/concentrating on what they are doing (one of them must have gone through a red light as I had the 'green man' to cross the road). I don't however tar every car driver with the same brush as 'why shouldn't every driver honour the highway code / law' as I know that most do. The motorist is very quick to scream bloody murder at the cyclist and seem blind to the fact that sometimes that fault lies with them or other motorists. To be fair many cyclists obey the highway code we are not all jumping red lights / going through Zebras and giving way. ....and I don't wear lycra shorts, but am partial to a tight cycling jersey with either a beer livery or this (which I use quite often: - www.foska.com/underground-winter-cycling-jersey.htmlAnd I'm a pedestrian and I can tell you that I have more trouble with cyclists when crossing the road than motorists. I can also quite easily say that the majority of cyclists do not obey traffic signals and go through red lights whilst the green man is on for me to cross - majority of motorists do obey the traffic lights although you've always got a minority who think they are above the law. Cyclists also seem to think that one way streets don't apply to them either. You seem like your in the minority of cyclists who actually obey the signs & signals, shame there aren't more of you like that - maybe then, I'd have more sympathy. You are making some very sweeping unsubstantiated statements. I don't think Chris is in a minority at all, I would suggest most cyclists and motorists obey the law but there is a significant number of both who don't. |
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Post by Paul on Sept 5, 2014 13:15:35 GMT
And I'm a pedestrian and I can tell you that I have more trouble with cyclists when crossing the road than motorists. I can also quite easily say that the majority of cyclists do not obey traffic signals and go through red lights whilst the green man is on for me to cross - majority of motorists do obey the traffic lights although you've always got a minority who think they are above the law. Cyclists also seem to think that one way streets don't apply to them either. You seem like your in the minority of cyclists who actually obey the signs & signals, shame there aren't more of you like that - maybe then, I'd have more sympathy. You are making some very sweeping unsubstantiated statements. I don't think Chris is in a minority at all, I would suggest most cyclists and motorists obey the law but there is a significant number of both who don't. As someone who is on the road for around 8 hours a day I see many more cyclists running red lights than motorists. Of course, running red lights isn't the only issue but it's probably the most visible problem when it comes to cyclists. Yes, there are cyclists who obey the Highway Code but my own observation (ie nothing scientific) suggests many more don't But this isn't confined to just cyclists. The number of motorists who blatantly ignore Highway Code Rule 223 is absolutely staggering. And, given I drive in the country a lot, the number of motorists who have no idea how to deal with horses on the road is ridiculous as well. I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that compulsory annual retesting should be brought it for each and every motorist. It's getting to the point where it's a free for all on the roads. And people wonder why their insurance keeps going up - those who bother with it anyway..... |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 5, 2014 14:06:44 GMT
And I'm a pedestrian and I can tell you that I have more trouble with cyclists when crossing the road than motorists. I can also quite easily say that the majority of cyclists do not obey traffic signals and go through red lights whilst the green man is on for me to cross - majority of motorists do obey the traffic lights although you've always got a minority who think they are above the law. Cyclists also seem to think that one way streets don't apply to them either. You seem like your in the minority of cyclists who actually obey the signs & signals, shame there aren't more of you like that - maybe then, I'd have more sympathy. You are making some very sweeping unsubstantiated statements. I don't think Chris is in a minority at all, I would suggest most cyclists and motorists obey the law but there is a significant number of both who don't. I make my statements based on my observations - stand opposite McDonalds when the police patrols aren't observing the junction or stand at any junction along Brixton Hill and you'll understand what I mean. |
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Post by mondraker275 on Sept 5, 2014 20:31:39 GMT
Cyclists can be seen passing red lights more often than not in my experience. If I start counting from today to next week I wont be surprised if it was 20-0 against cars. The excuse I hear is so they 'get ahead of traffic' but I think it is that is quite alot of effort to stop and start again, and they sometimes cannot be bothered as they think it is safe, and also the camera high up on the lamppost cant read the cycles license plate...oh wait.
In my opinion, the issues with cycling are not necessarily going to be solved by infrastructure, but by behaviour of all, as well as assisting people as much as they can with technology, even as simple as having mirrors at all junctions. Anyone who has seen the segregated lanes at Stratford will see that they make little difference apart from putting cyclist in more of a false feling of safety
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Post by routew15 on Sept 5, 2014 22:10:41 GMT
Speaking as someone who has cycled on the road for 1/4 of a mile, it puts you in a vulnerable situation where you feel the pressure of cars, buses and even motor bikes on your tail wheel, it is very nerve racking. I don't agree with (nor do I support) skipping red lights it is very dangerous and unfair to pedestrians. I see why cyclist do it cause the cyclist box is not anywhere near a significant head start, but if you can't take the heat get out the kitchen (or in this case get out the road) if your road cycling confidence is low don't be in the road, use a segregated lane or tow paths and this is why I totally agree with the East - West and North - South Cycle Superhighway, it puts cyclist in a safer place where they can't be a nuisance to cars, buses etc.
I can guarantee that there is no false sense of safety in a fully segrated or even semi segrated cycle lane because you are not sharing your road space with larger vehicles it's just with other bikes. When the Cycle superhighways lose there segregation it becomes very dangerous because you're back to the bog standard, in the road lane, which has no protection.
It's unfair to use inaccurate and untrue statistics about skipping lights espically when it's far from true because like many I've seen Buses, Taxi, Cars, Motobikes, even roller skaters (not at the same time) all skip red lights.
I agree though that infrastructure is not the only solution; attitude, infrastructure and punishments are crucial. The needs to be less emphasis on cars more on bikes and buses. The punishment is not one side and focuses on punching cyclist and vehicles, I have no clue how the former will be inforced but more needs to be done.
After the N/S & E/W superhighways are introduced the next infrastructure I personally would like to see is the cycle hire scheme extended out to all areas within zone 3 to encourage urban / suburban to city cycling and Mini Holland to Mini Holland cycling, for those who have not got bikes.
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