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Post by abc on May 1, 2019 16:27:24 GMT
Mmmmm I was at Marylebone station earlier today and the tiles for the 2 were still on the bus stop. iBus was still showing the 2 as stopping at the station when it hasn't stopped there for weeks. No reduction in the quality of service there at all!!!! NOT. My experience is that some 2's still use the stops. I guess it depends on the driver.
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Post by redbus on May 1, 2019 17:50:46 GMT
Mmmmm I was at Marylebone station earlier today and the tiles for the 2 were still on the bus stop. iBus was still showing the 2 as stopping at the station when it hasn't stopped there for weeks. No reduction in the quality of service there at all!!!! NOT. My experience is that some 2's still use the stops. I guess it depends on the driver. The 2s still use Marylebone station when terminating before going onto stand, they don't going the other way with the first stop now being on the Marylebone Road a little past Marylebone station.
As for there being no reduction in quality, what about the 100+ bus routes which have had frequency reductions? Ask a 31 passenger if they think the quality of the service is the same as it used to be!
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Post by sid on May 1, 2019 18:22:28 GMT
My experience is that some 2's still use the stops. I guess it depends on the driver. The 2s still use Marylebone station when terminating before going onto stand, they don't going the other way with the first stop now being on the Marylebone Road a little past Marylebone station.
As for there being no reduction in quality, what about the 100+ bus routes which have had frequency reductions? Ask a 31 passenger if they think the quality of the service is the same as it used to be!
Funny that you mention the 31, I seem to recall predictions of ram packed buses and people being left behind at Camden Town because of the frequency reduction but nothing much since. I must say I was a bit dubious about it but I was in Camden Town recently and no sign of any overcrowding on the 31 from what I saw. I'll probably not be popular saying this but putting my pragmatic hat on I can't see how a decline in usage can mean anything other than cuts in services.
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Post by redbus on May 1, 2019 18:35:44 GMT
The 2s still use Marylebone station when terminating before going onto stand, they don't going the other way with the first stop now being on the Marylebone Road a little past Marylebone station.
As for there being no reduction in quality, what about the 100+ bus routes which have had frequency reductions? Ask a 31 passenger if they think the quality of the service is the same as it used to be!
Funny that you mention the 31, I seem to recall predictions of ram packed buses and people being left behind at Camden Town because of the frequency reduction but nothing much since. I must say I was a bit dubious about it but I was in Camden Town recently and no sign of any overcrowding on the 31 from what I saw. I'll probably not be popular saying this but putting my pragmatic hat on I can't see how a decline in usage can mean anything other than cuts in services. It is partly a case of chicken and eggs. Initially after the last frequency reduction many buses were rammed full. This is less so now because the less frequent rammed full buses have driven away passengers. I am sure there has been a decline in patronage on the 31 as a direct result of the frequency reductions.
I really don't think it is a good thing to reduce frequencies and drive passengers away as a result.
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Post by redexpress on May 2, 2019 8:43:41 GMT
Funny that you mention the 31, I seem to recall predictions of ram packed buses and people being left behind at Camden Town because of the frequency reduction but nothing much since. I must say I was a bit dubious about it but I was in Camden Town recently and no sign of any overcrowding on the 31 from what I saw. I'll probably not be popular saying this but putting my pragmatic hat on I can't see how a decline in usage can mean anything other than cuts in services. It is partly a case of chicken and eggs. Initially after the last frequency reduction many buses were rammed full. This is less so now because the less frequent rammed full buses have driven away passengers. I am sure there has been a decline in patronage on the 31 as a direct result of the frequency reductions.
I really don't think it is a good thing to reduce frequencies and drive passengers away as a result.
Exactly. Look at what Paris have just done. Faced with a reduction in bus patronage they have revamped the network with a 15% increase in mileage, with many routes getting frequency improvements. The logic being "well people are deserting the bus network, let's see how we can make the network better to get passengers back". Whereas here the logic is "well people are deserting the bus network, let's make the network worse and see if they come back". Err...
Granted Paris have the sort of funding that London can only dream of these days. But that's the point - in a major city the public transport network should be properly funded.
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Post by sid on May 2, 2019 8:54:15 GMT
It is partly a case of chicken and eggs. Initially after the last frequency reduction many buses were rammed full. This is less so now because the less frequent rammed full buses have driven away passengers. I am sure there has been a decline in patronage on the 31 as a direct result of the frequency reductions.
I really don't think it is a good thing to reduce frequencies and drive passengers away as a result.
Exactly. Look at what Paris have just done. Faced with a reduction in bus patronage they have revamped the network with a 15% increase in mileage, with many routes getting frequency improvements. The logic being "well people are deserting the bus network, let's see how we can make the network better to get passengers back". Whereas here the logic is "well people are deserting the bus network, let's make the network worse and see if they come back". Err...
Granted Paris have the sort of funding that London can only dream of these days. But that's the point - in a major city the public transport network should be properly funded.
I'm sure there is an element of that but in all honesty you don't have to look very far in London to see under utilised buses and I don't see how throwing more buses at the problem is going to help. I think we need a bit more emphasis on quality rather than quantity, high spec seating, usb charging points and free WiFi are pretty much the norm everywhere else nowadays. Bus usage in Nottingham is on the increase despite the economic situation.
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Post by vjaska on May 2, 2019 11:46:35 GMT
Exactly. Look at what Paris have just done. Faced with a reduction in bus patronage they have revamped the network with a 15% increase in mileage, with many routes getting frequency improvements. The logic being "well people are deserting the bus network, let's see how we can make the network better to get passengers back". Whereas here the logic is "well people are deserting the bus network, let's make the network worse and see if they come back". Err... Granted Paris have the sort of funding that London can only dream of these days. But that's the point - in a major city the public transport network should be properly funded.
I'm sure there is an element of that but in all honesty you don't have to look very far in London to see under utilised buses and I don't see how throwing more buses at the problem is going to help. I think we need a bit more emphasis on quality rather than quantity, high spec seating, usb charging points and free WiFi are pretty much the norm everywhere else nowadays. Bus usage in Nottingham is on the increase despite the economic situation. No matter how much quality you want, if the service isn't reliable, isn't as frequent or has been hacked to pieces, then people won't bother with it. Leather seats, WiFi & USB charging points are all well thought out ideas but the bread & butter stuff must be sorted out first which TfL are failing on. Has Nottingham cut frequencies, hacked routes back & reduced road space by installing cycle lanes?
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Post by sid on May 2, 2019 11:51:04 GMT
I'm sure there is an element of that but in all honesty you don't have to look very far in London to see under utilised buses and I don't see how throwing more buses at the problem is going to help. I think we need a bit more emphasis on quality rather than quantity, high spec seating, usb charging points and free WiFi are pretty much the norm everywhere else nowadays. Bus usage in Nottingham is on the increase despite the economic situation. No matter how much quality you want, if the service isn't reliable, isn't as frequent or has been hacked to pieces, then people won't bother with it. Leather seats, WiFi & USB charging points are all well thought out ideas but the bread & butter stuff must be sorted out first which TfL are failing on. Has Nottingham cut frequencies, hacked routes back & reduced road space by installing cycle lanes? Isn't reliable? I thought that was the reason so many buses sit at bus stops regulating the service? Which services have been hacked to pieces? Do you really think other bus operators around the UK have installed high spec seating, USB chargers and WiFi just for the fun of it?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 2, 2019 12:48:01 GMT
No matter how much quality you want, if the service isn't reliable, isn't as frequent or has been hacked to pieces, then people won't bother with it. Leather seats, WiFi & USB charging points are all well thought out ideas but the bread & butter stuff must be sorted out first which TfL are failing on. Has Nottingham cut frequencies, hacked routes back & reduced road space by installing cycle lanes? Isn't reliable? I thought that was the reason so many buses sit at bus stops regulating the service? Which services have been hacked to pieces? Do you really think other bus operators around the UK have installed high spec seating, USB chargers and WiFi just for the fun of it? They have installed them because in many cases they are competing with other operators, not to mention many journeys outside of London last far longer while in London the routes nor journeys are nowhere near as long.
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Post by busman on May 2, 2019 13:17:02 GMT
Isn't reliable? I thought that was the reason so many buses sit at bus stops regulating the service? Which services have been hacked to pieces? Do you really think other bus operators around the UK have installed high spec seating, USB chargers and WiFi just for the fun of it? They have installed them because in many cases they are competing with other operators, not to mention many journeys outside of London last far longer while in London the routes not journeys are nowhere near as long. If London buses had wifi, comfy seats, usb chargers and faster journeys (ie properly designated and clear bus lanes, express routes etc) I could happily sit on a bus from zone 4 to zone 1. It would certainly beat sitting on a class 376 or class 700.
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Post by sid on May 2, 2019 15:42:56 GMT
Isn't reliable? I thought that was the reason so many buses sit at bus stops regulating the service? Which services have been hacked to pieces? Do you really think other bus operators around the UK have installed high spec seating, USB chargers and WiFi just for the fun of it? They have installed them because in many cases they are competing with other operators, not to mention many journeys outside of London last far longer while in London the routes not journeys are nowhere near as long. They've installed them because that's what people expect nowadays just as they do in shops pubs and restaurants and they're used just as much on local journeys.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 2, 2019 15:43:56 GMT
They have installed them because in many cases they are competing with other operators, not to mention many journeys outside of London last far longer while in London the routes not journeys are nowhere near as long. They've installed them because that's what people expect nowadays just as they do in shops pubs and restaurants and they used just as much on local journeys. I don't expect them, I don't think many people in London expect them. What most people expect is a bus that'll get them from A to B in a decent amount of time.
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Post by sid on May 2, 2019 15:45:19 GMT
They've installed them because that's what people expect nowadays just as they do in shops pubs and restaurants and they used just as much on local journeys. I don't expect them, I don't think many people in London expect them. What most people expect is a bus that'll get them from A to B in a decent amount of time. That's up to you but WiFi is pretty much everywhere nowadays.
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Post by redbus on May 2, 2019 18:38:30 GMT
I don't expect them, I don't think many people in London expect them. What most people expect is a bus that'll get them from A to B in a decent amount of time. That's up to you but WiFi is pretty much everywhere nowadays. The seating in London buses certainly needs looking at. They are hard and much worse than they used to be. Some proper comfortable seating would be an excellent step forward. I like the idea of USB charging and think all buses should have it. What I find interesting is that the electric buses on the 46 have USB charging and as a regular on the route I have never seen anyone other than myself use it. Perhaps the problem is that it needs to be advertised, few realise the facility is there. WiFi I am less concerned over, most people have adequate data plans, it is not like the tube when you can't connect to a mobile network. I think pretty much everyone who wants to use data with their phone on the bus does so, I am unconvinced WiFi will attract more passengers except perhaps for long journeys.
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Post by george on May 2, 2019 18:41:41 GMT
That's up to you but WiFi is pretty much everywhere nowadays. The seating in London buses certainly needs looking at. They are hard and much worse than they used to be. Some proper comfortable seating would be an excellent step forward. I like the idea of USB charging and think all buses should have it. What I find interesting is that the electric buses on the 46 have USB charging and as a regular on the route I have never seen anyone other than myself use it. Perhaps the problem is that it needs to be advertised, few realise the facility is there. WiFi I am less concerned over, most people have adequate data plans, it is not like the tube when you can't connect to a mobile network. I think pretty much everyone who wants to use data with their phone on the bus does so, I am unconvinced WiFi will attract more passengers except perhaps for long journeys. Even though the X26 does have USB points I feel like it should have more comfy seats. I did use those chargers but now I don't find they drain battery very quickly nothing to do with my phone as it works everywhere else.
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