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Post by paulo on Oct 19, 2019 9:25:38 GMT
TfL have updated the changes list on their website, many extra changes tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/permanent-bus-changes24, 27, 34, 192, N27, timetable and Operator changes 50 changes in Croydon 60, 466 frequency increase 246 end of summer change 250, cutbacks (shortened and losing night service) 264, 405, 412, 433 cutbacks (shortened) 267 rerouted and Operator changed 274, 337, N207, timetable changes N250 new night route Shame I didn’t get round to doing the 246 to Chartwell this summer I would have thought they would swap the Fulwell terminus for the 33 and 267 but perhaps thats too obvious. LU Fulwell fast becoming a mainly single deck garage. From being all Metrobus 25-30 years ago that’s quite a shift.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2019 10:15:05 GMT
TfL have updated the changes list on their website, many extra changes tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/permanent-bus-changes24, 27, 34, 192, N27, timetable and Operator changes 50 changes in Croydon 60, 466 frequency increase 246 end of summer change 250, cutbacks (shortened and losing night service) 264, 405, 412, 433 cutbacks (shortened) 267 rerouted and Operator changed 274, 337, N207, timetable changes N250 new night route Overall, the Croydon changes are not as bad they could have been. Very pleased that the 60 is getting a frequency increase to every 10 minutes. The patronage on that route is ever increasing and it supports the 109 in Croydon (until it reaches Galpins Road). Also, I understand why the 250 cutback to West Croydon and I like the introduction the N250 service. However, it is a shame the 405 is being curtailed to Croydon Katherine Street. The 250 change is stupid because it will merely pile pressure onto the already busy 109 even with the frequency increase on the 60 because anyone wanting Streatham & beyond from that end of Croydon is forced to wait for the 50 which isn't as high frequency as the 250 - your not going to get a 60 unless merely wanting the southern end of London Road. Furthermore, it means those using the 250, which is very busy in its own right, now has to change buses to access it - another way of how to get promote easy access in public transport - NOT!
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Post by E279 on Oct 19, 2019 10:22:41 GMT
Overall, the Croydon changes are not as bad they could have been. Very pleased that the 60 is getting a frequency increase to every 10 minutes. The patronage on that route is ever increasing and it supports the 109 in Croydon (until it reaches Galpins Road). Also, I understand why the 250 cutback to West Croydon and I like the introduction the N250 service. However, it is a shame the 405 is being curtailed to Croydon Katherine Street. The 250 change is stupid because it will merely pile pressure onto the already busy 109 even with the frequency increase on the 60 because anyone wanting Streatham & beyond from that end of Croydon is forced to wait for the 50 which isn't as high frequency as the 250 - your not going to get a 60 unless merely wanting the southern end of London Road. Furthermore, it means those using the 250, which is very busy in its own right, now has to change buses to access it - another way of how to get promote easy access in public transport - NOT! Doesn’t the 250 and 109 share the majority of its route? Maybe an increase in frequency on the 50 but I do think these aren’t as bad as they were.
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Oct 19, 2019 10:26:46 GMT
Overall, the Croydon changes are not as bad they could have been. Very pleased that the 60 is getting a frequency increase to every 10 minutes. The patronage on that route is ever increasing and it supports the 109 in Croydon (until it reaches Galpins Road). Also, I understand why the 250 cutback to West Croydon and I like the introduction the N250 service. However, it is a shame the 405 is being curtailed to Croydon Katherine Street. The 250 change is stupid because it will merely pile pressure onto the already busy 109 even with the frequency increase on the 60 because anyone wanting Streatham & beyond from that end of Croydon is forced to wait for the 50 which isn't as high frequency as the 250 - your not going to get a 60 unless merely wanting the southern end of London Road. Furthermore, it means those using the 250, which is very busy in its own right, now has to change buses to access it - another way of how to get promote easy access in public transport - NOT! I would argue that people wanting to get from Brixton to Croydon and back already take the 109 instead of the 250 because the 109 is more direct. The 250's cutback is understandable, it only loses 5% of it's route and the section where it sees most usage has been retained. In this age of cuts, I think Croydon's changes/cuts has come off quite lightly with the addition of frequency increases and the double deck conversions.
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 19, 2019 10:28:13 GMT
Overall, the Croydon changes are not as bad they could have been. Very pleased that the 60 is getting a frequency increase to every 10 minutes. The patronage on that route is ever increasing and it supports the 109 in Croydon (until it reaches Galpins Road). Also, I understand why the 250 cutback to West Croydon and I like the introduction the N250 service. However, it is a shame the 405 is being curtailed to Croydon Katherine Street. The 250 change is stupid because it will merely pile pressure onto the already busy 109 even with the frequency increase on the 60 because anyone wanting Streatham & beyond from that end of Croydon is forced to wait for the 50 which isn't as high frequency as the 250 - your not going to get a 60 unless merely wanting the southern end of London Road. Furthermore, it means those using the 250, which is very busy in its own right, now has to change buses to access it - another way of how to get promote easy access in public transport - NOT! If you are in the High St or Whitgift Centre, think all that will happen is those that would have headed to Park Street or Wellesley Road will head to West Croydon, or vice versa for the 405 and 412 ... so don't think it will be as bad as some people are expecting
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2019 13:06:24 GMT
The 250 change is stupid because it will merely pile pressure onto the already busy 109 even with the frequency increase on the 60 because anyone wanting Streatham & beyond from that end of Croydon is forced to wait for the 50 which isn't as high frequency as the 250 - your not going to get a 60 unless merely wanting the southern end of London Road. Furthermore, it means those using the 250, which is very busy in its own right, now has to change buses to access it - another way of how to get promote easy access in public transport - NOT! Doesn’t the 250 and 109 share the majority of its route? Maybe an increase in frequency on the 50 but I do think these aren’t as bad as they were. Have you used either route? The 109 is the 2nd busiest route south of the river whilst the 250 is busy in its own right hence why both routes are high frequency. Yes they share a large section together but the corridor is one of the busiest in London due to the reliance on the bus and one I’ve used practically my whole life.
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Post by E279 on Oct 19, 2019 13:10:27 GMT
Doesn’t the 250 and 109 share the majority of its route? Maybe an increase in frequency on the 50 but I do think these aren’t as bad as they were. Have you used either route? The 109 is the 2nd busiest route south of the river whilst the 250 is busy in its own right hence why both routes are high frequency. Yes they share a large section together but the corridor is one of the busiest in London due to the reliance on the bus and one I’ve used practically my whole life. At the same time, are you telling me that the route is that busy at West Croydon that the remaining passengers cannot jump on a bus from West Croydon into Croydon Town Center?
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2019 13:13:10 GMT
The 250 change is stupid because it will merely pile pressure onto the already busy 109 even with the frequency increase on the 60 because anyone wanting Streatham & beyond from that end of Croydon is forced to wait for the 50 which isn't as high frequency as the 250 - your not going to get a 60 unless merely wanting the southern end of London Road. Furthermore, it means those using the 250, which is very busy in its own right, now has to change buses to access it - another way of how to get promote easy access in public transport - NOT! If you are in the High St or Whitgift Centre, think all that will happen is those that would have headed to Park Street or Wellesley Road will head to West Croydon, or vice versa for the 405 and 412 ... so don't think it will be as bad as some people are expecting If your at Park Street, your going to get the other routes that serve there rather than walk especially if your elderly, have children with you or are disabled rather than walk to West Croydon. Park Street is a busy stop and I don’t see people start abandoning it. Have to say, very surprised to see people defending these changes at a time when we really should be supporting public transport and the ease of access it brings - this forces people to have to use certain stops and doesn’t spread capacity across Croydon.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2019 13:19:42 GMT
Have you used either route? The 109 is the 2nd busiest route south of the river whilst the 250 is busy in its own right hence why both routes are high frequency. Yes they share a large section together but the corridor is one of the busiest in London due to the reliance on the bus and one I’ve used practically my whole life. At the same time, are you telling me that the route is that busy at West Croydon that the remaining passengers cannot jump on a bus from West Croydon into Croydon Town Center? Your missing the point presumably because you haven’t used these routes - stand at Park Street and you’ll see how busy the stop is and how many people board certain routes there nothrbound. Croydon Town Centre stretches for quite a distance and doesn’t simply encompass one stop - people shouldn’t have to change buses to go the few stops they need when an alternative is already in place.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2019 13:26:04 GMT
If your at Park Street, your going to get the other routes that serve there rather than walk especially if your elderly, have children with you or are disabled rather than walk to West Croydon. Park Street is a busy stop and I don’t see people start abandoning it. Have to say, very surprised to see people defending these changes at a time when we really should be supporting public transport and the ease of access it brings - this forces people to have to use certain stops and doesn’t spread capacity across Croydon. At the same time, not everyone's opinion is going to be that of yours, you seem to be very closed to our comments of the Croydon changes. I cannot see the 250s change in particular causing much disruption. Personally, as I have used Croydon quite a bit recently, I defend the majority of these changes but not all of it. Its not like TFL have cut the connections between Croydon and WC, there are just simply less. Sorry but I’m merely giving my opinion so don’t know where your coming from that ‘I’m closed’ to your comments - respect the fact that I don’t happen to agree with you because it works both ways! Don’t take this the wrong way but I’ve been using the Croydon routes far longer than yourself and including a three year period where I studied in Croydon so just using a few routes doesn’t mean much the same way me using East London routes recently doesn’t mean anything. The other two commenters live in Croydon which is what surprised me more about their agreement hence my reaction.
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Post by busaholic on Oct 19, 2019 14:09:19 GMT
Doesn’t the 250 and 109 share the majority of its route? Maybe an increase in frequency on the 50 but I do think these aren’t as bad as they were. Have you used either route? The 109 is the 2nd busiest route south of the river whilst the 250 is busy in its own right hence why both routes are high frequency. Yes they share a large section together but the corridor is one of the busiest in London due to the reliance on the bus and one I’ve used practically my whole life. I'm only an occasional user of any bus route in London now, but when I am the 109 and 250 are prominent, for my trips to Croydon from Streatham Hill: personally, I'll catch whichever bus comes along first, as neither is an LT, but I understand those with more pressure on their time might elect for a 109. Mind you, last time I caught a 250 it arrived in Croydon just before the 109 I'd just missed.
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 19, 2019 14:13:50 GMT
If you are in the High St or Whitgift Centre, think all that will happen is those that would have headed to Park Street or Wellesley Road will head to West Croydon, or vice versa for the 405 and 412 ... so don't think it will be as bad as some people are expecting If your at Park Street, your going to get the other routes that serve there rather than walk especially if your elderly, have children with you or are disabled rather than walk to West Croydon. Park Street is a busy stop and I don’t see people start abandoning it. Have to say, very surprised to see people defending these changes at a time when we really should be supporting public transport and the ease of access it brings - this forces people to have to use certain stops and doesn’t spread capacity across Croydon. There maybe a small minority ... I play poker with a large group of varying age and demographics in a bar near the flyover, and the number who choose to walk to East or West Croydon rather than wait in Katherine/Park Street is probably the majority, although not a staggering majority ... yes it may inconvenience some ... those with social mobility issues and the lazy ... and dont care much about the latter ... come on, how long does it take to walk from Katherine Street to West Croydon ... 5 minutes ... and I dont believe in pandering to the whim of parents ... it is a lifestyle choice and the journey is not far ... my parents managed a lot further. All in all should make routes far more reliable not having to cope with so much Central Croydon traffic, something you seem to normally champion. I bet if you and a 250 are at the corner of the High Street and Katherine St, it would be quicker to walk along the North End to West Croydon Station than catch that 250.
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Post by Max B on Oct 19, 2019 14:43:08 GMT
TfL have updated the changes list on their website, many extra changes tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/permanent-bus-changes24, 27, 34, 192, N27, timetable and Operator changes 50 changes in Croydon 60, 466 frequency increase 246 end of summer change 250, cutbacks (shortened and losing night service) 264, 405, 412, 433 cutbacks (shortened) 267 rerouted and Operator changed 274, 337, N207, timetable changes N250 new night route Wow, I was about to say there’s no way the 250 can lose it’s night service cause then that would leave Thornton Heath without a night route again which it was without before the N250 was introduced in 2003. Glad to see the “N250” making a return.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2019 15:04:30 GMT
If your at Park Street, your going to get the other routes that serve there rather than walk especially if your elderly, have children with you or are disabled rather than walk to West Croydon. Park Street is a busy stop and I don’t see people start abandoning it. Have to say, very surprised to see people defending these changes at a time when we really should be supporting public transport and the ease of access it brings - this forces people to have to use certain stops and doesn’t spread capacity across Croydon. There maybe a small minority ... I play poker with a large group of varying age and demographics in a bar near the flyover, and the number who chose to walk to East or West Croydon rather than wait in Katherine/Park Street is probably the majority, although not a staggering majority ... yes it may inconvenience some ... those with social mobility and the lazy ... and dont care much about the latter ... come on, how long does it take to walk from Katherine Street to West Croydon ... 5 minutes ... and I dont believe in pandering to the whim of parents ... it is a lifestyle choice and the journey is not far ... my parents managed a lot further. All in all should make routes far more reliable not having to cope with so much Central Croydon traffic, something you seem to normally champion. I bet if you and a 250 are at the corner of the High Street and Katherine St, it would be quicker to walk along the North End to West Croydon Station than catch that 250. Your correct that is something I do champion but equally I also recognise a balance as well between spreading out capacity especially in an area which has seen an increase in usage that has bucked the current trend. The 250 isn’t suffering in reliability as far as I know whilst I’ve been told the 264’s reliability has been improved along the Croydon Road corridor which would cancel out any issue within Croydon itself.
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Post by WSD3 on Oct 19, 2019 15:19:23 GMT
TfL have updated the changes list on their website, many extra changes tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/permanent-bus-changes24, 27, 34, 192, N27, timetable and Operator changes 50 changes in Croydon 60, 466 frequency increase 246 end of summer change 250, cutbacks (shortened and losing night service) 264, 405, 412, 433 cutbacks (shortened) 267 rerouted and Operator changed 274, 337, N207, timetable changes N250 new night route Wow, I was about to say there’s no way the 250 can lose it’s night service cause then that would leave Thornton Heath without a night route again which it was without before the N250 was introduced in 2003. Glad to see the “N250” making a return. I don't think it will be fully N250 i think it will be like the 148 at night as the day service run to Shepherd's Bush and the night service runs to White City
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