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Post by vjaska on Nov 21, 2019 12:46:40 GMT
I can back snowman up saying it *definitely* said 20 minutes daytime rather than 15 on the website. It obviously was a mistake that’s now been rectified I saw 20 minutes and questioned it at the time. Good to see every 15 minutes. Not sure about every 30 minutes in the evening though. I don’t envy local passengers on that route. Don't worry, TfL will likely axe the entire route in a few years as I can't see it working in it's current form at every 15 minutes especially as the District will now cover it's entire route so TfL have basically indirectly advertised the tube with this cut
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Post by busman on Nov 21, 2019 14:21:09 GMT
I suspect rerouting can be done without any need for a replacement if the 92 is diverted after the Clare Road stop via Berkeley Avenue (the old GSK entrance) emerging onto Greenford Road. I would think that new stops would be in the new Greystar development with a pair of new stops on Greenford Road adjacent to stops that will no longer be served (Oldfield Close). The 395 should be able to cope along Oldfield Lane North as its only like 1 or 2 stops to Greenford Station, so therefore won't need any replacement I don’t believe the 92 diversion will leave any current areas unserved and no extra burden will be placed on the 395. I’m expecting the proposed diversion to be something similar to: Southbound towards Ealing Hospital: Gainsboro Gardens stop Q (Whitton Avenue West junction, current LOR) Greenford Road (new stop parallel or near to existing stop Oldfield Close stop R, on Oldfield Lane North) Berkeley Avenue (new stop in the Greystar development) Currey Road (current LOR) Only stop missed is Oldfield Close at the top of Oldfield Lane North, but if you know the area you will know that it is right next to Greenford Road where alternative stops can be easily accommodated at minimum inconvenience. I wonder if Greenford Quay will be seen as a future turn...
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Post by vjaska on Nov 21, 2019 14:32:37 GMT
The 395 should be able to cope along Oldfield Lane North as its only like 1 or 2 stops to Greenford Station, so therefore won't need any replacement I don’t believe the 92 diversion will leave any current areas unserved and no extra burden will be placed on the 395. I’m expecting the proposed diversion to be something similar to: Southbound towards Ealing Hospital: Gainsboro Gardens stop Q (Whitton Avenue West junction, current LOR) Greenford Road (new stop parallel or near to existing stop Oldfield Close stop R, on Oldfield Lane North) Berkeley Avenue (new stop in the Greystar development) Currey Road (current LOR) Only stop missed is Oldfield Close at the top of Oldfield Lane North, but if you know the area you will know that it is right next to Greenford Road where alternative stops can be easily accommodated at minimum inconvenience. I wonder if Greenford Quay will be seen as a future turn... Not going to lie but I always found it odd that the 92 doesn't run via Greenford Road until Rockware Avenue even in at least one direction.
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Post by 6HP502C on Nov 21, 2019 14:40:16 GMT
I can back snowman up saying it *definitely* said 20 minutes daytime rather than 15 on the website. It obviously was a mistake that’s now been rectified I saw 20 minutes and questioned it at the time. Good to see every 15 minutes. Not sure about every 30 minutes in the evening though. I don’t envy local passengers on that route. What is showing on the Permanent Service Changes page now is what will be happening with the 391 come December the 7th
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 21, 2019 14:43:51 GMT
There is basically one link covered by the 391 and that's Richmond to Turnham Green once its cut to Hammersmith.
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Post by snowman on Nov 21, 2019 15:13:25 GMT
There is basically one link covered by the 391 and that's Richmond to Turnham Green once its cut to Hammersmith. The shortened 391 will have multiple other routes along its length, only really a short bit near Kew Gardens station that would require a walk if it was cut. Splits the distance between 65 and R68 (although as there are limited places to cross railway, 65 is probably easier). Multiple buses in Manor Circus area Most people doing Richmond - Turnham Green would either use tube, or 65 to Kew Bridge station then 237 or 267. Without the busy section the 60 capacity buses are probably going to be overkill which TfL might "rectify" when contract is renewed in December 2020 I think if they could work out a sensible turning loop near Kew Gardens station then extending a bus from Manor Circus would probably kill off remainder of 391.
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Post by busman on Nov 21, 2019 15:28:40 GMT
I don’t believe the 92 diversion will leave any current areas unserved and no extra burden will be placed on the 395. I’m expecting the proposed diversion to be something similar to: Southbound towards Ealing Hospital: Gainsboro Gardens stop Q (Whitton Avenue West junction, current LOR) Greenford Road (new stop parallel or near to existing stop Oldfield Close stop R, on Oldfield Lane North) Berkeley Avenue (new stop in the Greystar development) Currey Road (current LOR) Only stop missed is Oldfield Close at the top of Oldfield Lane North, but if you know the area you will know that it is right next to Greenford Road where alternative stops can be easily accommodated at minimum inconvenience. I wonder if Greenford Quay will be seen as a future turn... Not going to lie but I always found it odd that the 92 doesn't run via Greenford Road until Rockware Avenue even in at least one direction. Currey Road/Clare Road picks up a lot of custom from people living to the west of Oldfield Lane North. Historically the Greystar site (Greenfrd Quay) was home to thriving industry and many jobs which have long since departed. With the new school and Greenford Quay housing, the 92 will see good use along Oldfield Lane North.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 16:11:51 GMT
There is basically one link covered by the 391 and that's Richmond to Turnham Green once its cut to Hammersmith. The shortened 391 will have multiple other routes along its length, only really a short bit near Kew Gardens station that would require a walk if it was cut. Splits the distance between 65 and R68 (although as there are limited places to cross railway, 65 is probably easier). Multiple buses in Manor Circus area Most people doing Richmond - Turnham Green would either use tube, or 65 to Kew Bridge station then 237 or 267. Without the busy section the 60 capacity buses are probably going to be overkill which TfL might "rectify" when contract is renewed in December 2020 I think if they could work out a sensible turning loop near Kew Gardens station then extending a bus from Manor Circus would probably kill off remainder of 391. There is a bus stand at Kew Gardens Station. Could TfL do the 110 extension over the 391 now, instead of the previous planned 419 ?
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Post by busman on Nov 21, 2019 16:31:50 GMT
The shortened 391 will have multiple other routes along its length, only really a short bit near Kew Gardens station that would require a walk if it was cut. Splits the distance between 65 and R68 (although as there are limited places to cross railway, 65 is probably easier). Multiple buses in Manor Circus area Most people doing Richmond - Turnham Green would either use tube, or 65 to Kew Bridge station then 237 or 267. Without the busy section the 60 capacity buses are probably going to be overkill which TfL might "rectify" when contract is renewed in December 2020 I think if they could work out a sensible turning loop near Kew Gardens station then extending a bus from Manor Circus would probably kill off remainder of 391. There is a bus stand at Kew Gardens Station. Could TfL do the 110 extension over the 391 now, instead of the previous planned 419 ? I had noticed that the new frequency of the 391 will match that of the proposed 110 extension to Hammersmith. Not as beneficial as the extension over the 419 routing IMHO, but it would allow TfL to realise savings from the associated H22 and H37 changes.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 21, 2019 19:28:34 GMT
There is a bus stand at Kew Gardens Station. Could TfL do the 110 extension over the 391 now, instead of the previous planned 419 ? I had noticed that the new frequency of the 391 will match that of the proposed 110 extension to Hammersmith. Not as beneficial as the extension over the 419 routing IMHO, but it would allow TfL to realise savings from the associated H22 and H37 changes. Of course, existing 110 users end up with a worse service due to the gridlock around Kew so hopefully, that would be factored in should such a change occur. If I was to continue in pessimistic mode, I don't think the entire 391 would be covered by the 110 - probably merely an extension to Kew to keep a service along Sandycombe Road or a re-route of the R68. A much more radical idea would be combine the 218 & 391 together and double deck the route meaning you have something that provides new links without axeing. This would involve terminating the 218 at Acton Town Cente & keeping the 440 continuing to serve West Acton not to mention any issue around reliability of this amended 218 route but at least that '266 problem' is solved.
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 21, 2019 21:35:36 GMT
I can back snowman up saying it *definitely* said 20 minutes daytime rather than 15 on the website. It obviously was a mistake that’s now been rectified I saw 20 minutes and questioned it at the time. Good to see every 15 minutes. Not sure about every 30 minutes in the evening though. I don’t envy local passengers on that route. TfL have changed the webpage, the proposed frequency cut is now the same as was announced in the Elizabeth Line bus service changes consultation report. So am breathing a sigh of relief that the severe cut has been abandoned until they change the website again. Good that they know what they are doing! tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/permanent-bus-changes#on-this-page-17The frequency of route 391 will be revised with buses running every 15 minutes on Monday to Saturdays and every 20 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays.
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Post by ak121 on Nov 21, 2019 23:18:38 GMT
I don’t believe the 92 diversion will leave any current areas unserved and no extra burden will be placed on the 395. I’m expecting the proposed diversion to be something similar to: Southbound towards Ealing Hospital: Gainsboro Gardens stop Q (Whitton Avenue West junction, current LOR) Greenford Road (new stop parallel or near to existing stop Oldfield Close stop R, on Oldfield Lane North) Berkeley Avenue (new stop in the Greystar development) Currey Road (current LOR) Only stop missed is Oldfield Close at the top of Oldfield Lane North, but if you know the area you will know that it is right next to Greenford Road where alternative stops can be easily accommodated at minimum inconvenience. I wonder if Greenford Quay will be seen as a future turn... Not going to lie but I always found it odd that the 92 doesn't run via Greenford Road until Rockware Avenue even in at least one direction. I think its mainly to serve Greenford Station more directly perhaps?
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Post by rif153 on Nov 22, 2019 21:58:03 GMT
There is basically one link covered by the 391 and that's Richmond to Turnham Green once its cut to Hammersmith. The route will have so little purpose in its truncated form it is very hard to see it surviving. One almost wonders if TfL may try some more fiddling with buses in the Chiswick area. I'm also of the view that it is hard to see a future for the route in its new form. The one saving grace of the route is Sandycombe Road. Confidence in bus services in Chiswick High Road must have fallen already due to the 27 cutback, but this will undoubtedly push more people on to using the District Line to reach Hammersmith and beyond, the lack of that cross Hammersmith link for Chiswick is disgraceful. One thing which I think should be done to give the 391 more purpose is to divert the route via Wellesley Road increasing the range of destinations residents along there can acess given that the 440 change has failed so badly with a slump in usage, and Wellesley Road now having a bus service of little use now it only goes as far as Turnham Green.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 22, 2019 22:09:59 GMT
That's a good idea actually diverting the route via Wellesley Road as it would give the road a link again to Hammersmith. I have questioned aswell if a Richmond route could be extended up to Turnham Green to maintain a Richmond to Turnham Green link and a service along Sandycombe Road. Tfl did say that even with the 27 cut there were still more buses along Chiswick High Road then needed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 4:14:35 GMT
Historically, the 27 and 90 sections which the 391 replaced on the Richmond end were at most run x20 mins and never really busy. I remember summer sundays being the busiest day of the week on the 27s to Richmond. Agree about the 391 going down.Wellesley Rd.
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