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Post by vjaska on Apr 2, 2017 18:05:18 GMT
It's not much better today on the 13/139 as the diversions / road works all seem to still be in place. If anything the service is worse as there are larger gaps since the frequency on both routes is lower on a Sunday. LVF showing significant gaps between buses as well as bunching. London Sovereign and TT have their work cut out again. Hopefully the diversions / road works will be over by tomorrow, Monday, and let's see how well they run the service in more normal conditions. At least the 2 has greatly improved lool.
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Post by BusesInLondon on Apr 2, 2017 20:37:23 GMT
What a baptism of fire! Why? Diversions, diversions, diversions! Bus 139 has THREE diversions today. 1) West End Lane is closed, so it continues down Finchley Road to Finchley Road station, and then follows the C11 route back to line of route on West End Lane. 328 has same diversion. 2) Oxford Street. 3) Piccadilly Circus. To add to that there are temporary light at the junction of Abbey Road and Grove End Road (where the Abbey Road studios are). Bus 13 is also impacted by Oxford Street and by Bressenden Place works in Victoria. Buses 113 and 189 are being turned at Selfridges, and so are not serving Oxford Circus and Marble Arch respectively (which is why the blinds show Oxford Street Selfridges) It's a poor service on both the 13 and 139 as a result, with bunching of buses and significant gaps in service. I think I have seen just about every turn being proven on day 1! I was at Golders Green and London Sovereign must have been pulling their hair out. A number of drivers waiting to take out 139s, only no buses as they were running late. In an odd way the Finchley Road has had a good service overall north of Finchley Road station as the 139 and 328 have combined with the 13 and 113! We'll see what happens when normality returns. Yes whilst the drivers were waiting, one of the drivers were gossiping that one of the other drivers drove the bus on the old Route 13 route at Aldwych! I was quite suprised the public were very aware regarding these changes! The 139's service was worse than the 13's on Saturday I would say.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 21:01:56 GMT
What a baptism of fire! Why? Diversions, diversions, diversions! Bus 139 has THREE diversions today. 1) West End Lane is closed, so it continues down Finchley Road to Finchley Road station, and then follows the C11 route back to line of route on West End Lane. 328 has same diversion. 2) Oxford Street. 3) Piccadilly Circus. To add to that there are temporary light at the junction of Abbey Road and Grove End Road (where the Abbey Road studios are). Bus 13 is also impacted by Oxford Street and by Bressenden Place works in Victoria. Buses 113 and 189 are being turned at Selfridges, and so are not serving Oxford Circus and Marble Arch respectively (which is why the blinds show Oxford Street Selfridges) It's a poor service on both the 13 and 139 as a result, with bunching of buses and significant gaps in service. I think I have seen just about every turn being proven on day 1! I was at Golders Green and London Sovereign must have been pulling their hair out. A number of drivers waiting to take out 139s, only no buses as they were running late. In an odd way the Finchley Road has had a good service overall north of Finchley Road station as the 139 and 328 have combined with the 13 and 113! We'll see what happens when normality returns. It was exceptionally bad today but there is disruption in Central London virtually every weekend, I suspect this is a major factor in the decline in bus usage, the tube seems busier than ever. The widespread use of curtailments as opposed to using diversions in Central London started a few years ago. Before then, I remember routes like the 9 for example, running via Shaftesbury Avenue and Kingsway to reach Aldwych if Trafalgar Square was closed. It's as if Central London is given up on , shove everyone on the tube and run buses like on New Years Eve from Vuaxhall, Lambeth North, Hyde Park Corner etc. Not helpful for those stuck In the middle. Whenever I work in the west end, the amount of questions I get asked by tourists wanting to know where they can get a bus to wherever....not everyone wants to use the tube.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 21:05:48 GMT
What a baptism of fire! Why? Diversions, diversions, diversions! Bus 139 has THREE diversions today. 1) West End Lane is closed, so it continues down Finchley Road to Finchley Road station, and then follows the C11 route back to line of route on West End Lane. 328 has same diversion. 2) Oxford Street. 3) Piccadilly Circus. To add to that there are temporary light at the junction of Abbey Road and Grove End Road (where the Abbey Road studios are). Bus 13 is also impacted by Oxford Street and by Bressenden Place works in Victoria. Buses 113 and 189 are being turned at Selfridges, and so are not serving Oxford Circus and Marble Arch respectively (which is why the blinds show Oxford Street Selfridges) It's a poor service on both the 13 and 139 as a result, with bunching of buses and significant gaps in service. I think I have seen just about every turn being proven on day 1! I was at Golders Green and London Sovereign must have been pulling their hair out. A number of drivers waiting to take out 139s, only no buses as they were running late. In an odd way the Finchley Road has had a good service overall north of Finchley Road station as the 139 and 328 have combined with the 13 and 113! We'll see what happens when normality returns. Yes whilst the drivers were waiting, one of the drivers were gossiping that one of the other drivers drove the bus on the old Route 13 route at Aldwych! I was quite suprised the public were very aware regarding these changes! The 139's service was worse than the 13's on Saturday I would say. Im not surprised. The 139 had about 3 diversions, down narrow roads , and a demonstration near At Embankment which was as closed off causing gridlock on T Square !! I'm surprised they didn't turn them all at Baker Street.
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Post by sid on Apr 2, 2017 21:16:51 GMT
It was exceptionally bad today but there is disruption in Central London virtually every weekend, I suspect this is a major factor in the decline in bus usage, the tube seems busier than ever. The widespread use of curtailments as opposed to using diversions in Central London started a few years ago. Before then, I remember routes like the 9 for example, running via Shaftesbury Avenue and Kingsway to reach Aldwych if Trafalgar Square was closed. It's as if Central London is given up on , shove everyone on the tube and run buses like on New Years Eve from Vuaxhall, Lambeth North, Hyde Park Corner etc. Not helpful for those stuck In the middle. Whenever I work in the west end, the amount of questions I get asked by tourists wanting to know where they can get a bus to wherever....not everyone wants to use the tube. That's very much my experience as well, a lot of tourists seem totally bewildered by the bus network and just opt for the the tube or Uber instead.
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Post by Unorm on Apr 3, 2017 9:39:32 GMT
It's not much better today on the 13/139 as the diversions / road works all seem to still be in place. If anything the service is worse as there are larger gaps since the frequency on both routes is lower on a Sunday. LVF showing significant gaps between buses as well as bunching. London Sovereign and TT have their work cut out again. Hopefully the diversions / road works will be over by tomorrow, Monday, and let's see how well they run the service in more normal conditions. At least the 2 has greatly improved lool. According to LBR.net, 2 had it's peak frequency decreased and PVR set back to original 24. Only other reason behind it can be the amount of times Lambeth are trying to sort out the road layout along Norwood Road.
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Post by abc on Apr 4, 2017 17:29:53 GMT
I do not know what other people's impressions are, but TT take over of 13 (82) is not going well for me: Yesterday morning 13 was diverting through Belgravia when all other routes were back to normal. Then it stopped at the wrong Dorset Square stop. Just now MV38226 dropped me off because of engine trouble.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 4, 2017 17:49:14 GMT
I do not know what other people's impressions are, but TT take over of 13 (82) is not going well for me: Yesterday morning 13 was diverting through Belgravia when all other routes were back to normal. Then it stopped at the wrong Dorset Square stop. Just now MV38226 dropped me off because of engine trouble. TBF, it's only been a few days in so hardly can make a judgement this soon.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 4, 2017 22:08:42 GMT
I do not know what other people's impressions are, but TT take over of 13 (82) is not going well for me: Yesterday morning 13 was diverting through Belgravia when all other routes were back to normal. Then it stopped at the wrong Dorset Square stop. Just now MV38226 dropped me off because of engine trouble. TBF, it's only been a few days in so hardly can make a judgement this soon. You can bet your bottom dollar that the locals in Finchley, Golders Green and along the Finchley Road are already making their judgements!!
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Post by redbus on Apr 4, 2017 22:50:04 GMT
I do not know what other people's impressions are, but TT take over of 13 (82) is not going well for me: Yesterday morning 13 was diverting through Belgravia when all other routes were back to normal. Then it stopped at the wrong Dorset Square stop. Just now MV38226 dropped me off because of engine trouble.
To be honest neither the 13 nor 139 have been great, but we are only a few days in. To be fair last weekend both routes were impacted by multiple diversions / road works which didn't help. Today (Tuesday) the 139 did seem better, but London Sovereign have much previous experience with the 13 (a similar route) and their drivers will also be experienced (from the 13). TT are completely new to the route, as I suspect are their drivers, so it will take them longer. To make matters worse there are more road works planned for next weekend on the Finchley Road which will impact both the 13 and 139, so I suspect a second weekend of poor service is coming. Let's give it a while longer before passing judgement.
I do agree with snoggle that the locals will already be making their own judgement. The danger is that first impressions count, and might turn people away from the buses causing a further reduction in passengers. I am not sure the start date TfL chose of 1 April (April fools day!!) was the best, given all the diversions / road works last weekend and the upcoming works this weekend. We shall see and let's hope for the best.
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Post by sid on Apr 4, 2017 23:26:20 GMT
I do not know what other people's impressions are, but TT take over of 13 (82) is not going well for me: Yesterday morning 13 was diverting through Belgravia when all other routes were back to normal. Then it stopped at the wrong Dorset Square stop. Just now MV38226 dropped me off because of engine trouble. Central London was a bit chaotic at the weekend but things should be back to normal now.
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Post by abc on Apr 5, 2017 7:17:57 GMT
I do not know what other people's impressions are, but TT take over of 13 (82) is not going well for me: Yesterday morning 13 was diverting through Belgravia when all other routes were back to normal. Then it stopped at the wrong Dorset Square stop. Just now MV38226 dropped me off because of engine trouble. TBF, it's only been a few days in so hardly can make a judgement this soon. You are correct. On the other hand having also taken 19, 113 and 189, there is nothing worth mentioning. Actually on 189 the driver made an announcement at the Selfridges stopped that he is going to Marble Arch and not Oxford Circus.
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Post by redbus on Apr 8, 2017 23:13:25 GMT
A week has elapsed since the Finchley Road changes kicked in, so here's my impressions so far:-
No major capacity issues, some tight spots but nothing major. Passenger numbers on this corridor are inconsistent, and with Easter / school holidays loadings are not at their peak. I suspect any capacity issues are still to come.
My non scientific evidence of passenger impressions is one of a disappointment due to the lack of a direct service beyond Oxford Circus and reliability issues. I suppose this shouldn't be a surprise and in today's environment a direct service to where you want to go in the West End will become a luxury of the past.
Both the 13 and 139 have suffered major reliability issues, with lots of buses bunching and extended gaps in service. I have noticed rather too many 20 minutes gaps in service, and in all honesty the service isn't good enough. In recent days without the earlier diversions matters have improved, but the service is nowhere near what it should be on either route. This weekend there are road works which will impact both routes, which will no doubt result in a second poor weekend. Arguably TfL really should have scheduled the changes after these planned road works to give the changes their best chance of working quickly and well. Overall the 139 is better than the 13, but I suspect that comes down to London Sovereign's experience in running the 13 previously. TT have no experience of the route and most of the drivers are new.
I am hoping these will all be teething troubles and as both operators gain experience a good and even service will be provided. I don't know how long such teething problems should take to resolve, but I will watch all the routes involved closely.
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Post by redexpress on Apr 8, 2017 23:56:24 GMT
A week has elapsed since the Finchley Road changes kicked in, so here's my impressions so far:-
No major capacity issues, some tight spots but nothing major. Passenger numbers on this corridor are inconsistent, and with Easter / school holidays loadings are not at their peak. I suspect any capacity issues are still to come.
My non scientific evidence of passenger impressions is one of a disappointment due to the lack of a direct service beyond Oxford Circus and reliability issues. I suppose this shouldn't be a surprise and in today's environment a direct service to where you want to go in the West End will become a luxury of the past.
Both the 13 and 139 have suffered major reliability issues, with lots of buses bunching and extended gaps in service. I have noticed rather too many 20 minutes gaps in service, and in all honesty the service isn't good enough. In recent days without the earlier diversions matters have improved, but the service is nowhere near what it should be on either route. This weekend there are road works which will impact both routes, which will no doubt result in a second poor weekend. Arguably TfL really should have scheduled the changes after these planned road works to give the changes their best chance of working quickly and well. Overall the 139 is better than the 13, but I suspect that comes down to London Sovereign's experience in running the 13 previously. TT have no experience of the route and most of the drivers are new.
I am hoping these will all be teething troubles and as both operators gain experience a good and even service will be provided. I don't know how long such teething problems should take to resolve, but I will watch all the routes involved closely.
One particular pinch point could be the late evening service from the West End. I've always thought that the 13/139 overlap between Baker Street and Aldwych was overbussed, with the exception that both routes used to pick up very healthy loads in the late evenings northbound, especially around Piccadilly Circus. Earlier tonight I saw a couple of very heavily loaded 139s on Regent Street - two buses full and standing, both markedly busier than any other bus on Regent Street. It's disappointing that the N113 has not gained an earlier start. The first bus from Trafalgar Square is still at 0129 (0133 weekends)! On weeknights this leaves a pretty big gap between the last Jubilee service and the first night bus. And if the loadings that I saw tonight are anywhere near the norm, we could well do with an N113 from 9pm onwards - although I realise I might as well be asking for the moon on a stick.
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Post by redbus on Apr 9, 2017 20:59:23 GMT
I was about to give up on roadside publicity for the Finchley Road changes, but then just before the changes kicked in publicity was finally placed at most if not all stops. Below are two photos, the first from a Finchley Road stop, the other from a Abbey Road stop.
Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
I am not sure what happened here, I find it difficult to believe insufficient posters were produced on the right kind of paper in yellow with logos, but the Finchley Road (left hand) poster in white, just looks cheap and really poor. The best thing I can say is that it is much better than no poster!
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