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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 27, 2015 19:00:48 GMT
Hi all,
I'm writing a research piece on the reliability of night bus services in London. Part of this involves looking at factors which hinder the progress of journeys. As such, I'm trying to compile a list of night buses and the night element of 24 hour routes which have live changeovers and where they take place, as not all of them are shown in the schedules. I have the following, any help would be much appreciated.
N15 - Barking, Fair Cross
N35 - Camberwell Green
N47 - Catford Garage
N68 - Camberwell Green
N136 - Catford Garage
N171 - New Cross
365 - Romford, North Street
Thanks!
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Post by Mokujin on Apr 27, 2015 19:46:51 GMT
N136 - Catford Garage
N171 - New Cross Garage
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Post by DT 11 on Apr 27, 2015 20:26:21 GMT
N136 - Catford Garage N171 - New Cross Garage Whenever I have used the N136 I've not seen a Live Changeover before, but I have seen them on the N47. It also states here Straight Duties www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/night/n136.html |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 27, 2015 22:49:46 GMT
Hi all, I'm writing a research piece on the reliability of night bus services in London. Part of this involves looking at factors which hinder the progress of journeys. As such, I'm trying to compile a list of night buses and the night element of 24 hour routes which have live changeovers and where they take place, as not all of them are shown in the schedules. I have the following, any help would be much appreciated. N35 - Camberwell Green N47 - Catford Garage N68 - Camberwell Green Thanks! The working timetable graveyard might help you. The schedules are not completely up to date as TfL stopped the release of FOI responses pending them publishing all schedules on the TfL website. Unfortunately that's taken many months longer than expected. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 28, 2015 15:33:12 GMT
Hi all, I'm writing a research piece on the reliability of night bus services in London. Part of this involves looking at factors which hinder the progress of journeys. As such, I'm trying to compile a list of night buses and the night element of 24 hour routes which have live changeovers and where they take place, as not all of them are shown in the schedules. I have the following, any help would be much appreciated. N35 - Camberwell Green N47 - Catford Garage N68 - Camberwell Green Thanks! N15- BW & BK handovers at BK and I think the (N)365 hands over outside NS |
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 28, 2015 15:54:18 GMT
All, thank you very much for your responses, it all helps. Please keep them coming if there are any more  |
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Post by DT 11 on Apr 28, 2015 17:35:19 GMT
Just wondered. Night Services that do not run anywhere near there home garages, how are drivers ferried at Night or are they even ferried or changeover at all.
Example the N3 & N11.
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 28, 2015 18:19:59 GMT
When I drove the N3, I kept the same bus all night. Same with the N35 when it was run from Battersea. Breaks were taken at Bromley North and Clapham Junction respectively. In those days, Abellio didn't ditch the Clapham Common - Clapham Junction section of the N35 as readily as they have since it moved to WL. I look forward to running analysis on these routes, to see if there is a (negative) correlation between reliability and; - Live changeovers
- Breaks taken at one end of the route
- No breaks on the night element
An example of the last one is the 25, which has several day shifts finishing between 1am and 3am and a number of shortish night shifts which have no break. |
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Post by DT 11 on Apr 28, 2015 18:46:06 GMT
When I drove the N3, I kept the same bus all night. Same with the N35 when it was run from Battersea. Breaks were taken at Bromley North and Clapham Junction respectively. In those days, Abellio didn't ditch the Clapham Common - Clapham Junction section of the N35 as readily as they have since it moved to WL. I look forward to running analysis on these routes, to see if there is a (negative) correlation between reliability and; - Live changeovers
- Breaks taken at one end of the route
- No breaks on the night element
An example of the last one is the 25, which has several day shifts finishing between 1am and 3am and a number of shortish night shifts which have no break. As a Passenger a Curtailment on a Night Route must not be a nice experience outside of Central London. I think the worst route to get a turn on is the N47 to Bromley Common, Crown Lane or Petts Wood, imagine waiting for another bus at that time of night in such a dead location. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 28, 2015 19:54:20 GMT
When I drove the N3, I kept the same bus all night. Same with the N35 when it was run from Battersea. Breaks were taken at Bromley North and Clapham Junction respectively. In those days, Abellio didn't ditch the Clapham Common - Clapham Junction section of the N35 as readily as they have since it moved to WL. I look forward to running analysis on these routes, to see if there is a (negative) correlation between reliability and; - Live changeovers
- Breaks taken at one end of the route
- No breaks on the night element
An example of the last one is the 25, which has several day shifts finishing between 1am and 3am and a number of shortish night shifts which have no break. As a Passenger a Curtailment on a Night Route must not be a nice experience outside of Central London. I think the worst route to get a turn on is the N47 to Bromley Common, Crown Lane or Petts Wood, imagine waiting for another bus at that time of night in such a dead location. I've seen N2's, 159's (the night element), N109's & N159's curtailed before outside Central London. I was on a 159 at about 1am that was only going between Streatham & Brixton  |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 28, 2015 20:03:14 GMT
When I drove the N3, I kept the same bus all night. Same with the N35 when it was run from Battersea. Breaks were taken at Bromley North and Clapham Junction respectively. In those days, Abellio didn't ditch the Clapham Common - Clapham Junction section of the N35 as readily as they have since it moved to WL. I look forward to running analysis on these routes, to see if there is a (negative) correlation between reliability and; - Live changeovers
- Breaks taken at one end of the route
- No breaks on the night element
An example of the last one is the 25, which has several day shifts finishing between 1am and 3am and a number of shortish night shifts which have no break. Out of curiosity how are you going to do such an analysis given there are so many other factors that can affect a route's reliability? Do you have reliable data that allows you to account for vehicle breakdowns, accidents, passenger action, driver absence, traffic congestion etc which can all affect the reliability of bus operation generally as well as at night. I'd argue you have a greater likelihood that passenger action will impact night bus reliability than on day routes simply because a far greater proportion of people are tanked up with alcohol / drugs at night and wishing to travel. It's an interesting exercise you're attempting but the data issues must be substantial unless TfL are sponsoring your course / you or have been very generous in releasing data to you. |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 28, 2015 20:07:16 GMT
As a Passenger a Curtailment on a Night Route must not be a nice experience outside of Central London. I think the worst route to get a turn on is the N47 to Bromley Common, Crown Lane or Petts Wood, imagine waiting for another bus at that time of night in such a dead location. I've seen N2's, 159's (the night element), N109's & N159's curtailed before outside Central London. I was on a 159 at about 1am that was only going between Streatham & Brixton Surely that 159 could still be a much delayed day route working rather than on the "N" contract? If it was 0300 then I'd say it was the N contract but around 0100 you're in the overlap period between day and night contract working even if the driver's schedule covers both (as is probably the case with the 159). On 24 hour routes there is a definitional issue about what's day and what's night. When I'm doing my night bus photo session planning I spend too much time poring over the timetables to try to spot the "night" element of the timetable so I know I'm snapping a night bus not a day bus in the dark IYSWIM. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 20:09:31 GMT
I've seen N2's, 159's (the night element), N109's & N159's curtailed before outside Central London. I was on a 159 at about 1am that was only going between Streatham & Brixton Surely that 159 could still be a much delayed day route working rather than on the "N" contract? If it was 0300 then I'd say it was the N contract but around 0100 you're in the overlap period between day and night contract working even if the driver's schedule covers both (as is probably the case with the 159). On 24 hour routes there is a definitional issue about what's day and what's night. When I'm doing my night bus photo session planning I spend too much time poring over the timetables to try to spot the "night" element of the timetable so I know I'm snapping a night bus not a day bus in the dark IYSWIM. Are you doing the usual trip this year? always like seeing the night bus pictures - a nice break from the usual. |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 28, 2015 21:13:38 GMT
Are you doing the usual trip this year? always like seeing the night bus pictures - a nice break from the usual. I haven't given it a huge amount of thought. I'll need to see what routes have changed / got different vehicles and go on from there. At some point I need to get some more suburban routes so a jaunt to Hammersmith, which is a bit of a night bus hub, is probably needed. I have got a list already done for Hammersmith. The most ridiculous idea is "round London by night bus" which is almost feasible but I have to start on and finish on late / early day workings. I have got schedules to do it both clockwise and anti clockwise.  The main worry with that is tight connections being missed thus meaning 30 minute waits at places like Kingston or Tooting Broadway. Changing buses in Croydon is also not terribly appealing at 0300 either. You just need to meet a gang of boozed up loons and it could go terribly wrong - that's probably why I haven't done it so far. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 28, 2015 21:44:42 GMT
When I drove the N3, I kept the same bus all night. Same with the N35 when it was run from Battersea. Breaks were taken at Bromley North and Clapham Junction respectively. In those days, Abellio didn't ditch the Clapham Common - Clapham Junction section of the N35 as readily as they have since it moved to WL. I look forward to running analysis on these routes, to see if there is a (negative) correlation between reliability and; - Live changeovers
- Breaks taken at one end of the route
- No breaks on the night element
An example of the last one is the 25, which has several day shifts finishing between 1am and 3am and a number of shortish night shifts which have no break. Out of curiosity how are you going to do such an analysis given there are so many other factors that can affect a route's reliability? Do you have reliable data that allows you to account for vehicle breakdowns, accidents, passenger action, driver absence, traffic congestion etc which can all affect the reliability of bus operation generally as well as at night. I'd argue you have a greater likelihood that passenger action will impact night bus reliability than on day routes simply because a far greater proportion of people are tanked up with alcohol / drugs at night and wishing to travel. It's an interesting exercise you're attempting but the data issues must be substantial unless TfL are sponsoring your course / you or have been very generous in releasing data to you. The work I'm doing is only at undergraduate degree level. Perhaps if I was doing a Masters, I'd delve much deeper into it. I have read other works (Bellinger, 2011 and Rao, 2012) which have made use of TfL data. There is a section towards the end of my project that acknowledges limitations and areas for future work. No sponsorship, only being driven by a genuine fascination with the night bus network. |
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The main worry with that is tight connections being missed thus meaning 30 minute waits at places like Kingston or Tooting Broadway. Changing buses in Croydon is also not terribly appealing at 0300 either. You just need to meet a gang of boozed up loons and it could go terribly wrong - that's probably why I haven't done it so far.