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Post by snoggle on Apr 10, 2017 17:29:26 GMT
If that's the case, why bother having drivers - I mean how many buses actually reach their destination everyday safe & well... And more pertinently how many buses ever manage to break a speed limit and when there are accidents how many have excess speed as the sole cause? This is the bit that is never mentioned by safety campaigners. It is just the classic of "oh no, someone died, we don't care what the cause was but we can exert control over buses so let's blame them regardless and spend lots of money for no good reason". I can't bear cr*p logic for things like this.
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Post by jay38a on Apr 10, 2017 18:29:02 GMT
If that's the case, why bother having drivers - I mean how many buses actually reach their destination everyday safe & well... And more pertinently how many buses ever manage to break a speed limit and when there are accidents how many have excess speed as the sole cause? This is the bit that is never mentioned by safety campaigners. It is just the classic of "oh no, someone died, we don't care what the cause was but we can exert control over buses so let's blame them regardless and spend lots of money for no good reason". I can't bear cr*p logic for things like this. There's a few high speed night routes, the R1 expects you to drive like an absolute nutter and your still loose 2 mins going to and from Orp Station if your doing 30!! and I just wouldn't do it. The 336 at MB was another, now Stagecoach though but evening times on both companies were stupid, you cannot do 20 over most of the Catford end of the route if you want to keep to time. 181 at night Lewisham to Grove Park in 32 mins and 284 to Grove Park Cemetery in 29 mins while doing 20mph, no chance with those times. But then yes a lot of accidents do seem to be slow speed, mostly it's mirrors or rear end hits where the driver hasn't checked his tail swing or how close he is to a car.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 10, 2017 18:56:19 GMT
And more pertinently how many buses ever manage to break a speed limit and when there are accidents how many have excess speed as the sole cause? This is the bit that is never mentioned by safety campaigners. It is just the classic of "oh no, someone died, we don't care what the cause was but we can exert control over buses so let's blame them regardless and spend lots of money for no good reason". I can't bear cr*p logic for things like this. There's a few high speed night routes, the R1 expects you to drive like an absolute nutter and your still loose 2 mins going to and from Orp Station if your doing 30!! and I just wouldn't do it. The 336 at MB was another, now Stagecoach though but evening times on both companies were stupid, you cannot do 20 over most of the Catford end of the route if you want to keep to time. 181 at night Lewisham to Grove Park in 32 mins and 284 to Grove Park Cemetery in 29 mins while doing 20mph, no chance with those times. But then yes a lot of accidents do seem to be slow speed, mostly it's mirrors or rear end hits where the driver hasn't checked his tail swing or how close he is to a car. You can predict what I am going to say. TfL approve the bids, the PVRs and the schedules. TfL have it within their power to fund a slacker, but safer, schedule. If they do not have processes to deal with these potential "money vs safety" conflicts then TfL need to address any process gaps. I don't have any criticism of drivers here because they are simply trying to balance the demands of their employers, its controllers and their own personal responsibility to drive safely as they were taught. It isn't their fault if the job they're tasked with is "impossible".
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Post by Volvo on Apr 10, 2017 21:22:24 GMT
IIRC most journeys on the N253 gives you 57 mins iirc to go from Aldgate to TCR and vice versa yet between Whitechapel & Hackney Baths which is all 20!! the between Stamford Hill & Seven Sisters Road 20! between Camden Town & Euston bus Station 20, the whole of Gower Street & Tottenham Court Road 20!!
There are also some really earlies and lates on the 253 that gives you 37-44 minutes from Hackney to Euston.
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Post by joefrombow on Apr 11, 2017 0:43:49 GMT
At the end of the day a bit of common sense comes to most who drive and driving at a suitable speed for the road conditions driving at 20 mph on a main road at 15:00 is completely different from driving on the same road at 03:00 in the Morning yes there are unfortunately accidents but this adaptive restricting or whatever they call it is ridiculous , Not a good way in my opinion to get ridership back up and more to the point basically telling the Drivers you can't be trusted where will it end ? I know a few operators a few years back had buses speed restricted to in my opinion stupid speed limits i think First group was 35mph on some of the outer suburban routes where there are considerable 40mph sections and Abellio as I recall 30mph , a pain in the arris when on a Greater Anglia rail replacement from Shenfield bombing down the A12 doing 30mph , Did any of these routes have to have additional buses put in to make time up or were there fewer accidents on these routes would be good to find out bit doubt there would be any info about it anyone know why they reverted back ?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 12, 2017 10:32:50 GMT
More on "bus safety" initiatives. Note the involvement of ADL and Wrightbus in development of a new technical standard for bus safety. That sends an interesting message as to who will be supplying London's buses in the future. Note also the new "railway style" assurance provisions on bus company safety standards / processes / maturity. That is quite a change from the relatively "hands off" approach taken for many years.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 12, 2017 11:32:04 GMT
More on "bus safety" initiatives. Note the involvement of ADL and Wrightbus in development of a new technical standard for bus safety. That sends an interesting message as to who will be supplying London's buses in the future. Note also the new "railway style" assurance provisions on bus company safety standards / processes / maturity. That is quite a change from the relatively "hands off" approach taken for many years. I would never understand some of the numpties at TfL. They would never have money for things like countdown displays, wifi, extra buses etc. but then they would waste money on stupid things like this Ignorant Speed Arseistance. Then they wonder why people are deserting buses in droves.
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Post by londonbusboy on Sept 12, 2017 12:45:58 GMT
Great another training course to go on. Change the hours and everything else before putting us on these stupid courses!
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Post by M1104 on Dec 30, 2017 22:50:24 GMT
It's been reported that the trials have started on the 222
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Post by snowman on Sept 26, 2018 13:22:20 GMT
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Post by snowman on Oct 16, 2018 14:01:08 GMT
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Post by ServerKing on Oct 16, 2018 15:35:06 GMT
More on "bus safety" initiatives. Note the involvement of ADL and Wrightbus in development of a new technical standard for bus safety. That sends an interesting message as to who will be supplying London's buses in the future. Note also the new "railway style" assurance provisions on bus company safety standards / processes / maturity. That is quite a change from the relatively "hands off" approach taken for many years. I would never understand some of the numpties at TfL. They would never have money for things like countdown displays, wifi, extra buses etc. but then they would waste money on stupid things like this Ignorant Speed Arseistance. Then they wonder why people are deserting buses in droves.
What happens if the system goes bananas and is over sensitive, i.e not letting a bus pull out into traffic in case sensors prevent it due to too many cars in traffic flow? Or a quick getaway on large roundabouts (A5 / A406 one near Crickelwood is quite dicey, along with the likes of Old Street / Elephant / Tottenham Hale / Gants Hill) These "railway style" assurances may bring with it "railway style" industrial action as drivers get fed up of another set of rules, and another sluggish bus... Treating drivers like fast food employees with 'fool proof' systems is insulting... I just wonder where the money's coming from for this latest harebrained scheme More people will just use their cars now, and buses will be literally 'better than walking' rather than a serious option
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 16, 2018 16:11:26 GMT
I would never understand some of the numpties at TfL. They would never have money for things like countdown displays, wifi, extra buses etc. but then they would waste money on stupid things like this Ignorant Speed Arseistance. Then they wonder why people are deserting buses in droves.
What happens if the system goes bananas and is over sensitive, i.e not letting a bus pull out into traffic in case sensors prevent it due to too many cars in traffic flow? Or a quick getaway on large roundabouts (A5 / A406 one near Crickelwood is quite dicey, along with the likes of Old Street / Elephant / Tottenham Hale / Gants Hill) These "railway style" assurances may bring with it "railway style" industrial action as drivers get fed up of another set of rules, and another sluggish bus... Treating drivers like fast food employees with 'fool proof' systems is insulting... I just wonder where the money's coming from for this latest harebrained scheme More people will just use their cars now, and buses will be literally 'better than walking' rather than a serious option I fully agree, I used to love using the bus, I hardly use it now sadly. I remember people used to ask me why would I still use the bus if I had a car, but sometimes over certain sections the bus was quick and not time consuming.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 16, 2018 22:14:58 GMT
What happens if the system goes bananas and is over sensitive, i.e not letting a bus pull out into traffic in case sensors prevent it due to too many cars in traffic flow? Or a quick getaway on large roundabouts (A5 / A406 one near Crickelwood is quite dicey, along with the likes of Old Street / Elephant / Tottenham Hale / Gants Hill) These "railway style" assurances may bring with it "railway style" industrial action as drivers get fed up of another set of rules, and another sluggish bus... Treating drivers like fast food employees with 'fool proof' systems is insulting... I just wonder where the money's coming from for this latest harebrained scheme More people will just use their cars now, and buses will be literally 'better than walking' rather than a serious option I fully agree, I used to love using the bus, I hardly use it now sadly. I remember people used to ask me why would I still use the bus if I had a car, but sometimes over certain sections the bus was quick and not time consuming. Sadly, I have no choice and have to rely on the bus unless I'm heading towards Central London.
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Post by joefrombow on Oct 16, 2018 23:04:48 GMT
I would never understand some of the numpties at TfL. They would never have money for things like countdown displays, wifi, extra buses etc. but then they would waste money on stupid things like this Ignorant Speed Arseistance. Then they wonder why people are deserting buses in droves.
What happens if the system goes bananas and is over sensitive, i.e not letting a bus pull out into traffic in case sensors prevent it due to too many cars in traffic flow? Or a quick getaway on large roundabouts (A5 / A406 one near Crickelwood is quite dicey, along with the likes of Old Street / Elephant / Tottenham Hale / Gants Hill) These "railway style" assurances may bring with it "railway style" industrial action as drivers get fed up of another set of rules, and another sluggish bus... Treating drivers like fast food employees with 'fool proof' systems is insulting... I just wonder where the money's coming from for this latest harebrained scheme More people will just use their cars now, and buses will be literally 'better than walking' rather than a serious option Here's how MAN's Emergency Brake Assist application works youtu.be/JPIg42pQ1f0how a similar system will work in a busy City environment I don't know as for the adaptive speed , going on a Night Bus at 03:00 on a Tuesday Morning is going to be loads of fun or any route that runs on 20 mph roads after 22:00 . I'm all for "elf n safety" and improvements but literally boring the driver to sleep dawdling along creating Traffic , I don't see how this will help to be honest and more to the point where is the Money for this be coming from or will it just be part of the Spec ? Another reason IMO more operators will give up on London operations and other operators don't bother (yes Ensign I'm talking about you) there is just too much they want from Contracts .
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