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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Sept 30, 2015 19:23:45 GMT
I'm still waiting for someone to inform me of this vehicles purpose! To give more of a choice. Obviously ADL would have done research to see if it was a sensible decision to develop another standard double decker.
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Post by DT 11 on Sept 30, 2015 19:26:44 GMT
I see your points but could the same not be said about most buses? The ALX400 was perfectly OK, so does that mean the Enviro400 was pointless? The ALX 400 I think was a brilliant bus and will be missed when all gone, as well as ALX 200s. Enviro 400 was not pointless at all, I think more ALX 400s could have been produced for a few years longer, before Introducing Enviro 200s & 400s. The Orignal MMC looks better than the Citybus from my point of view, plus the interior is horrid.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 19:49:32 GMT
Looking at the pictures of launch I must say this looks much less claustrophobic (Especially upstairs rear) compared to the LT. Sticking my neck out and saying this looks much more modern than the LT!
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Post by Green Kitten on Sept 30, 2015 20:10:02 GMT
I see your points but could the same not be said about most buses? The ALX400 was perfectly OK, so does that mean the Enviro400 was pointless? Let's face it - by 2006 it was a dated design. I actually do like the bus itself, even though I think the original MMC looks a better. The roundels on the moquette are quite cute, makes it look nicer than the one on the New Routemasters. (Though maroon and grey is so 1990s.) Can't beat blue Arriva squares and white poles, though. What I dislike the most what the signs this bus brings towards a more boring bus network in London.
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Post by RT3062 on Sept 30, 2015 20:16:13 GMT
The interior looks good to me, the gold poles and the panels look ace on a Enviro 400. I think this may have been a collaboration between Arriva and TfL to share the cost of the buses as I am presuming these will be Arriva owned buses but in a TfL interior. Unless this is a look to the future that all London buses will have a uniformed Tfl interior. i like those seats. it seems a bit less gloomy upstairs than the LTs . im interested to see the 2 door model of the to compare the two.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 1, 2015 0:28:08 GMT
I see your points but could the same not be said about most buses? The ALX400 was perfectly OK, so does that mean the Enviro400 was pointless? The ALX 400 I think was a brilliant bus and will be missed when all gone, as well as ALX 200s. Enviro 400 was not pointless at all, I think more ALX 400s could have been produced for a few years longer, before Introducing Enviro 200s & 400s. The Orignal MMC looks better than the Citybus from my point of view, plus the interior is horrid. Technically, more ALX400's were in production at the same time as the Enviro 400 - Dublin Bus have the last built ALX400's which were built in 2007.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 1, 2015 0:30:58 GMT
I'm still waiting for someone to inform me of this vehicles purpose! To give more of a choice. Obviously ADL would have done research to see if it was a sensible decision to develop another standard double decker. What choice does it give? It does the exact same things as the MMC does, it gives out the same emissions, it seats the same and most likely hardly any difference in weight. It's certainly far better than a LT but it's still not got a proper purpose just like the 'angry face' Gemini3 has no purpose either.
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Post by rmz19 on Oct 1, 2015 1:00:09 GMT
I see your points but could the same not be said about most buses? The ALX400 was perfectly OK, so does that mean the Enviro400 was pointless? But there is a massive difference, the ALX400 and Enviro400 have completely different designs and the ALX400 was produced well before. The E400H City is being produced shortly after the MMC and NB4L and they all share similar design elements.
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Post by astock5000 on Oct 1, 2015 1:49:15 GMT
What choice does it give? It does the exact same things as the MMC does, it gives out the same emissions, it seats the same and most likely hardly any difference in weight. It's certainly far better than a LT but it's still not got a proper purpose just like the 'angry face' Gemini3 has no purpose either. The purpose appears to be that it allows a bus with New Routemaster styling to be operated on routes which don't require an extra door and staircase. Of course that could be considered pointless but in my opinion it's a good idea and the City is an improvement over the standard MMC. The upper deck interior of the City does seem to be brighter than on LTs due to the larger windows, but the height of the windows (which is the same as on the MMC and presumably couldn't be altered for this design) does result in the front corners looking slightly odd on the outside, which is partly why I still prefer the design of the LT.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 1, 2015 2:08:11 GMT
What choice does it give? It does the exact same things as the MMC does, it gives out the same emissions, it seats the same and most likely hardly any difference in weight. It's certainly far better than a LT but it's still not got a proper purpose just like the 'angry face' Gemini3 has no purpose either. The purpose appears to be that it allows a bus with New Routemaster styling to be operated on routes which don't require an extra door and staircase. Of course that could be considered pointless but in my opinion it's a good idea and the City is an improvement over the standard MMC. The upper deck interior of the City does seem to be brighter than on LTs due to the larger windows, but the height of the windows (which is the same as on the MMC and presumably couldn't be altered for this design) does result in the front corners looking slightly odd on the outside, which is partly why I still prefer the design of the LT. I'm afraid I would consider that a pointless purpose TBH as why would you need a bus to look like another bus.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 10:54:46 GMT
I see your points but could the same not be said about most buses? The ALX400 was perfectly OK, so does that mean the Enviro400 was pointless? The difference being the Enviro400 was an update to a long-standing design. This comes less than a year after they already released a new design.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 1, 2015 12:06:25 GMT
The E400 was a big improvement interior and stylewise over the ALX400. The ALX200/400 at the front had the retro styling at the front when it came out giving circular headlamps. ADL (mayflower then) also shot themselves in the foot I believe discontinuing the ALX200 early in favour of the Plaxton Pointer and also discontinuing the Plaxton President in favour of the ALX400. They decreased choice and then also lost out on orders. They believed that operators who even took at times both bodywork i.e President and ALX400 would just stay loyal to ALX400 but this then say many took ALX400 and also Wright Gemini or ELC bodywork. I think it is good there is this MMC cuty and the standard MMC and gives more choice. I realy hope they have sorted out many rattles around the cab, the best bus so far is the Gemini 2, virtually rattle free.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 1, 2015 12:23:04 GMT
The E400 was a big improvement interior and stylewise over the ALX400. The ALX200/400 at the front had the retro styling at the front when it came out giving circular headlamps. ADL (mayflower then) also shot themselves in the foot I believe discontinuing the ALX200 early in favour of the Plaxton Pointer and also discontinuing the Plaxton President in favour of the ALX400. They decreased choice and then also lost out on orders. They believed that operators who even took at times both bodywork i.e President and ALX400 would just stay loyal to ALX400 but this then say many took ALX400 and also Wright Gemini or ELC bodywork. I think it is good there is this MMC cuty and the standard MMC and gives more choice. I realy hope they have sorted out many rattles around the cab, the best bus so far is the Gemini 2, virtually rattle free. The normal MMC is rattle free as I've rode many examples on the 109 & 415 and they don't rattle regardless of whether it's the cab or not. The Gemini2 however isn't rattle free but it's one of the better buses when it comes to how bad they rattle.
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Post by M1104 on Oct 1, 2015 12:33:08 GMT
ADL (mayflower then) also shot themselves in the foot I believe discontinuing the ALX200 early in favour of the Plaxton Pointer and also discontinuing the Plaxton President in favour of the ALX400. I thought the Plaxton President and the ALX400 ceased production around the same time.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 1, 2015 12:38:56 GMT
ADL (mayflower then) also shot themselves in the foot I believe discontinuing the ALX200 early in favour of the Plaxton Pointer and also discontinuing the Plaxton President in favour of the ALX400. I thought the Plaxton President and the ALX400 ceased production around the same time. Last Presidents delivered was in very early 2005 but the ALX400 continued for a couple more years.
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