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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 30, 2024 9:42:18 GMT
I think it's a shame it's not a half hourly service although operationally it probably is a bit of a pain. This is a really useful service, though as you say would be a lot more useful if it was more frequent. I wonder if there would be any operational advantage if it was run by London Northwestern instead of Southern? It's main purpose is linking Watford/Harrow to places like Shepherds Bush (for Westfield) and Clapham Junction (for further interchange). It can get very busy on the unique section (particularly since being reduced from 8 to 5-car trains), but isn't that well used between Croydon and Clapham. So could reduce it to just Watford-Clapham (but increased to 2tph) - and if a LNR service could also interwork at Watford with some of the Abbey Line shuttles? If you got rid of this service, the alternative would be a lot slower - if you had to instead change at Willesden Junction, and wait for the Overground going through all the DC line stops up to Watford Junction. Though with all the redevelopment work around Old Oak Common, really it would make sense to just build some platforms on the semi-fast lines, allowing 2-4tph LNR to stop there, then make the Willesden-Clapham Overground slightly more frequent. This would also offer better interchange from the WCML to stations towards Richmond or Stratford, plus a short connection to Old Oak Common for the Elizabeth Line and GWR. But as long as Willesden Junction doesn't have fast trains stopping, I think this Southern service is needed.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 30, 2024 10:52:49 GMT
A service originally started by Connex as Rugby-Brighton
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Post by rif153 on Apr 30, 2024 11:36:20 GMT
The token Hemel extension always seemed a bit bizzare and unlikely to last but I agree its sad watching this service continue to be pruned back. It provides such useful links but now feels like squandered potential at the northern end since it has been truncated to Watford Junction. Hard to imagine the West London Line was once used for much longer distance services, including Cross Country services from Brighton to Manchester at one point. I've always been sceptical of transferring it to London Overground just because I think a semi-fast service on the WCML would cause some confusion when all Overground services along there use the DC lines. I do think its ridiculous that this is currently the only stopping service between Clapham Junction and East Croydon. Reallly you need some all stations Victoria to East Croydon services that perhaps carry on to Caterham or somewhere like that - having to usually do two changes for a journey like Balham to Purley seems completely crazy when so many main line services pass through both on their journeys between Victoria and the South Coast. Completely agree with @adh45258 on the lack of platforms for this service at Old Oak Common, it feels like this service is treated like an afterthought whilst London Overground is seen as the gospel of all rail services on the West London line. I can imagine many WLL users from Clapham Junction who could take either service wouldn't even think to check the departure board to see if a Southern service is coming first given there's only one an hour and its on the opposite side of the station to the Overground.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 30, 2024 11:46:56 GMT
The token Hemel extension always seemed a bit bizzare and unlikely to last but I agree its sad watching this service continue to be pruned back. It provides such useful links but now feels like squandered potential at the northern end since it has been truncated to Watford Junction. Hard to imagine the West London Line was once used for much longer distance services, including Cross Country services from Brighton to Manchester at one point. I've always been sceptical of transferring it to London Overground just because I think a semi-fast service on the WCML would cause some confusion when all Overground services along there use the DC lines. I do think its ridiculous that this is currently the only stopping service between Clapham Junction and East Croydon. Reallly you need some all stations Victoria to East Croydon services that perhaps carry on to Caterham or somewhere like that - having to usually do two changes for a journey like Balham to Purley seems completely crazy when so many main line services pass through both on their journeys between Victoria and the South Coast. Completely agree with @adh45258 on the lack of platforms for this service at Old Oak Common, it feels like this service is treated like an afterthought whilst London Overground is seen as the gospel of all rail services on the West London line. I can imagine many WLL users from Clapham Junction who could take either service wouldn't even think to check the departure board to see if a Southern service is coming first given there's only one an hour and its on the opposite side of the station to the Overground. Southern to MKC was going to disappear inevitably, I believe the terminating platforms once used by the West London Line Southern services are earmarked for EWR when that starts
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Post by kmkcheng on Apr 30, 2024 15:59:59 GMT
The token Hemel extension always seemed a bit bizzare and unlikely to last but I agree its sad watching this service continue to be pruned back. It provides such useful links but now feels like squandered potential at the northern end since it has been truncated to Watford Junction. Hard to imagine the West London Line was once used for much longer distance services, including Cross Country services from Brighton to Manchester at one point. I've always been sceptical of transferring it to London Overground just because I think a semi-fast service on the WCML would cause some confusion when all Overground services along there use the DC lines. I do think its ridiculous that this is currently the only stopping service between Clapham Junction and East Croydon. Reallly you need some all stations Victoria to East Croydon services that perhaps carry on to Caterham or somewhere like that - having to usually do two changes for a journey like Balham to Purley seems completely crazy when so many main line services pass through both on their journeys between Victoria and the South Coast. Completely agree with @adh45258 on the lack of platforms for this service at Old Oak Common, it feels like this service is treated like an afterthought whilst London Overground is seen as the gospel of all rail services on the West London line. I can imagine many WLL users from Clapham Junction who could take either service wouldn't even think to check the departure board to see if a Southern service is coming first given there's only one an hour and its on the opposite side of the station to the Overground. Southern to MKC was going to disappear inevitably, I believe the terminating platforms once used by the West London Line Southern services are earmarked for EWR when that starts The platform at MK for the EWR I believe is platform 2a which can only fit a 2 (maybe 3) car train. Southern used platform 2 which is now used by an extra London Midland service terminating there now. Shame it’s been reduced to a Watford to East Croydon service but the problem has been the conflicting movements at both sides. Maybe once HS2 is running, there may be a path available for it to run north again beyond Watford.
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Post by gwiwer on Apr 30, 2024 17:03:24 GMT
The Southern service between East Croydon and Watford Junction is very well used. To remove it would result in even more pressure on the already overloaded Overground service to Willesden Junction (which cannot be increased as the high-level lines are already at full capacity) and force a change for those travelling north. It is a popular option for those travelling between Gatwick and WCML destinations who can obtain a cheaper fare "not via London Terminals" in many cases though they may require an extra change of trains. Southern staff Wembley Central's semi-fast platforms for their services which may be a cost they would wish to avoid but those calls are themselves popular.
The one-time Brighton - Rugby service was a water-testing exercise as much as anything. Thameslink had a dream to go from "everywhere to anywhere" but the planned Channel-ports to north-of-London services never started. Rolling stock was better employed elsewhere on busier services. I used the Southern service numerous times from different points north of Watford and found it largely empty until (or north of) Watford Junction but busy thereafter through the core. The conductor was very surprised when I boarded at Berkhamsted on one occasion and offered a ticket to Selhurst!
It serves a useful purpose, only now requires three units and a handful of crews and maintains useful traction knowledge for AC operation. It should be kept.
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