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Post by routew15 on Nov 11, 2015 14:35:58 GMT
TfL has launched a consultation today on the changes to bus routes 436 and 452 436 & 452 consultation pageThe 436 is going to be changed dramatically, not sure is I agree with these changes personally. ( Also what will happen to the X436 for Carnival ) Consultation closes Sunday 10 January 2016
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 14:56:32 GMT
TfL has launched a consultation today on the changes to bus routes 436 and 452 436 & 452 consultation pageThe 436 is going to be changed dramatically, not sure is I agree with these changes personally. ( Also what will happen to the X436 for Carnival ) Consultation closes Sunday 10 January 2016 I personally am against the proposal for the 436. It puts unnecessary pressure on the 36, even with a frequency increase, plus the direct links to Vauxhall from Paddington doesn't exist without changing somewhere. Just an excuse to remove buses from the Paddington area really
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 11, 2015 14:56:55 GMT
Those are really ambitious. I always did think the 156 could do with another route down to Battersea Park but not the 436!! I think this is just a cost saving measure as it will withdraw buses from Central London and will force a lot of 436 users onto the 36.
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Post by Nathan on Nov 11, 2015 15:02:49 GMT
"Consultation Unavailable This consultation is currently unavailable."
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Post by vjaska on Nov 11, 2015 15:14:00 GMT
"Consultation Unavailable This consultation is currently unavailable." It's working again. I don't agree with either proposal. The whole point of the 436 is to help out the 36 between Paddington & New Cross where most of the demand is. TfL need to wake up and realise no matter what improvement you make to the Underground, that should not be to the detriment of bus services. Even on a Saturday morning, the 36 is very busy as is the 436. As for the 452, they are missing a massive trick here. Rather than trying to find a problem along Wandsworth Road (the 77 & 87 aren't overcrowded like other routes are in Lambeth), they could send the route through Union Road to Stockwell or to Clapham Common creating new links - Wandsworth Road Station and the housing area west of it has no link to Stockwell or Clapham Common where the nearest shopping area lies unless they walk to Lavender Hill.
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 11, 2015 15:51:39 GMT
I agree/disagree with this proposal.
452 extended to Vauxhall is a good idea.
Battersea Park Station I do not agree with this, if they are going to divert the 436 fully just extend it to Clapham Junction via the 156.
The 36 is going to be fun.
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Post by Nathan on Nov 11, 2015 15:54:21 GMT
I actually quite like this idea. I like the idea of a more direct link from Lewisham/Peckham to Battersea. Whether there will be an actual demand for this link is another story though. I feel that a link from Paddington/West End to Battersea via Vauxhall may be more useful, but you can't exactly re-route the 436 away from Camberwell, Peckham, and Lewisham can you? The major thing I'm worried about is the 36 during the peak...I'm glad I never have to use that bus...
I don't agree with either proposal. The whole point of the 436 is to help out the 36 between Paddington & New Cross where most of the demand is. TfL need to wake up and realise no matter what improvement you make to the Underground, that should not be to the detriment of bus services. Even on a Saturday morning, the 36 is very busy as is the 436.As for the 452, they are missing a massive trick here. Rather than trying to find a problem along Wandsworth Road (the 77 & 87 aren't overcrowded like other routes are in Lambeth), they could send the route through Union Road to Stockwell or to Clapham Common creating new links - Wandsworth Road Station and the housing area west of it has no link to Stockwell or Clapham Common where the nearest shopping area lies unless they walk to Lavender Hill. I agree with your point on the 436 helping the 36. As I live in Brockley/New Cross, it'll be slightly annoying losing that direct link to Victoria as I'll have to get a bus to New Cross Bus Garage, then catch a 36. But if I'm honest, if I had to make my way to Victoria from home, I would not choose the 36/436 given the amount of traffic there usually is along the routes. And the fact that the routes are always busy like you mentioned, defers me even further to take that route. I like the Clapham Common idea. I can see many people using that link, as I've noticed quite a number of people board the 137 from here towards Marble Arch. I kind of see no point of the 452 being extended to Vauxhall. From what I've see, the 77/87 cope just about fine. Perhaps the 87 could get a little frequency increase during the peak, but that's all it really needs tbh.
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Post by Unorm on Nov 11, 2015 15:57:52 GMT
I'm totally against this really, removing a well-purpose route providing extra capacity to the 36 will really flood the whole passenger patterns. Don't see much people needing to get to Battersea Park on a 436 if it does happen and neither would the frequency increase on 36 do much but to decrease lots of users on 436 to be strayed on 36. I've no problems with the 452 proposal as it's handy for a North West to almost South East and a little help on the 77/87. Might the 436 one go-ahead, 36 will surely rank suspiciously high, I'd say between second and fifth places.
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Post by sid on Nov 11, 2015 16:23:56 GMT
Sounds like a crazy idea to me, from what I've seen the 36 and 436 are both very busy between Vauxhall and Paddington and increasing the 36 will put more buses on the much quieter Queens Park section where they aren't needed.
The 452 is a modest improvement but for me it should be rerouted at Sloane Square to Victoria as an alternative to the 52 which is often rammed.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 11, 2015 16:53:38 GMT
Well bag of a cigarette packet calculations would give a 10 bus reduction, on current frequencies, between Vauxhall and Paddington. The 436's current PVR is 33 and I reckon a x7.5 service between Vauxhall and Lewisham would need about 18 buses. Adding the bit to Battersea would require about 3 buses at peak times. Therefore the 436 element of the scheme sees a net reduction of about 10-12 buses (rough and ready estimate - no need to do a critique!). Boosting the 36 seems to need about 10 or 11 buses.
The 452 element would probably need about 2, maybe 3, buses for the extension and assuming no roadworks on Wandsworth Road. Therefore the total scheme sees a net increase of 2-3 buses overall. Seems a lot of effort to achieve not very much when you could undoubtedly deal with the alleged capacity issues in Nine Elms and Battersea through more modest enhancements on existing routes.
I really don't see the point of the 436 change at all. Perhaps I live in another universe to TfL's but the 36 and 436 are always busy and I don't see the point in breaking the fastest bus link from Lewisham to Central London? I've no issue with the 452's extension. I'm sceptical as to whether demand is really so high that people in developments that are within walking distance of Vauxhall station need another 15 buses per hour over two corridors to cope.
I would have thought that we are a couple of years away, given construction progress, before something really needs to be done about more comprehensive bus service coverage in Battersea Nine Elms.
I wish TfL would release their "workings" for schemes like this. They did this for New Addington but have singularly failed to do so in any subsequent bus route consultation.
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Post by thewintersoldier on Nov 11, 2015 17:41:44 GMT
The Victoria to Edgware Road section already received a decrease in buses with route 16 converting to NBFL? I can't quite recall. Now they are considering removing the 436? I have one word for this.
'Headsgone'
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Nov 11, 2015 18:55:39 GMT
The 436 proposal sounds ridiculous. Defeating the whole purpose of route 436 which is to support the 36 and also give the South East of London a direct link to Central London (Victoria, Marble Arch, Edgware Road). Both routes are rammed most of the time from end to end. Since when did Battersea Park become a place of interest?
I like the route 452 proposal though.
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Post by danorak on Nov 11, 2015 19:13:18 GMT
Wandsworth Road was never a very sensible place to terminate the 452 so I suppose I welcome the extension, although it seems a bit like overkill.
Diverting the 436 to Battersea Park seems bizarre. It's interesting to see some of the round the corner links that were missing (like that proposed on the E8) being addressed. But there must be a better way of achieving this one. Battersea Park is another nothing terminus (I guess it will run to the Power Station itself when redevelopment is complete).
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Post by routew15 on Nov 11, 2015 19:19:07 GMT
Well at least we know why it was " ok" for the 156 to be rerouted in Battersea Park. The 452 idea seems a bit over the top in my opinion. Plus if Vauxhall Bus Station is still to be dismantled, where shall the route stand? I dont one think increasing the frequency of existing bus routes (in there current formation) will be as beneficial in the long term, compared to the benefits that could be reaped for passengers by having a brand new bus route. I still stand by my 456 idea.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 11, 2015 19:35:45 GMT
If another link to Battersea Park was needed from Vauxhall, surely it would make more sense to divert the 185 there.
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