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Post by sid on Jan 4, 2016 18:27:55 GMT
I'd forgotten about this proposal. I can see this one going ahead as unlike the 13 which everybody threw their weight behind so not to loose a classic route number that's historically served the area, the 436 is a more recent route that most probably still think is the 36 anyway. I think it's only enthusiasts that worry about route numbers. If the 15 was extended to Golders Green in place of the 13 I don't suppose most people would bat an eyelid, in fact many would probably approve of axing the 'unlucky' 13 lol. I think the 436 proposal is even more ridiculous!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 22:59:14 GMT
I'd forgotten about this proposal. I can see this one going ahead as unlike the 13 which everybody threw their weight behind so not to loose a classic route number that's historically served the area, the 436 is a more recent route that most probably still think is the 36 anyway. I think it's only enthusiasts that worry about route numbers. If the 15 was extended to Golders Green in place of the 13 I don't suppose most people would bat an eyelid, in fact many would probably approve of axing the 'unlucky' 13 lol. I think the 436 proposal is even more ridiculous! I don't even think just the enthusiasts but the elderly as well due to a nostalgic factor most likely however most people (middle age/youth) wouldn't really care less as to them they wouldn't know or care where the number comes from but they were definitely upset of having a reduced link to Central London which will definitely happen, with this consultation I think it'll be best if the 185 is diverted through Battersea Park but still terminating at Victoria the route will be ridiculous long but will give Battersea Park links to Lewisham, Forest Hill, Dulwich, Camberwell etc. and no broken links except for the short stretch between Victoria and Vauxhall and Pimlico is not a long walk from either places.
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Post by DT 11 on Jan 7, 2016 19:33:50 GMT
I'd forgotten about this proposal. I can see this one going ahead as unlike the 13 which everybody threw their weight behind so not to loose a classic route number that's historically served the area, the 436 is a more recent route that most probably still think is the 36 anyway. I think it's only enthusiasts that worry about route numbers. If the 15 was extended to Golders Green in place of the 13 I don't suppose most people would bat an eyelid, in fact many would probably approve of axing the 'unlucky' 13 lol. I think the 436 proposal is even more ridiculous! I think there is some positives and negatives to the 436 proposal. Quite difficult already to get from Lewisham to South West London. Just about the P4 and that is it. I think an extension to Clapham Junction or even Wandsworth would be quite a good link for the 436, when it goes to Battersea Park the route will be a lot shorter, about 7 miles. The Neagative I would say is the frequency reduction to 7-8 Minutes.
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Post by sw11simon on Jan 7, 2016 19:50:15 GMT
I'm not sure its difficult to get from Lewisham to South West London. It's a change at Vauxhall Bus Station to many frequent routes. How much demand is there? There can't be direct links to all parts of London. I really don't think the 436 proposal is about adding links. It seems to be about adding capacity in Nine Elms Lane. There is nothing in this proposal about all the demand for journeys from Battersea Park to Peckham or Lewisham...
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Post by vjaska on Jan 7, 2016 22:49:26 GMT
I'm not sure its difficult to get from Lewisham to South West London. It's a change at Vauxhall Bus Station to many frequent routes. How much demand is there? There can't be direct links to all parts of London. I really don't think the 436 proposal is about adding links. It seems to be about adding capacity in Nine Elms Lane. There is nothing in this proposal about all the demand for journeys from Battersea Park to Peckham or Lewisham... I think there would be great demand for an easy to west link across South London. There's really only the 37 and it's falls apart regularly because it's pratically the only east to west link. In contrast, North London has a number of east to west links that work very well so I don't see why it would be a bad idea. I'm also a bit lost as to why Nine Elms Lane needs extra capacity - I've always felt capacity along there is more than sufficient.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 7, 2016 22:54:25 GMT
I'd imagine there is a for sight to how busy the area will become once all the nine elms developments start to open as the northern line may not open till atleast 2020.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 7, 2016 23:55:27 GMT
I'm also a bit lost as to why Nine Elms Lane needs extra capacity - I've always felt capacity along there is more than sufficient. That's one of the points I made in my consultation response. I can see a potential need for a link at a future point and the 452 is the ideal vehicle for that when new access roads open in the Nine Elms area. There's no need to send the 436 to Battersea Park now.
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Post by sw11simon on Jan 8, 2016 16:36:06 GMT
I'm not sure its difficult to get from Lewisham to South West London. It's a change at Vauxhall Bus Station to many frequent routes. How much demand is there? There can't be direct links to all parts of London. I really don't think the 436 proposal is about adding links. It seems to be about adding capacity in Nine Elms Lane. There is nothing in this proposal about all the demand for journeys from Battersea Park to Peckham or Lewisham... I think there would be great demand for an easy to west link across South London. There's really only the 37 and it's falls apart regularly because it's pratically the only east to west link. In contrast, North London has a number of east to west links that work very well so I don't see why it would be a bad idea. I'm also a bit lost as to why Nine Elms Lane needs extra capacity - I've always felt capacity along there is more than sufficient. I would imagine that funds to improve bus service was provided by the developers as a condition of the planning permission for all the new builds going on along there... along with funding for the Northern Line extension. I don't think the 37 falls apart "because it is the only east to west link." I think that is unpredictable traffic on the route and the fact it is operated from one end. I would suggest that the 35 and 345 also provide south east to south west links. I bet a very small proportion of people travel end to end on any of those routes. I stand by my original statement. If people need to travel from south east to south west they can easily change at Vauxhall (or Elephant to a smaller extent and other points) to a choice of high frequency services. Every destination cannot serve every destination.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 8, 2016 16:54:55 GMT
I think there would be great demand for an easy to west link across South London. There's really only the 37 and it's falls apart regularly because it's pratically the only east to west link. In contrast, North London has a number of east to west links that work very well so I don't see why it would be a bad idea. I'm also a bit lost as to why Nine Elms Lane needs extra capacity - I've always felt capacity along there is more than sufficient. I would imagine that funds to improve bus service was provided by the developers as a condition of the planning permission for all the new builds going on along there... along with funding for the Northern Line extension. I don't think the 37 falls apart "because it is the only east to west link." I think that is unpredictable traffic on the route and the fact it is operated from one end. I would suggest that the 35 and 345 also provide south east to south west links. I bet a very small proportion of people travel end to end on any of those routes. I stand by my original statement. If people need to travel from south east to south west they can easily change at Vauxhall (or Elephant to a smaller extent and other points) to a choice of high frequency services. Every destination cannot serve every destination. There are other reasons besides unpredictable traffic conditions that the 37 falls apart but one of them is because there are no other ways of reaching South East London in just one bus from the Clapham Junction area. No one is asking for every destination to be served by every destination but there are obvious links like a Lewisham to Clapham Junction that would be well used. The 35 only scratches along the tip of South East London whilst the 345 only goes as far as Peckham which isn't the end of South East London. Lewisham is a major hub with lots of growth potential so I do not understand why it shouldn't be linked into areas like Clapham Junction with its massive train interchange and places like Streatham which is also growing as well.
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Post by sw11simon on Jan 8, 2016 18:21:06 GMT
I would imagine that funds to improve bus service was provided by the developers as a condition of the planning permission for all the new builds going on along there... along with funding for the Northern Line extension. I don't think the 37 falls apart "because it is the only east to west link." I think that is unpredictable traffic on the route and the fact it is operated from one end. I would suggest that the 35 and 345 also provide south east to south west links. I bet a very small proportion of people travel end to end on any of those routes. I stand by my original statement. If people need to travel from south east to south west they can easily change at Vauxhall (or Elephant to a smaller extent and other points) to a choice of high frequency services. Every destination cannot serve every destination. There are other reasons besides unpredictable traffic conditions that the 37 falls apart but one of them is because there are no other ways of reaching South East London in just one bus from the Clapham Junction area. No one is asking for every destination to be served by every destination but there are obvious links like a Lewisham to Clapham Junction that would be well used. The 35 only scratches along the tip of South East London whilst the 345 only goes as far as Peckham which isn't the end of South East London. Lewisham is a major hub with lots of growth potential so I do not understand why it shouldn't be linked into areas like Clapham Junction with its massive train interchange and places like Streatham which is also growing as well. I really don't want to argue, but (having worked in the industry for 16 years in that part of London) I really don't understand how "there no other ways of reaching South East London in just one bus from the Clapham Junction area" is a factor that causes a route to fall apart. A route falling apart is caused by delays followed by the operational constraints of getting the buses back into their time slots. Without delays I believe a double deck bus every 10 minutes matches demand fine on route 37, on which a very small proportion of people are likely to travel from one end to the other (like most routes.) If someone wants to go from Lewisham to Clapham Junction as you state (I'd be quite interested to see some figures of how many people regularly make that journey) they can take a high frequency 436 to Vauxhall and then change to choice of routes 77, 87, 156 or 344. I don't get the issue with that. I personally would benefit from a bus that goes direct from Clapham Junction to Acton/ Ealing... I do not expect it to happen!
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Post by sid on Jan 8, 2016 19:01:00 GMT
There are other reasons besides unpredictable traffic conditions that the 37 falls apart but one of them is because there are no other ways of reaching South East London in just one bus from the Clapham Junction area. No one is asking for every destination to be served by every destination but there are obvious links like a Lewisham to Clapham Junction that would be well used. The 35 only scratches along the tip of South East London whilst the 345 only goes as far as Peckham which isn't the end of South East London. Lewisham is a major hub with lots of growth potential so I do not understand why it shouldn't be linked into areas like Clapham Junction with its massive train interchange and places like Streatham which is also growing as well. I really don't want to argue, but (having worked in the industry for 16 years in that part of London) I really don't understand how "there no other ways of reaching South East London in just one bus from the Clapham Junction area" is a factor that causes a route to fall apart. A route falling apart is caused by delays followed by the operational constraints of getting the buses back into their time slots. Without delays I believe a double deck bus every 10 minutes matches demand fine on route 37, on which a very small proportion of people are likely to travel from one end to the other (like most routes.) If someone wants to go from Lewisham to Clapham Junction as you state (I'd be quite interested to see some figures of how many people regularly make that journey) they can take a high frequency 436 to Vauxhall and then change to choice of routes 77, 87, 156 or 344. I don't get the issue with that. I personally would benefit from a bus that goes direct from Clapham Junction to Acton/ Ealing... I do not expect it to happen! If I were going from Lewisham to Clapham Junction I'd get the train to Denmark Hill and LO but I do think there is some scope for better SE-SW London links such as extending the 156 to Elephant and Castle and Old Kent Road, New Cross would probably be deemed too far. A more radical idea would be to withdraw the Camberwell Green to Clapham Junction section of the 35, maybe reroute it to Crystal Palace via Dulwich Village, and replace it with a new route Clapham Junction to Camberwell Green then via the 436 to Lewisham and then replace the 225 to Hither Green? The 436 could be reduced slightly and the 345 rerouted back to Elephant and Castle?
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Post by John tuthill on Jan 8, 2016 21:18:06 GMT
I'm not sure its difficult to get from Lewisham to South West London. It's a change at Vauxhall Bus Station to many frequent routes. How much demand is there? There can't be direct links to all parts of London. I really don't think the 436 proposal is about adding links. It seems to be about adding capacity in Nine Elms Lane. There is nothing in this proposal about all the demand for journeys from Battersea Park to Peckham or Lewisham... I think there would be great demand for an easy to west link across South London. There's really only the 37 and it's falls apart regularly because it's pratically the only east to west link. In contrast, North London has a number of east to west links that work very well so I don't see why it would be a bad idea. I'm also a bit lost as to why Nine Elms Lane needs extra capacity - I've always felt capacity along there is more than sufficient. I agree, I can't see the occupants of all the 'Lego Towers' being built there queuing for a bus!
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Post by vjaska on Jan 8, 2016 22:03:44 GMT
There are other reasons besides unpredictable traffic conditions that the 37 falls apart but one of them is because there are no other ways of reaching South East London in just one bus from the Clapham Junction area. No one is asking for every destination to be served by every destination but there are obvious links like a Lewisham to Clapham Junction that would be well used. The 35 only scratches along the tip of South East London whilst the 345 only goes as far as Peckham which isn't the end of South East London. Lewisham is a major hub with lots of growth potential so I do not understand why it shouldn't be linked into areas like Clapham Junction with its massive train interchange and places like Streatham which is also growing as well. I really don't want to argue, but (having worked in the industry for 16 years in that part of London) I really don't understand how "there no other ways of reaching South East London in just one bus from the Clapham Junction area" is a factor that causes a route to fall apart. A route falling apart is caused by delays followed by the operational constraints of getting the buses back into their time slots. Without delays I believe a double deck bus every 10 minutes matches demand fine on route 37, on which a very small proportion of people are likely to travel from one end to the other (like most routes.) If someone wants to go from Lewisham to Clapham Junction as you state (I'd be quite interested to see some figures of how many people regularly make that journey) they can take a high frequency 436 to Vauxhall and then change to choice of routes 77, 87, 156 or 344. I don't get the issue with that. I personally would benefit from a bus that goes direct from Clapham Junction to Acton/ Ealing... I do not expect it to happen! Who said anything about arguing - I've got an opinion and you've got an opinion and they happen to differ that's all.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 22:09:54 GMT
I think there would be great demand for an easy to west link across South London. There's really only the 37 and it's falls apart regularly because it's pratically the only east to west link. In contrast, North London has a number of east to west links that work very well so I don't see why it would be a bad idea. I'm also a bit lost as to why Nine Elms Lane needs extra capacity - I've always felt capacity along there is more than sufficient. I agree, I can't see the occupants of all the 'Lego Towers' being built there queuing for a bus! SE London to Clapham Junction... The only real option is train. If you attempt that journey on a bus then you need a lot of time on your hands. 436 diversion is not in the public interest. Instead I would be looking at a modest frequency increase on the 44. Extend 452 to Stockwell Station so it links in with Victoria Line & Northern Line. At least then it would serve real Londoners in social housing rather than part time dwellers in segregated compounds
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 15:24:01 GMT
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