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Post by snoggle on Apr 1, 2019 23:09:09 GMT
Seems the 710s are back out - one on the GOBLIN going back and forth for a few hours and one on the WCML doing Wembley - Milton Keynes runs.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 2, 2019 11:25:42 GMT
Ho hum! Mr O'Neil is from TfL.
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Post by redbus on Apr 2, 2019 13:47:46 GMT
A very interesting twitter feed. A few other points.
BGORUG, the GOBLIN User Group, claim passengers have been left behind on the 1/2 hourly service. Rory O'Neil General Manager of London Overground says he has not seen this, but then I would ask how could he possibly have been on every train at every station. He may not have witnessed it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. At least he accepts a half hourly service isn't good enough.
He has good words to say about the 710 progress, see the quote in snoggle 's post, but the problem is it could really mean anything from the trains being close to entering service on the one hand, to being another year away on the other!
He said there were supplementary buses when the problems hit the GOBLIN at the end of last week, which while 100% true, omits that the buses aren't really a proper replacement.
He also said that if TfL sourced other trains, it isn't so simple as calling Scotrail and 8 weeks of driver training would be needed. Unfortunately there was no follow up to this because by implication he is suggesting it was possible, the issue was really one of insufficient time to get such trains into service on the GOBLIN. This begs the question why it wasn't planned better and this organised earlier when there was not only time, but it was obvious the GOBLIN was a slow motion car crash waiting to happen. You can't on the one hand say a 30 minute service is not good enough, and on the other hand imply that if things had been better planned it could have been avoided by sourcing trains from other operators. Or am I being extremely unfair and cruel here?
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Post by snoggle on Apr 2, 2019 16:14:07 GMT
BGORUG, the GOBLIN User Group, claim passengers have been left behind on the 1/2 hourly service. Rory O'Neil General Manager of London Overground says he has not seen this, but then I would ask how could he possibly have been on every train at every station. He may not have witnessed it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. At least he accepts a half hourly service isn't good enough.
He has good words to say about the 710 progress, see the quote in snoggle 's post, but the problem is it could really mean anything from the trains being close to entering service on the one hand, to being another year away on the other!
He said there were supplementary buses when the problems hit the GOBLIN at the end of last week, which while 100% true, omits that the buses aren't really a proper replacement.
He also said that if TfL sourced other trains, it isn't so simple as calling Scotrail and 8 weeks of driver training would be needed. Unfortunately there was no follow up to this because by implication he is suggesting it was possible, the issue was really one of insufficient time to get such trains into service on the GOBLIN. This begs the question why it wasn't planned better and this organised earlier when there was not only time, but it was obvious the GOBLIN was a slow motion car crash waiting to happen. You can't on the one hand say a 30 minute service is not good enough, and on the other hand imply that if things had been better planned it could have been avoided by sourcing trains from other operators. Or am I being extremely unfair and cruel here? We know for a fact people have been left behind at least once. There was a video clip showing this on Twitter. I've no reason to doubt that the same scenario has been repeated umpteen times since then. Of course TfL are not going to concede, unless presented with irrefutable evidence, that their arrangements are inadequate even though they actually are! The real question about the bus service is two fold. When is it being improved or has that planned improvement been cancelled because of the problems with the 393? Why, when there was no service, was a full replacement not initiated through to Barking from Walthamstow? Why are Ensign buses on standby if TfL don't activate them when they are needed? Also why is there no obvious local publicity that tells people when the supplemental buses run? If they are to be any use they should be screaming the info from the rooftops. I do tend to agree with the user group that the split RRS is rubbish. Running a proper through service would make more sense that the studid arrangement we currently have. On the "use old trains" issue we have a culture clash. The user group has a number of ex BR staff in it. They advocate "old world" solutions that don't work in the current industry structure. TfL have clearly been living on promises from Bombardier and have run out of time. Hindsight is a great thing. In Jan 2018, when the trains were due into service, no one could have predicted that we would be in April 2019 with still no clarity on an in service date. I suspect that TfL really do not want to go through an approvals process with the ORR for use of old trains with, say, platform dispatch staff for fear of it being rejected and having to start again. I also think, but obviously can't prove, that the often acrimonious relationship between the user group and TfL has created an atmosphere where their ideas are not considered worthy of consideration. The fact that the user group reps just keep repeating the same demands clearly doesn't help either. I think we have two sides of a debate which won't back down or compromise for fear of somehow losing face. Not unlike a certain other never ending debate cum crisis going on in the country. The thing we still do not have is full and regular disclosure of what is going on, what should be happening and whether it is on programme or not. The much vaunted "deal" between the Mayor, TfL Commissioner and senior people at Bombardier has never been disclosed in detail. We therefore have no way of verifying if Bombardier have kept their word or whether it was a load of old BS and what the Mayor and Commissioner have done in response. This is a palpable lack of transparency. By way of contrast I recently found out about a new underground tram line in San Francisco. I went to the project website to see what was happening. Sadly that project is running late. However I was able to download a 61 page report showing all the contract payments and milestones, an explanation of what's gone wrong, what's being done about it and the risks around a large project claim submitted by the main contractor. I've seen similar on projects in Hong Kong. Those places don't have anything like the hangups we apparently have about commercial confidentiality and business affairs - it's all there for anyone to see. We could do with the same for Network Rail and TfL.
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Post by richard on Apr 3, 2019 23:17:57 GMT
Just seen a unidentified 710 passing Crouch Hill heading towards Gospel Oak looks like testing has resumed
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 4, 2019 22:39:36 GMT
BGORUG, the GOBLIN User Group, claim passengers have been left behind on the 1/2 hourly service. Rory O'Neil General Manager of London Overground says he has not seen this, but then I would ask how could he possibly have been on every train at every station. He may not have witnessed it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. At least he accepts a half hourly service isn't good enough.
He has good words to say about the 710 progress, see the quote in snoggle 's post, but the problem is it could really mean anything from the trains being close to entering service on the one hand, to being another year away on the other!
He said there were supplementary buses when the problems hit the GOBLIN at the end of last week, which while 100% true, omits that the buses aren't really a proper replacement.
He also said that if TfL sourced other trains, it isn't so simple as calling Scotrail and 8 weeks of driver training would be needed. Unfortunately there was no follow up to this because by implication he is suggesting it was possible, the issue was really one of insufficient time to get such trains into service on the GOBLIN. This begs the question why it wasn't planned better and this organised earlier when there was not only time, but it was obvious the GOBLIN was a slow motion car crash waiting to happen. You can't on the one hand say a 30 minute service is not good enough, and on the other hand imply that if things had been better planned it could have been avoided by sourcing trains from other operators. Or am I being extremely unfair and cruel here? We know for a fact people have been left behind at least once. There was a video clip showing this on Twitter. I've no reason to doubt that the same scenario has been repeated umpteen times since then. Of course TfL are not going to concede, unless presented with irrefutable evidence, that their arrangements are inadequate even though they actually are! The real question about the bus service is two fold. When is it being improved or has that planned improvement been cancelled because of the problems with the 393? Why, when there was no service, was a full replacement not initiated through to Barking from Walthamstow? Why are Ensign buses on standby if TfL don't activate them when they are needed? Also why is there no obvious local publicity that tells people when the supplemental buses run? If they are to be any use they should be screaming the info from the rooftops. I do tend to agree with the user group that the split RRS is rubbish. Running a proper through service would make more sense that the studid arrangement we currently have. On the "use old trains" issue we have a culture clash. The user group has a number of ex BR staff in it. They advocate "old world" solutions that don't work in the current industry structure. TfL have clearly been living on promises from Bombardier and have run out of time. Hindsight is a great thing. In Jan 2018, when the trains were due into service, no one could have predicted that we would be in April 2019 with still no clarity on an in service date. I suspect that TfL really do not want to go through an approvals process with the ORR for use of old trains with, say, platform dispatch staff for fear of it being rejected and having to start again. I also think, but obviously can't prove, that the often acrimonious relationship between the user group and TfL has created an atmosphere where their ideas are not considered worthy of consideration. The fact that the user group reps just keep repeating the same demands clearly doesn't help either. I think we have two sides of a debate which won't back down or compromise for fear of somehow losing face. Not unlike a certain other never ending debate cum crisis going on in the country. The thing we still do not have is full and regular disclosure of what is going on, what should be happening and whether it is on programme or not. The much vaunted "deal" between the Mayor, TfL Commissioner and senior people at Bombardier has never been disclosed in detail. We therefore have no way of verifying if Bombardier have kept their word or whether it was a load of old BS and what the Mayor and Commissioner have done in response. This is a palpable lack of transparency. By way of contrast I recently found out about a new underground tram line in San Francisco. I went to the project website to see what was happening. Sadly that project is running late. However I was able to download a 61 page report showing all the contract payments and milestones, an explanation of what's gone wrong, what's being done about it and the risks around a large project claim submitted by the main contractor. I've seen similar on projects in Hong Kong. Those places don't have anything like the hangups we apparently have about commercial confidentiality and business affairs - it's all there for anyone to see. We could do with the same for Network Rail and TfL. It was not advertised, but the Walthamstow - Leytonstone rail replacement was extended to Barking when the train was down. Even last week this happened. However it was not done with additional buses as the standby cover has not been done. This was with the existing buses, so extending the headway a bit. The over generous stand time would take up some slack though.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 5, 2019 20:47:39 GMT
This is beyond shambolic at this sort of hour. I feel sorry for anyone commuting this late at night only to be dumped in Tottenham.
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Post by rif153 on Apr 5, 2019 20:57:46 GMT
This is beyond shambolic at this sort of hour. I feel sorry for anyone commuting this late at night only to be dumped in Tottenham. Oh dear, not again. I wonder how many people have lost faith in the GOBLIN given that you get debacle after debacle. The GOBLIN is a vital radial rail line to have which provides many useful connections. Whilst I feel sorry for everyone who's journey is being affected by this shambles, I really feel for people who are trying to travel longer distances on the GOBLIN. For them, there are no alternatives. The supplementary bus service doesn't serve South Tottenham and trying to get from there to Leytonstone High Road/Wanstead Park/Woodgrange Park/Barking using public transport without the GOBLIN is an absoloute nightmare
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 5, 2019 21:00:49 GMT
This is beyond shambolic at this sort of hour. I feel sorry for anyone commuting this late at night only to be dumped in Tottenham. Oh dear, not again. I wonder how many people have lost faith in the GOBLIN given that you get debacle after debacle. The GOBLIN is a vital radial rail line to have which provides many useful connections. Whilst I feel sorry for everyone who's journey is being affected by this shambles, I really feel for people who are trying to travel longer distances on the GOBLIN. For them, there are no alternatives. The supplementary bus service doesn't serve South Tottenham and trying to get from there to Leytonstone High Road/Wanstead Park/Woodgrange Park/Barking using public transport without the GOBLIN is an absoloute nightmare Exactly, I imagine the rail replacement has been extended to Barking again but trying to make almost any connection between the stations of the Goblin using alternative public transport East of Walthamstow is very difficult. You could probably manage to use them between one station but more than that and you're stuffed. Just to get from Barking to Woodgrange Park involves two buses.
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Post by sid on Apr 5, 2019 21:03:23 GMT
Oh dear, not again. I wonder how many people have lost faith in the GOBLIN given that you get debacle after debacle. The GOBLIN is a vital radial rail line to have which provides many useful connections. Whilst I feel sorry for everyone who's journey is being affected by this shambles, I really feel for people who are trying to travel longer distances on the GOBLIN. For them, there are no alternatives. The supplementary bus service doesn't serve South Tottenham and trying to get from there to Leytonstone High Road/Wanstead Park/Woodgrange Park/Barking using public transport without the GOBLIN is an absoloute nightmare Exactly, I imagine the rail replacement has been extended to Barking again but trying to make almost any connection between the stations of the Goblin using alternative public transport East of Walthamstow is very difficult. You could probably manage to use them between one station but more than that and you're stuffed. Just to get from Barking to Woodgrange Park involves two buses. "..........more trains than usual are needing repairs at the same time".......apparently! m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/disruption/details/775798C8DCA44CB68B03EB0D540315E0
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Post by vjaska on Apr 5, 2019 21:26:54 GMT
Oh dear, not again. I wonder how many people have lost faith in the GOBLIN given that you get debacle after debacle. The GOBLIN is a vital radial rail line to have which provides many useful connections. Whilst I feel sorry for everyone who's journey is being affected by this shambles, I really feel for people who are trying to travel longer distances on the GOBLIN. For them, there are no alternatives. The supplementary bus service doesn't serve South Tottenham and trying to get from there to Leytonstone High Road/Wanstead Park/Woodgrange Park/Barking using public transport without the GOBLIN is an absoloute nightmare Exactly, I imagine the rail replacement has been extended to Barking again but trying to make almost any connection between the stations of the Goblin using alternative public transport East of Walthamstow is very difficult. You could probably manage to use them between one station but more than that and you're stuffed. Just to get from Barking to Woodgrange Park involves two buses. Awaits the, "it's a minor branch line in the grand scheme of things" or "connections by bus along the route are easy to make" sentences to pop up
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Post by busaholic on Apr 5, 2019 22:23:35 GMT
This is beyond shambolic at this sort of hour. I feel sorry for anyone commuting this late at night only to be dumped in Tottenham. The wording there is so dismissive. 'Evening all' indeed: an organisation sorely in need of a rude awakening.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 6, 2019 11:06:48 GMT
This is beyond shambolic at this sort of hour. I feel sorry for anyone commuting this late at night only to be dumped in Tottenham. The wording there is so dismissive. 'Evening all' indeed: an organisation sorely in need of a rude awakening. Nothing wrong with it, it is twitter, not posting this on their website. lucky they even bother to put out any info.
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Post by sid on Apr 6, 2019 11:13:45 GMT
The wording there is so dismissive. 'Evening all' indeed: an organisation sorely in need of a rude awakening. Nothing wrong with it, it is twitter, not posting this on their website. lucky they even bother to put out any info. You'll go far with that attitude lol. I'm afraid I'd have to agree, appallingly worded.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 6, 2019 11:14:53 GMT
This is beyond shambolic at this sort of hour. I feel sorry for anyone commuting this late at night only to be dumped in Tottenham. Well they were advised to connect to the Victoria line at Seven Sisters to continue the journey to Walthamstow where they could get the rail replacement bus extended to Barking from Leytonstone because of this. But then you don't see this info on just reading tweets.
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