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Post by routew15 on Feb 1, 2016 17:51:09 GMT
TfL has launched a consultation today to make major changes to the buses in the Orpington area. Orpington changes consultation pageThese proposals have been brought in by a review of buses in the area. Orpington bus review documentFirst up is the R1 -source: TfL consultation page R2 proposals -source: TfL consultation page R3 proposals -source: TfL consultation page R7 proposals -source: TfL consultation page Last but not least R11 changes -source: TfL consultation page Consultation closes Sunday 13 March 2016 Sunday 20th March 2016
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 1, 2016 18:01:35 GMT
Awaits a Double Decker to Apppear on the R2 . When I last did the R2 between Biggin Hill & Orpington no one boarded the bus, so it the R2 likely to have any useage? I think the R7 idea is a good idea creates a new link between Chislehurst & Orpington, however means Stagecoach need to order some buses to cover this PVR increase most likely in addition I think it should be extended to Gordon, Arms to at least serve the High Street. Not much change to the R11 skipping Foots Cray Tesco & Orpington Hospital out and increased to every 12 mins.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 1, 2016 18:45:04 GMT
Awaits a Double Decker to Apppear on the R2 . When I last did the R2 between Biggin Hill & Orpington no one boarded the bus, so it the R2 likely to have any useage? I think the R7 idea is a good idea creates a new link between Chislehurst & Orpington, however means Stagecoach need to order some buses to cover this PVR increase most likely in addition I think it should be extended to Gordon, Arms to at least serve the High Street. Not much change to the R11 skipping, Edgington Way, Foots Cray Tesco & Orpington Hospital out and increased to every 12 mins. Anytime I've done the R2, it's been really quiet so I'm shocked that they need to shorten it for reliability - really interested to hear from the Orpington lot on here. The R11's removal from Tesco seems like a backward step to me, given it serves a massive nearby residential area.
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Post by danorak on Feb 1, 2016 19:07:53 GMT
Some interesting stuff here - the covering 'review' document is worth a read, with some rejected ideas.
I've called on here for a review of the Orpington network for some time. I think there's a couple of changes here though that could be contentious. Routeing the R1/R3 via Tower Road looks more about avoiding a double run than providing that road with a service. And losing the link to Foots Cray Tesco from St Pauls Cray may not go down that well. Running the R7 to Chislehurst War Memorial is peculiar - no doubt it's to do with running times and the resources available, but it's a bit of a nothing terminus from the south western direction. Would it be better to run to Chislehurst Sainsburys via Prince Imperial Road? It's tantalisingly close to QM Hospital but probably not achievable.
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Post by ibus246 on Feb 1, 2016 19:13:19 GMT
Interesting set of proposals especially so soon after the Addington changes - TfL seem to be reviewing areas and implementing changes. Does anyone expect any uproar from residents in this proposal? Perhaps there will be a Croydon review shortly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 19:27:00 GMT
Interesting changes. Will the R7 between Chislehurst and Chelsfield run reliablily? I don't see why the 208 wasn't rerouted to Ramsden Estate. Its interesting how Ramsden Estate was considered one of the most isolated in terms of bus services yet there are no changes there!
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Post by ibus246 on Feb 1, 2016 19:39:54 GMT
Interesting changes. Will the R7 between Chislehurst and Chelsfield run reliablily? I don't see why the 208 wasn't rerouted to Ramsden Estate. Its interesting how Ramsden Estate was considered one of the most isolated in terms of bus services yet there are no changes there! If the 208 was rerouted via Ramsden Estate it is unreliability waiting to happen - the route is already long enough as it is and serves lots of Core town centres IMO
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 1, 2016 20:09:31 GMT
Interesting changes. Will the R7 between Chislehurst and Chelsfield run reliablily? I don't see why the 208 wasn't rerouted to Ramsden Estate. Its interesting how Ramsden Estate was considered one of the most isolated in terms of bus services yet there are no changes there! If the 208 was rerouted via Ramsden Estate it is unreliability waiting to happen - the route is already long enough as it is and serves lots of Core town centres IMO Agreed. The 208 as a whole is not very long, about 11 Miles, the 320 funny enough is 12 miles. The amount of people who use the route just makes journey times a lot longer and drag. Lewisham to Bromley can take up at least 40 minutes during the peaks. The route is very reliable though turns are rare.
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Post by lonmark on Feb 1, 2016 20:54:29 GMT
R1 - I have no problem with it.
R2 - I agree with it. I never see this so busy sections at all. it only when at school times. It best way to be withdrawn between Petts Wood and Orpington.
R3 - About the time for the increase freq for daily. Plus prop best way to broke off from cross-links at PRU Hospital on Evening and All day sunday with R4 is best way. Also good idea to go via Tower Road instead of War Memorial.
R7 - Well, I agree with it most of it but would be better off to terminate at Gordon Arm to service high street (61 termite) instead of War Memorial. I am sure people from Bickley area want to go High Street instead at War Memorial.
R11 - I use this for toward Orpington Hospital but not mind to use R3 instead. However it should not cut off from Tesco at all from St Paul's cray. How people get cross the road from 321 bus stop to other side for R11 but road is quite busy!
In all of this bus network is not that bad. Well Done to TfL for right thing to do if go ahead with it. However it only little change may need!
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Post by snoggle on Feb 1, 2016 21:34:47 GMT
Interesting proposals and also some interesting rejected ideas. Slight shame there's not more detail to support why some of the options have been rejected. Some comments. 1. Like the R7 extension to Chislehurst but should really serve the High Street and stand with the 61. Improved frequency is good as is the Sunday service. I wonder if the people at Acquila Estate will object to more buses running through their estate on a double run? 2. Not really sure that cutting the R1's frequency makes much sense really. Shfting one bph on the R11 just means less chance of a co-ordinated headway on the core section through Orpington. 3. The overall thrust of the proposals is to try to make some improvements but balanced by cuts elsewhere - presumably to avoid incurring any additional cost on the network. 4. Pity the demands for extra buses to Knockholt Station are from Green St Green otherwise doing a quick loop from the R7/R3 loop at Chelsfield would be the way to achieve that. 5. Not convinced that taking the R11 away from Foots Cray Tescos helps anyone. 6. I wonder what the Poverest area has done to deserve losing 2 buses per hour. 7. Disappointing that TfL won't even trial an interworked solution for the really low frequency services. Interesting (but perhaps not a shock) to note that the move away from a clockface headway resulted in a patronage loss on the R7. 8. It is interesting that TfL have done the "this bus is busiest at this place at this time and needs x buses to meet this demand" technique in the report. Shows that the network is pretty much overbussed at all times. Nowhere seems overstressed although having been on a R4 at school chucking out time I don't think I've ever seen so many people on a small Dart. Time to go to Orpington and fill in the gaps I haven't done.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 21:45:55 GMT
Have had a quick look through this: I agree with others - I disagree with removing the R11 from serving Foots Cray Tesco. I think it should continue to run as now. Why TfL have put that the 321 would still serve Foots Cray Tesco is beyond me - it doesn't go into Orpington whatsoever so it's just not relevant! Are they covering for the fact they are cutting a link for many living on the R11 route? Adding to the fact that people still wanting this link would have to cross near the Crittall's Corner roundabout and walk for at least a mile. Note that the 321's first-last stop is Foots Cray Tesco so basically TfL is forcing these people to walk to the Tesco!?! They can't get a 321 back as it goes nowhere near Orpington as previously stated. Not happy with this one at all!!!!! On the other hand, the R7 idea has potential and opens up some interesting new links (i.e. you can now get a bus from Chislehurst to Chelsfield) - but it's not really a 'roundabout' route anymore is it? Still, I like the idea. I was at first a little concerned about overbussing Bromley Road, but as the R7 does not head up into Bromley a la routes 162/269 it looks fine to me. The R3 routing on the other hand looks a little silly, especially on the diagrams TfL have provided. Especially if you thought about riding it end-to-end, it's effectively going a very long way round to get from one hospital to another and I can see passengers from Princess Royal Hospital just travelling via another quicker route to Orpington Hospital. I can see it being better used in the Petts Wood area (which loses the R2 and hereby forces people onto the R3) and to provide a quick link from the Walnuts Centre to the Hospital but that is all unfortunately. Plus, I'm pretty sure we've got another broken link here with Chelsfield now losing their link to Princess Royal Hospital Back to Petts Wood, with the R2, and with it now being rerouted away from this area as well this means Petts Wood loses some links, such as to Biggin Hill (though, not being a local, I can't say if these were well-used or not. Hence TfL perhaps rerouting.) Anyway, I can't comment much for this route but it does as with the R7 look like it has some potential (certainly more than can be said for the new R3 service). It also looks like it runs in a straight line, which should help with reliability. I like the idea for the R1 actually, I do think Tower Road gaining a service could be welcomed. Locals can correct me if I'm wrong. I do also think Sevenoaks Road is sufficiently bussed. Besides, the R1 would only be losing a tiny part of its current routing. So actually it's a more of a hit than a miss for me, the big loser here is the R3 for me and the Poverest Road area (what did they do to TfL? ). Everything seems to be geared toward reliability which is all fine but I don't like the idea for the R11. Interested to hear anyone who regularly uses these routes and see what they think of it. I wonder if TfL have thought about to changes to any of the other R routes, which gradually seemed to be being turned into more than just roundabout services. I'll have a read of the PDF on the TfL website now and see what other suggestions were made and see if I can come up with any myself. With that, I'm out EDIT: I agree with others that the R7 should be extended to perhaps terminate at Chislehurst, Gordon Arms. There does look to be sufficient stand-space (?)
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Post by Paul on Feb 1, 2016 23:13:45 GMT
I had no idea there was even a review into Orpington's bus services being carried out so news of a consultation comes as something of a surprise especially with one of the routes being consulted upon being one I drive! I've had a look and thought I'd offer my views. The R1 idea I like; I've often thought Tower Road could be used more effectively and this is a good way of achieving this I don't see the R2 at the Petts Wood side very often so can't really comment but it seems to be a rather large chunk of the route being removed. I daresay this is not the part of the route that causes unreliability; Locksbottom and Croydon Road are the more likely candidates. That said I don't suspect this change would affect too many people The R3 has always been a loopy route and this simply brings the two termini even closer together! I can't really see too many problems with this change though If the R3 change went ahead then you'd simply have to remove the R11 from Orpington Hospital - I don't believe the space would be there for it to continue. However, removing the R11 from Foots Cray Tesco would be madness. It's a well used link from St Pauls Cray (not least by my wife for work - and she's by no means alone in that) and removing it would be a massive mistake And then the R7. Firstly, I don't think the change would go down too well with the route's regular punters. They are quite resistant to change and would see this as 'taking away their route.' Any changes would need to be heavily advertised and as drivers we would need to make sure the regulars know exactly what is happening I have little problem with the extension to Chelsfield Village. Something needs to take over the R3 section so it might as well be the R7 - although is there a case to be made for the R2 taking it over? I'm not too sure about the extension at the other end though. Even leaving aside the fact that Chislehurst War Memorial is a strange place to terminate (Gordon Arms or Queen Mary's would be better) actually getting there will pose a problem. Summer Hill and Bromley Lane are nightmares in the peaks and the Chelsfield end of the route will suffer. On balance I say leave it at the Aquila And the Sunday service? I've said since I started driving it that a Sunday service would probably be fairly well used and genuinely believe this - might also mean no 261s on a Sunday for me anymore! I'm going to be very interested to see how this one pans out
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Post by danorak on Feb 1, 2016 23:22:10 GMT
I'm pretty sure that Tower Road figured in the early stages of the original Roundabout proposals. The reduction on Poverest Road and the northern bit of the R1 are probably due to the 273 having started covering these bits since these routes were last looked at in detail. The frequency on the Chelsfield bit of the R1 looks a bit low to me. The R7 Chislehurst extension is an odd one: I can only assume this is aimed at providing a commuter link to Chislehurst staion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 23:38:45 GMT
But how many people use the Foots Cray Tesco , when there is a much bigger one in Orpington !!??
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Post by Dreamies on Feb 1, 2016 23:52:40 GMT
Its not exactly a nice walk from the estate to Tescos so I'm against removing R11 from Footscray Tesco. However that Tesco does seem to be over bussed with empty 321' s
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