|
Post by snoggle on Feb 15, 2016 11:23:55 GMT
I do think there should be a local route possibly running along St Johns Road then left into Crofton Lane, right into Chislehurst Road, right into Mayfield Avenue, left into Knoll Rise and down into Orpington. Might expand on this in the correct thread! Wasn't this the route of the original R7? I think the Mayfield Ave/Knoll Rise section was abandoned when traffic calming was installed, although I'm not sure it's any more severe than you'd find elsewhere. I just did the old Streetview look and there is one speed table on Mayfield Ave and it doesn't look that severe to me. The ones on Hoe St in Walthamstow look worse and hundreds of buses bang over those every day. The local roads in leafy Orpington look like a veritable mill pond in comparison and wouldn't pose any issue to a small midibus trunding along them. Obviously the roads we're talking about are in a well to do area but there are a lot of houses well away from a bus service and a simple service would surely be of help to a proportion of residents plus people visiting the area. I look forward to seeing what Paul comes up with when he gets back to a keyboard.
|
|
|
Post by southeastlondonbus on Feb 15, 2016 11:25:32 GMT
I do think there should be a local route possibly running along St Johns Road then left into Crofton Lane, right into Chislehurst Road, right into Mayfield Avenue, left into Knoll Rise and down into Orpington. Might expand on this in the correct thread! Wasn't this the route of the original R7? I think the Mayfield Ave/Knoll Rise section was abandoned when traffic calming was installed, although I'm not sure it's any more severe than you'd find elsewhere. Correct my late Father was a driver at OB at the time and that was the reason given for the abandonment of that section of the original R7.
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Feb 15, 2016 11:45:27 GMT
Wasn't this the route of the original R7? I think the Mayfield Ave/Knoll Rise section was abandoned when traffic calming was installed, although I'm not sure it's any more severe than you'd find elsewhere. I just did the old Streetview look and there is one speed table on Mayfield Ave and it doesn't look that severe to me. The ones on Hoe St in Walthamstow look worse and hundreds of buses bang over those every day. The local roads in leafy Orpington look like a veritable mill pond in comparison and wouldn't pose any issue to a small midibus trunding along them. Obviously the roads we're talking about are in a well to do area but there are a lot of houses well away from a bus service and a simple service would surely be of help to a proportion of residents plus people visiting the area. I look forward to seeing what Paul comes up with when he gets back to a keyboard. Having just done the same (it's amazing what you can find to do when you should be working...), I'm wondering whether the traffic calming has been amended since the original R7 abandoned this section. There's next to nothing there other than a few flat top humps of the type you'd find on most routes these days. To me, this illustrates why the sort of intermittent fiddling with routes we've seen around Orpington in recent years is the wrong way to go. It really needs a root-and-branch review of the sort it had 30 years ago.
|
|
|
Post by jay38a on Feb 15, 2016 12:30:20 GMT
I do think there should be a local route possibly running along St Johns Road then left into Crofton Lane, right into Chislehurst Road, right into Mayfield Avenue, left into Knoll Rise and down into Orpington. Might expand on this in the correct thread! Wasn't this the route of the original R7? I think the Mayfield Ave/Knoll Rise section was abandoned when traffic calming was installed, although I'm not sure it's any more severe than you'd find elsewhere. The R5 when it went to Petts Wood it used St Johns Road then when left down Crofton Lane then followed the 61 into Orpington. Ive seen MB drivers running light using Mayfeild Ave so it is possible if taken slowly. I have taken a bus down Knoll Rise/Lynwood Grove when i was run light from Petts Wood to Orpington War Memorial on Route R2.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 16, 2016 1:56:44 GMT
Wasn't this the route of the original R7? I think the Mayfield Ave/Knoll Rise section was abandoned when traffic calming was installed, although I'm not sure it's any more severe than you'd find elsewhere. I just did the old Streetview look and there is one speed table on Mayfield Ave and it doesn't look that severe to me. The ones on Hoe St in Walthamstow look worse and hundreds of buses bang over those every day. The local roads in leafy Orpington look like a veritable mill pond in comparison and wouldn't pose any issue to a small midibus trunding along them. Obviously the roads we're talking about are in a well to do area but there are a lot of houses well away from a bus service and a simple service would surely be of help to a proportion of residents plus people visiting the area. I look forward to seeing what Paul comes up with when he gets back to a keyboard. Out of interest, I also did a Streetview of Mayfield Avenue - first thing I saw was the road had been recently resurfaced so I assumed straight away that the speed table was tarmaced as well but closer inspection showed that it's a bricked speed table and it doesn't look too severe though looks can be deceiving like a lot of Southwarks road humps and one speed table on Woolstone Road on the 75 which 'londonbusboy' can back me up on.
|
|
|
Post by londonbusboy on Feb 16, 2016 11:45:49 GMT
I just did the old Streetview look and there is one speed table on Mayfield Ave and it doesn't look that severe to me. The ones on Hoe St in Walthamstow look worse and hundreds of buses bang over those every day. The local roads in leafy Orpington look like a veritable mill pond in comparison and wouldn't pose any issue to a small midibus trunding along them. Obviously the roads we're talking about are in a well to do area but there are a lot of houses well away from a bus service and a simple service would surely be of help to a proportion of residents plus people visiting the area. I look forward to seeing what Paul comes up with when he gets back to a keyboard. Out of interest, I also did a Streetview of Mayfield Avenue - first thing I saw was the road had been recently resurfaced so I assumed straight away that the speed table was tarmaced as well but closer inspection showed that it's a bricked speed table and it doesn't look too severe though looks can be deceiving like a lot of Southwarks road humps and one speed table on Woolstone Road on the 75 which 'londonbusboy' can back me up on. I can indeed also the 314 buses suffer with the high speed tables on William Barefoot Drive [EDIT] Single door buses seem to suffer more with high speed tables (this is when ive had one on 314) and before anyone suggests i do not go fast over them!
|
|
|
Post by LondonBusMan1 on Feb 19, 2016 18:55:17 GMT
Does anyone know if the PVRs of the R1, R2, R3, R7 and R11 will change if the route changes happen?
|
|
|
Post by LondonBusMan1 on Feb 19, 2016 19:30:49 GMT
I think the R7 should still terminate at Chislehurst War Memorial as planned because the 61 already links Orpington with Chislehurst High Street and takes quicker.
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Feb 19, 2016 20:00:44 GMT
Does anyone know if the PVRs of the R1, R2, R3, R7 and R11 will change if the route changes happen? Guess is good as mine R1 Frequency reduction to every 20 mins, 3 BPH, diverted to serve Tower Road - PVR 5? R2 Withdrawn between Orpington & Petts Wood - PVR 2? R3 diverted to Orpington Hospital - re-routed via R2 Amhurst Drive Same PVR of 4 R7 Extended to Chelsfied Village & Chislehurst, War Memorial PVR 4? R11 Double runs removed which take probably 5 mins each way, frequency increased to every 12 mins PVR remain as 7 or +1 to 8?
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 19, 2016 20:19:59 GMT
I think the R7 should still terminate at Chislehurst War Memorial as planned because the 61 already links Orpington with Chislehurst High Street and takes quicker. Personally, I think the R7 would be better off terminating at Queen Mary's Hospital, providing the area south of Bickley with a link to a hospital.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Feb 19, 2016 20:21:21 GMT
Does anyone know if the PVRs of the R1, R2, R3, R7 and R11 will change if the route changes happen? Given there are route curtailments and frequency reductions plus the odd improvement then yes there certainly will be PVR changes. Given several of these routes are up for retender anyway then the winning operators may find more efficient ways of running the routes which could bring PVR changes too. I suspect TfL are also trying to get the cost base for some services more in line with the revenue / benefit side of things hence cuts to some routes, rationalisation to shift patronage to a parallel route or changes to bolster a fairly weak route, e.g. the R7, by upping the frequency and extending it to draw more punters in. Even with all of this the Orpington area is probably over supplied with buses when you look at the consultation info and how TfL have presented it. It's a subtle way of saying "don't bother complaining about these changes because you are over supplied with buses given the level of use on the network". If people go over the top with their moans TfL could turn round and say "oh well we have to find some more savings now so we'll lop off 1 bus an hour on that route, that route and that route and we'll scrap the Sunday service on that route" and they'd be perfectly justified in doing so. The remaining service levels would still be way better and fares much cheaper than in adjacent areas in deregulated Kent.
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Feb 19, 2016 20:31:22 GMT
I think the R7 should still terminate at Chislehurst War Memorial as planned because the 61 already links Orpington with Chislehurst High Street and takes quicker. Personally, I think the R7 would be better off terminating at Queen Mary's Hospital, providing the area south of Bickley with a link to a hospital. Only problem with that is space is limited there. I think Gordon Arms will be the perfect terminus, instead of wasting money making the Chislehurst, War Memorial stand bigger, when Gordon Arm's can already accomadate that 61 & R7.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 19, 2016 20:55:53 GMT
Personally, I think the R7 would be better off terminating at Queen Mary's Hospital, providing the area south of Bickley with a link to a hospital. Only problem with that is space is limited there. I think Gordon Arms will be the perfect terminus, instead of wasting money making the Chislehurst, War Memorial stand bigger, when Gordon Arm's can already accomadate that 61 & R7. You make a good point regarding space there - I definitely agree that the War Memorial is not an ideal terminus for the R7 as apposed to the 161 because it would terminate short of the shopping area of Chislehurst & also Queen Mary's Hospital which would be the two biggest links that could be created IMO
|
|
|
Post by ibus246 on Feb 19, 2016 21:01:46 GMT
Does anyone know if the PVRs of the R1, R2, R3, R7 and R11 will change if the route changes happen? Guess is good as mine R1 Frequency reduction to every 20 mins, 3 BPH, diverted to serve Tower Road - PVR 5? R2 Withdrawn between Orpington & Petts Wood - PVR 2? R3 diverted to Orpington Hospital - re-routed via R2 Amhurst Drive Same PVR of 4 R7 Extended to Chelsfied Village & Chislehurst, War Memorial PVR 4? R11 Double runs removed which take probably 5 mins each way, frequency increased to every 12 mins PVR remain as 7 or +1 to 8? I would have thought the R2 would have been 3?
|
|
|
Post by jay38a on Feb 20, 2016 22:06:54 GMT
Guess is good as mine R1 Frequency reduction to every 20 mins, 3 BPH, diverted to serve Tower Road - PVR 5? R2 Withdrawn between Orpington & Petts Wood - PVR 2? R3 diverted to Orpington Hospital - re-routed via R2 Amhurst Drive Same PVR of 4 R7 Extended to Chelsfied Village & Chislehurst, War Memorial PVR 4? R11 Double runs removed which take probably 5 mins each way, frequency increased to every 12 mins PVR remain as 7 or +1 to 8? I would have thought the R2 would have been 3? Yep sould be 3, as buses pass around Amhurst Drive, Crofton Road and Biggin Hill Airport at the moment, so terminating it in Orpington would give buses about 15-20 mins recovery.
|
|