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Post by goaheadswvlrbest on Feb 6, 2016 11:25:32 GMT
Looks like another reduction in service plan by TFL. not everyone travels by rail/overground as Snoggle mentioned, the extra 30s will only run in the peaks not a general frequency upgrade which is disappointing .
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Post by LX09FBJ on Feb 6, 2016 11:37:02 GMT
Yet more "we don't like roundabouts" nonsense from TfL for Highbury Corner. The 277 also to get the chop between Dalston and Highbury and Islington. More 30s to run instead. A N277 to be created that will run Leamouth to Angel. Bizarrely TfL seem to believe the 30 runs to Oxford Circus. consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/highbury-corner-roundaboutWhat an utter load of nonsense - TfL are seemingly enjoying maker traffic flows even worse. What evidence are they seriously considering to start banishing every one way system & roundabout going? They can still work with improved cycle facilities but no, that's beyond TfL to even consider that. Elephant & Castle is a good example of a mess - my mum works for a store near Elephant & Castle and the workers who have to travel through the place absolutely hate the new layout as their journey times have increased. I can almost guarantee the same will happen at Stockwell, Vauxhall, Wandsworth & Highbury - oh guess what, Tulse Hill will be going two way as well according to some sources on the web - excellent NOT As for the 277, it's a shame that an alternative stand couldn't be found around Highbury & Islington - baring any issues with residents or trees, couldn't a stand be erected on Canonbury Road with buses running via Canonbury Square & Grange Grove (removing the width restriction) onto St. Paul's Road. Its not the most ideal way to terminate it but it means that buses still serve Highbury & Islington and residents further down the road travelling to Dalston, Hackney & beyond, have an empty bus during the busiest of times. Meanwhile, the N277 can still run to Angel which means local residents that are apposed to buses down their road wouldn't have buses running down their road during the night. Perhaps extending the route to Archway might be possible as an alternative stand option, and adding more links as well. Hopefully all of these cycling vanity projects will come to an end once the new mayor is in office. I seldom see anyone using the cycle "highways".
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Post by TA1 on Feb 6, 2016 12:04:36 GMT
What an utter load of nonsense - TfL are seemingly enjoying maker traffic flows even worse. What evidence are they seriously considering to start banishing every one way system & roundabout going? They can still work with improved cycle facilities but no, that's beyond TfL to even consider that. Elephant & Castle is a good example of a mess - my mum works for a store near Elephant & Castle and the workers who have to travel through the place absolutely hate the new layout as their journey times have increased. I can almost guarantee the same will happen at Stockwell, Vauxhall, Wandsworth & Highbury - oh guess what, Tulse Hill will be going two way as well according to some sources on the web - excellent NOT As for the 277, it's a shame that an alternative stand couldn't be found around Highbury & Islington - baring any issues with residents or trees, couldn't a stand be erected on Canonbury Road with buses running via Canonbury Square & Grange Grove (removing the width restriction) onto St. Paul's Road. Its not the most ideal way to terminate it but it means that buses still serve Highbury & Islington and residents further down the road travelling to Dalston, Hackney & beyond, have an empty bus during the busiest of times. Meanwhile, the N277 can still run to Angel which means local residents that are apposed to buses down their road wouldn't have buses running down their road during the night. Perhaps extending the route to Archway might be possible as an alternative stand option, and adding more links as well. Hopefully all of these cycling vanity projects will come to an end once the new mayor is in office. I seldom see anyone using the cycle "highways". With the imminent highway reconstruction occurring in the Archway area, I cannot personally see TFL looking to extend the 277 to Archway despite it potentially opening up new links, as reliability would obviously go down the pan as it has this week on routes running in and around the Archway. TFL would have to spend more money in providing additional resources something they don't seem too keen on, with this proposal and only relying on the 30 solely between Mildmay Park and Highbury, which is absurd. I really cannot understand how bus operators are expected to meet Performance targets with many highways in and around being dug up collectively, a la Muswell Hill Road j/ Alexandra Park Road, Archway Gyratory. I understand that councils have an obligation to maintain roads but a bit of joined up planning wouldn't go a miss to be honest.
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Post by thesquirrels on Feb 6, 2016 12:05:13 GMT
There's an argument to be made that the 'feeder' role the 277 and 30 performed between Hackney and Highbury for the tube has been diminished with the upgrade of the NLL. It was historically a significant one. A decade ago in the morning peak it was often physically impossible to board a train heading west towards Highbury from any station west of Homerton, let alone any of the busier stations closer to Highbury. There was a blog by one of Hackney's early gentrifiers (long since exiled to the shires, and I can't find the link) I would read with mouth-opened horror about the physical violence that would break out on platforms at Hackney Central and Dalston after three trains had passed without having room to let anyone else on. Anyway, the parallel buses traditionally picked up a lot of the slack. On the other hand, a lot of those 'feeder' journeys can be started from Dalston or Canonbury for the same fare/travelcard zone you would pay from Highbury. Perhaps TfL is pushing for a behavioural shift from those able to make the switch where they can. Anyway, from my (daily but admittedly anecdotal) observations the 30 and 277 aren't nearly as busy into Highbury in the mornings/vice versa evenings as they used to be. I'm doubtful that the drop is sufficient to merit losing one of the two routes altogether, though. Two extra peak journeys in each direction sounds like the laziest sort of lip service. There is still the matter of a 50% reduction in services down a fairly substantial leg of inner London main road and a number of broken links.
If TfL hadn't already run the 263 up to Highbury Barn it could have run the route through to Dalston instead to compensate!.. A bus or two in the peak doing Highbury Barn - Corner - Barn loop workings would satisfy the capacity problems there.
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Post by rmz19 on Feb 6, 2016 12:15:28 GMT
Perhaps extending the route to Archway might be possible as an alternative stand option, and adding more links as well. Hopefully all of these cycling vanity projects will come to an end once the new mayor is in office. I seldom see anyone using the cycle "highways". With the imminent highway reconstruction occurring in the Archway area, I cannot personally see TFL looking to extend the 277 to Archway despite it potentially opening up new links, as reliability would obviously go down the pan as it has this week on routes running in and around the Archway. TFL would have to spend more money in providing additional resources something they don't seem too keen on, with this proposal and only relying on the 30 solely between Mildmay Park and Highbury, which is absurd. I really cannot understand how bus operators are expected to meet Performance targets with many highways in and around being dug up collectively, a la Muswell Hill Road j/ Alexandra Park Road, Archway Gyratory. I understand that councils have an obligation to maintain roads but a bit of joined up planning wouldn't go a miss to be honest. Archway is a little far-fetched indeed, Angel or Holloway are good destinations as they aren't too distant to affect the 277's reliability yet would still introduce new links, the former providing support to the 30 between Dalston Junction and Angel. Obviously any extension to the 277 would be costly in TFL's eyes so this is a shame.
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Post by TA1 on Feb 6, 2016 13:02:04 GMT
With the imminent highway reconstruction occurring in the Archway area, I cannot personally see TFL looking to extend the 277 to Archway despite it potentially opening up new links, as reliability would obviously go down the pan as it has this week on routes running in and around the Archway. TFL would have to spend more money in providing additional resources something they don't seem too keen on, with this proposal and only relying on the 30 solely between Mildmay Park and Highbury, which is absurd. I really cannot understand how bus operators are expected to meet Performance targets with many highways in and around being dug up collectively, a la Muswell Hill Road j/ Alexandra Park Road, Archway Gyratory. I understand that councils have an obligation to maintain roads but a bit of joined up planning wouldn't go a miss to be honest. Archway is a little far-fetched indeed, Angel or Holloway are good destinations as they aren't too distant to affect the 277's reliability yet would still introduce new links, the former providing support to the 30 between Dalston Junction and Angel. Obviously any extension to the 277 would be costly in TFL's eyes so this is a shame. I certainly disagree to the curtailment of the 277, simply on the basis of the frequent unreliability of the route 30 it passes too many traffic hotspots and the sole reliance of the 30 between Highbury Corner and Mildmay Park is crazy, Yes the overground covers Dalston Junction/Kingsland and HHY but services in the peak are at breaking point. Many passengers may not want to travel on LO, the rising cost of living in London is spiralling out of control and potentially have to pay more just to make one through journey. Personally, if the road changes went ahead at Highbury Corner, i'd leave the alighting stop as it is. Re-align the route to stand on Canonbury Road @ 'Canonbury Road/Highbury Corner', Turn right at Canonbury Square, ahead canonbury lane, Right onto 'Upper Street', Then serve 'Highbury Corner' to improve interchanges between buses deriving from Angel and the 277.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 21:52:51 GMT
There's an argument to be made that the 'feeder' role the 277 and 30 performed between Hackney and Highbury for the tube has been diminished with the upgrade of the NLL. It was historically a significant one. A decade ago in the morning peak it was often physically impossible to board a train heading west towards Highbury from any station west of Homerton, let alone any of the busier stations closer to Highbury. There was a blog by one of Hackney's early gentrifiers (long since exiled to the shires, and I can't find the link) I would read with mouth-opened horror about the physical violence that would break out on platforms at Hackney Central and Dalston after three trains had passed without having room to let anyone else on. Anyway, the parallel buses traditionally picked up a lot of the slack. On the other hand, a lot of those 'feeder' journeys can be started from Dalston or Canonbury for the same fare/travelcard zone you would pay from Highbury. Perhaps TfL is pushing for a behavioural shift from those able to make the switch where they can. Anyway, from my (daily but admittedly anecdotal) observations the 30 and 277 aren't nearly as busy into Highbury in the mornings/vice versa evenings as they used to be. I'm doubtful that the drop is sufficient to merit losing one of the two routes altogether, though. Two extra peak journeys in each direction sounds like the laziest sort of lip service. There is still the matter of a 50% reduction in services down a fairly substantial leg of inner London main road and a number of broken links. If TfL hadn't already run the 263 up to Highbury Barn it could have run the route through to Dalston instead to compensate!.. A bus or two in the peak doing Highbury Barn - Corner - Barn loop workings would satisfy the capacity problems there. Route 263 could have a 7 stop extension to Dalston Bus Station, or is the Highbury Barn section valuable? There will still be a big reduction, but not as big as TFL are planning. Could the 277 be rerouted to Angel Islington via Essex Road and 56 rerouted via Highbury & Islington, or will the 277 still be unreliable.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 6, 2016 21:58:36 GMT
This is just stupid. Watch when Catford Gyratory becomes 2 way. And masybe even New Cross Traffic flow would be easier if they get rid of the Contraflow Bus Lane and allow two way traffic in both directions for buses and cars. Just stupid that all traffic has to be diverted via Plassy Road meeting up with A205 traffic coming from Brownhill Road just to go straight ahead or onto Catford Road. This is what causes the daily Gridlock Can't imagine the Catford One Way System being two way. Though it is possible. Personally, from my own observations when I did driving lessons through Catford and the millions of times I've passed through over the years, the car park next to Plassy Road is a problem as well as the fact the South Circular passes right through. You could get away with converting Rushey Green to two way but I'd foresee problems if you converted the entire gyratory system.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 6, 2016 21:59:06 GMT
Route 263 could have a 7 stop extension to Dalston Bus Station, or is the Highbury Barn section valuable? There will still be a big reduction, but not as big as TFL are planning. Could the 277 be rerouted to Angel Islington via Essex Road and 56 rerouted via Highbury & Islington, or will the 277 still be unreliable. This is a guess but I suspect the 263 does help out from Highbury Barn. I've read several different accounts that say the 4 and 19 are extremely busy down to Highbury Corner in the peaks meaning the 263 will provide relief on a section where people may otherwise struggle to get on a bus. The main purpose of the 263 is to relieve the 43 and 271 down Holloway Road. The 43 is frequently jammed solid on Holloway Road even off peak so it must be horrendous during peak periods. Happy to be corrected by those who travel on the relevant sections.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 6, 2016 22:52:53 GMT
Just noticed on the TfL bus service change document that, irony of ironies, the 263 is to be curtailed to Highbury and Islington station from 13 Feb 2016 through to March 2017. This is because of the gyratory scheme at Archway. Poor souls at Highbury Barn have just lost their empty buses!
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Post by rmz19 on Feb 6, 2016 23:05:00 GMT
Just noticed on the TfL bus service change document that, irony of ironies, the 263 is to be curtailed to Highbury and Islington station from 13 Feb 2016 through to March 2017. This is because of the gyratory scheme at Archway. Poor souls at Highbury Barn have just lost their empty buses! Great! So more crowded buses on the 4 and 19, which will probably be countered by costly frequency increases on one or both of the latter routes.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 6, 2016 23:31:43 GMT
Just noticed on the TfL bus service change document that, irony of ironies, the 263 is to be curtailed to Highbury and Islington station from 13 Feb 2016 through to March 2017. This is because of the gyratory scheme at Archway. Poor souls at Highbury Barn have just lost their empty buses! It never rains but it's pours is the expression that comes to mind.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 9, 2016 1:22:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 15:06:20 GMT
Now all of this free space is to be crated by the removal of the roundabout, why not have a small bus stand outside Highbury & Islington station now that the road space is being removed? The 277 could stand and turn their. With 277 busses being the only traffic on that patch. Or do only cyclists matter?
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Post by vjaska on Feb 28, 2016 17:28:10 GMT
Now all of this free space is to be crated by the removal of the roundabout, why not have a small bus stand outside Highbury & Islington station now that the road space is being removed? The 277 could stand and turn their. With 277 busses being the only traffic on that patch. Or do only cyclists matter? Sadly, by sticking one their, the problem you face is 277's having issues turning right as it's inevitable that Holloway Road will be clogged full of traffic even worse than now once the madness has been completed. I had idea suggested on the previous page that I've copied and placed below:
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