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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 8:17:32 GMT
www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/nbwy/The free wi fi is a nice touch. Certain Arriva buses operating between Leeds and Wakefield also have free wi fi along with power sockets.
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Post by ServerKing on May 2, 2016 10:38:06 GMT
I guess they will be using a Daimler diesel engined SRM derivative  Wright said they would be making the SRM with the option of the StreetDeck chassis as well as the B5LH.  |
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Post by planesandtrains on May 2, 2016 10:52:32 GMT
An iconic bus for Yorkshire would really fit into the scenery. I like all this Route master revivification even though it costs for the taxpayer.
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Post by vjaska on May 2, 2016 13:28:11 GMT
www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/nbwy/The free wi fi is a nice touch. Certain Arriva buses operating between Leeds and Wakefield also have free wi fi along with power sockets. If they had common sense, they'd run a mile from the idea. |
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Post by snoggle on May 2, 2016 18:30:19 GMT
www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/nbwy/The free wi fi is a nice touch. Certain Arriva buses operating between Leeds and Wakefield also have free wi fi along with power sockets. This whole "Proposal" is just a nasty pre-emptive strike against the leeds trolleybus scheme. First don't want any competition on their main routes and don't want to run the trolleybus. If they had any genuine belief in the NB4L as a viable vehicle then they'd have ordered some for Leeds off their own bat. However they haven't done so - they've ordered Streetdecks and ADL E40s. As is now common with commercial operators many new buses come with wifi and charging sockets / USB slots as standard as a way of attracting people out of their cars by offering the chance to use smartphones, tablets etc. London can't afford to do this because its buses are busy and expensive enough already. It's noteworthy that we've seen absolutely no progress or wider adoption of 1) upper deck spare seats display 2) on bus wi-fi 3) newer, smarter route displays These were all trialled on WHV1 and another bus whose ID I forget. The upper deck seat trial was supposed to be on route 59 but that's been scrapped because of the NB4L conversion and not one word about the better on bus displays. The wifi trial on some NB4Ls has also died the death. Instead we get an obsession with glass staircases and 1950s colour schemes. Talk about upside down and back to front priorities.  |
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Post by vjaska on May 2, 2016 21:24:44 GMT
www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/nbwy/The free wi fi is a nice touch. Certain Arriva buses operating between Leeds and Wakefield also have free wi fi along with power sockets. This whole "Proposal" is just a nasty pre-emptive strike against the leeds trolleybus scheme. First don't want any competition on their main routes and don't want to run the trolleybus. If they had any genuine belief in the NB4L as a viable vehicle then they'd have ordered some for Leeds off their own bat. However they haven't done so - they've ordered Streetdecks and ADL E40s. As is now common with commercial operators many new buses come with wifi and charging sockets / USB slots as standard as a way of attracting people out of their cars by offering the chance to use smartphones, tablets etc. London can't afford to do this because its buses are busy and expensive enough already. It's noteworthy that we've seen absolutely no progress or wider adoption of 1) upper deck spare seats display 2) on bus wi-fi 3) newer, smarter route displays These were all trialled on WHV1 and another bus whose ID I forget. The upper deck seat trial was supposed to be on route 59 but that's been scrapped because of the NB4L conversion and not one word about the better on bus displays. The wifi trial on some NB4Ls has also died the death. Instead we get an obsession with glass staircases and 1950s colour schemes. Talk about upside down and back to front priorities. Has the upper deck seat trial really been scrapped rather than the trial just moving to the 319? |
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Post by fg49 on May 2, 2016 22:20:10 GMT
This whole "Proposal" is just a nasty pre-emptive strike against the leeds trolleybus scheme. First don't want any competition on their main routes and don't want to run the trolleybus. If they had any genuine belief in the NB4L as a viable vehicle then they'd have ordered some for Leeds off their own bat. However they haven't done so - they've ordered Streetdecks and ADL E40s. As is now common with commercial operators many new buses come with wifi and charging sockets / USB slots as standard as a way of attracting people out of their cars by offering the chance to use smartphones, tablets etc. London can't afford to do this because its buses are busy and expensive enough already. It's noteworthy that we've seen absolutely no progress or wider adoption of 1) upper deck spare seats display 2) on bus wi-fi 3) newer, smarter route displays These were all trialled on WHV1 and another bus whose ID I forget. The upper deck seat trial was supposed to be on route 59 but that's been scrapped because of the NB4L conversion and not one word about the better on bus displays. The wifi trial on some NB4Ls has also died the death. Instead we get an obsession with glass staircases and 1950s colour schemes. Talk about upside down and back to front priorities. Has the upper deck seat trial really been scrapped rather than the trial just moving to the 319? I'm sure it was still in place when I was on the 319 the other day. |
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Post by snoggle on May 2, 2016 23:24:26 GMT
This whole "Proposal" is just a nasty pre-emptive strike against the leeds trolleybus scheme. First don't want any competition on their main routes and don't want to run the trolleybus. If they had any genuine belief in the NB4L as a viable vehicle then they'd have ordered some for Leeds off their own bat. However they haven't done so - they've ordered Streetdecks and ADL E40s. As is now common with commercial operators many new buses come with wifi and charging sockets / USB slots as standard as a way of attracting people out of their cars by offering the chance to use smartphones, tablets etc. London can't afford to do this because its buses are busy and expensive enough already. It's noteworthy that we've seen absolutely no progress or wider adoption of 1) upper deck spare seats display 2) on bus wi-fi 3) newer, smarter route displays These were all trialled on WHV1 and another bus whose ID I forget. The upper deck seat trial was supposed to be on route 59 but that's been scrapped because of the NB4L conversion and not one word about the better on bus displays. The wifi trial on some NB4Ls has also died the death. Instead we get an obsession with glass staircases and 1950s colour schemes. Talk about upside down and back to front priorities. Has the upper deck seat trial really been scrapped rather than the trial just moving to the 319? Given TfL's original intent was to trial the technology on route 59 then, being precise, the trial has ended. I am being very pedantic but route 59 is not route 319 and whatever the trial methodology was for route 59 can't simply transfer across to the 319 because it's a different user base. I am assuming here that the trial is not merely quantitative or technical but that TfL would also be seeking the views of drivers and passengers to get their experience of / feedback on the technology. Switching routes means you have to start again if the results are to be deemed "reliable" *if* TfL are going to seek the views of those using route 319. I haven't seen any sort of update from TfL on any of these initiatives from Year of the Bus. We are nearly 10 months on from the Regent St event when much of this new technology was given a "splurge" in terms of exposure to the public. Going back to the original post then it's quite interesting that wifi / luxury interiors are pretty much a no brainer for the better performing commercial services outside London and there's now a level of consensus between the big groups as to what an upmarket spec. In London we have no equivalent at all - I note in the latest buses that TfL are "reluctant" to specify seat design and moquette because of the weight implications but will happily specific all sorts of other stuff that drinks fuel and adds weight. Just seems such a contrast. Also the complete lack of updates from TfL on where were promoted to the travelling public as innovations is also pretty poor. I'd be really interested to see TfL conduct a side by side trial of "luxury spec" modern double deckers alongside conventionally specced vehicles or even, heaven forfend, the NB4L. How about "luxury spec" buses on the X68 / 468 vs NB4Ls on the 68 between Elephant and West Norwood? The results of that would be very interesting to see given it's on a corridor with strong demand and not a lot of rail competition for some trips. |
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Post by astock5000 on May 3, 2016 1:48:28 GMT
Going back to the original post then it's quite interesting that wifi / luxury interiors are pretty much a no brainer for the better performing commercial services outside London and there's now a level of consensus between the big groups as to what an upmarket spec. In London we have no equivalent at all - I note in the latest buses that TfL are "reluctant" to specify seat design and moquette because of the weight implications but will happily specific all sorts of other stuff that drinks fuel and adds weight. Just seems such a contrast. Also the complete lack of updates from TfL on where were promoted to the travelling public as innovations is also pretty poor. I'd be really interested to see TfL conduct a side by side trial of "luxury spec" modern double deckers alongside conventionally specced vehicles or even, heaven forfend, the NB4L. How about "luxury spec" buses on the X68 / 468 vs NB4Ls on the 68 between Elephant and West Norwood? The results of that would be very interesting to see given it's on a corridor with strong demand and not a lot of rail competition for some trips. I travel semi-regularly on NBfLs in London and on Arriva's Sapphire specification Enviro400s and StreetLites between Garston and Watford. I realise I'm probably in the minority on this but I prefer the NBfL. Compared to a conventional London bus I don't have much of a preference either way. I've never really been a fan of leather seats, mainly due to travelling in cars fitted with them where the seats could get very hot on a warm day. That doesn't tend to be the case with leather seats buses but I still prefer moquette seats for some reason. The WiFi and sockets to charge phones and laptops are useful features for many passengers, however I never use my phone so much that I'd need to charge it while on the bus, and I gave up on trying to use the WiFi after I had problems attempting to fill out a survey which is a requirement before you can use it. Sapphire buses are fitted with larger screens than the ones for iBus, but don't show any additional relevant information, and on the Enviro400s the upper deck screen is mounted behind the front row of seats. I may just be unlucky, but it seems to be the case that the screens and next stop announcements on Sapphire are less likely to be working than iBus on a TfL vehicle. Sapphire is definitely a big improvement on normal Arriva services however, but having Sapphire and Max results in a less consistent image for the route network. In Watford we have two routes to Sapphire specification (320 and 321), one normal Arriva local service but with strong route branding and operated at a high frequency (10) and three other non-branded routes (8, 324 and 500). Sapphire and other premium brands have clearly been a success, but while they might not exactly damage the reputation of the other services, I do wonder if passengers attracted to Sapphire are any more likely to consider connecting to a 'normal' route to complete their journey. This is getting off topic but I believe some kind of 'hub and spoke' network is best for outside London where it clearly would not be possible to, for example, connect every part of Watford to St Albans. Obviously for that to work there would need to be substantial changes to many routes, but even so there may already be potential passengers who could make a journey on route 321 and then change to a 324. But if those people did not consider the bus before the 321 was upgraded then I could easily see them not considering route 324, and coming to the conclusion that they won't travel on the 321 as it doesn't get them where they need to go. I wonder if introducing a new livery and specification for all new and refurbished vehicles but still branded as Arriva, Stagecoach, etc, and gradually introducing them across all routes as buses need replacing, could have been similarly successful while keeping things a bit more consistent, or at least give less of an impression that many routes have been forgotten about (keeping older buses in good condition would help with that too, and some operators are better than others at this). So getting back to the point, the consistent brand is one of the reasons I prefer TfL's way of doing things. Of course if TfL were to specify buses with WiFi and so on, the livery would still be all over red and it would just be a new feature that some / all of the latest vehicles would have, as with the glazed staircases and maroon interiors on the NBfL, SRM and Enviro400 City. I'm not sure whether it would be a good idea to introduce those features on London buses though. Passengers would obviously like buses to have WiFi and sockets, but the sockets are only useful if you have a seat and I also doubt it would attract additional passengers in the same way as outside London. As much of the network is near capacity, a large number of additional buses would be required if passenger numbers did increase to that extent, so there doesn't seem to be so much of a case for premium specification buses in London. |
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Post by snoggle on May 3, 2016 17:29:31 GMT
So getting back to the point, the consistent brand is one of the reasons I prefer TfL's way of doing things. Of course if TfL were to specify buses with WiFi and so on, the livery would still be all over red and it would just be a new feature that some / all of the latest vehicles would have, as with the glazed staircases and maroon interiors on the NBfL, SRM and Enviro400 City. I'm not sure whether it would be a good idea to introduce those features on London buses though. Passengers would obviously like buses to have WiFi and sockets, but the sockets are only useful if you have a seat and I also doubt it would attract additional passengers in the same way as outside London. As much of the network is near capacity, a large number of additional buses would be required if passenger numbers did increase to that extent, so there doesn't seem to be so much of a case for premium specification buses in London. I didn't offer a view as to which was best just suggesting that a comparative trial might be useful in understanding passenger preferences and would could work in London and what wouldn't. All that's ever heard about the NB4L from TfL is that it's wonderful and passengers love it. That's not wholly correct as there is plenty of criticism and complaint too. As with anything it's rare there's a singular view or opinion. Many of the points you make would appear to relate to the delivery of the promised better service. I agree with you that it's pretty pointless setting out to offer a higher quality service and then falling flat on your face in terms of what passengers experience. You also raise a valid point about whether differentiated service offers are a good thing or just cause a two or three tier service in terms of passenger experience. If the difference is too stark then I agree some people could be put off or otherwise feel cheated if you only have the "lowest" quality service. |
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Post by Steve Macz on May 18, 2016 22:08:34 GMT
These new Streetdecks are slowly entering services on routes 72 Leeds - Bradford , 42 Old Farnley - Fearnville and in First Express Livery for X6 Leeds - Bradford - Huddersfield.
They also appear on other services , mixed with existing buses for First Leeds too
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Post by snoggle on May 18, 2016 22:13:10 GMT
These new Streetdecks are slowly entering services on routes 72 Leeds - Bradford , 42 Old Farnley - Fearnville and in First Express Livery for X6 Leeds - Bradford - Huddersfield. They also appear on other services , mixed with existing buses for First Leeds too Are the Streetcar bendies on the "Fusion" 72 being withdrawn then? |
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Post by Steve Macz on May 23, 2016 19:58:14 GMT
These new Streetdecks are slowly entering services on routes 72 Leeds - Bradford , 42 Old Farnley - Fearnville and in First Express Livery for X6 Leeds - Bradford - Huddersfield. They also appear on other services , mixed with existing buses for First Leeds too Are the Streetcar bendies on the "Fusion" 72 being withdrawn then? Yes, the plan is that the Streetcar bendies will head into Storage and then either move onto pastures new. Disadvantage is that these buses were futuristic on the outside they used the Under powered B7LA chassis and were on an older Euro 3 engine too. Compared to Euro 4 buses being released around that year of 2006/2007 |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 3, 2016 8:31:29 GMT
Now that Patrick McLoughlin has ruled out the Leeds trolleybus scheme, this could pave the way for First to proceed with their NBfWY scheme.
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Wright said they would be making the SRM with the option of the StreetDeck chassis as well as the B5LH. 
