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Post by SILENCED on Apr 6, 2018 13:00:01 GMT
You said that offering WiFi does not gain customers, just does not lose any. TfL have no competition offering WiFi to lose customers to. Seems you have just made the perfect argument for TfL not to invest in wifi! TfL have got plenty of competition from Uber and such like and they should be looking at ways of making bus travel more attractive. Use buses in Nottingham or Reading and the standards are light years ahead of TfL spec. I am not saying buses could not be better ... just your argument for fitting WiFi was flawed ... as in I have never got in an Uber that provides WiFi ... so flawed argumentative logic. Would you be prepared to pay Nottingham or Reading prices to travel on similar buses in London?
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Post by sid on Apr 6, 2018 13:02:51 GMT
TfL have got plenty of competition from Uber and such like and they should be looking at ways of making bus travel more attractive. Use buses in Nottingham or Reading and the standards are light years ahead of TfL spec. I am not saying buses could not be better ... just your argument for fitting WiFi was flawed ... as in I have never got in an Uber that provides WiFi ... so flawed argumentative logic. I don't whether Uber have WiFi or not but that's beside the point.
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 6, 2018 13:08:24 GMT
I am not saying buses could not be better ... just your argument for fitting WiFi was flawed ... as in I have never got in an Uber that provides WiFi ... so flawed argumentative logic. I don't whether Uber have WiFi or not but that's beside the point. It is not beside the point did as your original statement was that by having a non-Wifi business you stop losing business to WiFi giving competition. That was the basis of your argument to support installing WiFi on buses. Uber does not offer WiFi, so you are now saying by not offering WiFi you risk losing business to another non-WiFi competition ... so in that case the offering of WiFi is not a significant factor in whether to use the bus or Uber.
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Post by sid on Apr 6, 2018 13:15:35 GMT
I don't whether Uber have WiFi or not but that's beside the point. It is not beside the point did as your original statement was that by having a non-Wifi business you stop losing business to WiFi giving competition. That was the basis of your argument to support installing WiFi on buses. Uber does not offer WiFi, so you are now saying by not offering WiFi you risk losing business to another non-WiFi competition ... so in that case the offering of WiFi is not a significant factor in whether to use the bus or Uber. For heavens sake what is the point of all this? You know exactly what point I'm making as you've pretty much agreed with it. If buses have WiFi and uber don't then just maybe for some people it tips the balance just slightly towards bus travel? Now shall we move on rather than clutter up the forum anymore?
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 6, 2018 13:27:23 GMT
It is not beside the point did as your original statement was that by having a non-Wifi business you stop losing business to WiFi giving competition. That was the basis of your argument to support installing WiFi on buses. Uber does not offer WiFi, so you are now saying by not offering WiFi you risk losing business to another non-WiFi competition ... so in that case the offering of WiFi is not a significant factor in whether to use the bus or Uber. For heavens sake what is the point of all this? You know exactly what point I'm making as you've pretty much agreed with it. If buses have WiFi and uber don't then just maybe for some people it tips the balance just slightly towards bus travel? Now shall we move on rather than clutter up the forum anymore? " then just maybe for some people it tips the balance just slightly towards bus travel" ... that would be your business case for investing in WiFi. Definitely water tight when your opening statement was I'm sure the many businesses that offer free WiFi haven't experienced a surge in customers Agreed let's not clutter the forum any more!
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Post by sid on Apr 6, 2018 13:30:43 GMT
For heavens sake what is the point of all this? You know exactly what point I'm making as you've pretty much agreed with it. If buses have WiFi and uber don't then just maybe for some people it tips the balance just slightly towards bus travel? Now shall we move on rather than clutter up the forum anymore? " then just maybe for some people it tips the balance just slightly towards bus travel" ... that would be your business case for investing in WiFi. Definitely water tight when your opening statement was I'm sure the many businesses that offer free WiFi haven't experienced a surge in customers Agreed let's not clutter the forum any more! This makes no sense whatsoever to me but anyway, life really is too short!
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 6, 2018 13:44:12 GMT
" then just maybe for some people it tips the balance just slightly towards bus travel" ... that would be your business case for investing in WiFi. Definitely water tight when your opening statement was Agreed let's not clutter the forum any more! This makes no sense whatsoever to me but anyway, life really is too short! Sid the idea of providing WiFi is so customers spend money in your business rather than a competitor. The majority of customers on buses that would uses WiFi don't pay a fare ... so it would worsen TfLs finances by incurring great cost ... mobile hotspots are not cheap to operate when compared to fixed location hotspots. Do you not see it being open to abuse by non-paying customers? The people that use Uber, clearly by the fact that they have booked an Uber are not frightened to use their own data plan on a 10-15 minute journey ... so can not see the wow factor that would woo them
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Post by sid on Apr 6, 2018 14:04:31 GMT
This makes no sense whatsoever to me but anyway, life really is too short! Sid the idea of providing WiFi is so customers spend money in your business rather than a competitor. The majority of customers on buses that would uses WiFi don't pay a fare ... so it would worsen TfLs finances by incurring great cost ... mobile hotspots are not cheap to operate when compared to fixed location hotspots. Do you not see it being open to abuse by non-paying customers? The people that use Uber, clearly by the fact that they have booked an Uber are not frightened to use their own data plan on a 10-15 minute journey ... so can not see the wow factor that would woo them Yes that's a good point about free WiFi leading to an increase in non paying passengers thus making TfL finances even worse. The obvious answer as we've discussed before is to have the same criteria as the rest of the UK regarding free travel and I don't envisage too many OAP's getting on buses just for the free WiFi.
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Post by busaholic on Apr 6, 2018 20:02:15 GMT
You said that offering WiFi does not gain customers, just does not lose any. TfL have no competition offering WiFi to lose customers to. Seems you have just made the perfect argument for TfL not to invest in wifi! TfL have got plenty of competition from Uber and such like and they should be looking at ways of making bus travel more attractive. Use buses in Nottingham or Reading and the standards are light years ahead of TfL spec. I know I'm not the target audience, but if I were to vote for the ten things that would get me and others using buses in London more, WiFi would be low or non-existent on that list.
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Post by sid on Apr 6, 2018 20:07:19 GMT
TfL have got plenty of competition from Uber and such like and they should be looking at ways of making bus travel more attractive. Use buses in Nottingham or Reading and the standards are light years ahead of TfL spec. I know I'm not the target audience, but if I were to vote for the ten things that would get me and others using buses in London more, WiFi would be low or non-existent on that list. I probably wouldn't use it much myself but it is pretty much the norm nowadays.
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Post by ServerKing on Apr 6, 2018 20:18:07 GMT
TfL have got plenty of competition from Uber and such like and they should be looking at ways of making bus travel more attractive. Use buses in Nottingham or Reading and the standards are light years ahead of TfL spec. I know I'm not the target audience, but if I were to vote for the ten things that would get me and others using buses in London more, WiFi would be low or non-existent on that list. Better advertising of the bus services, even pamphlets, branding done professionally (each operator could do it rather than the insipid effort from TfL), LED blinds showing different via points (or at least blinds that work rather than the banditry of slipboards of bits of paper we have at the minute )... free WiFi is a want, not need. A better environment inside (cleaners to clean the bus after each rounder, some buses are like mobile skips, I know that's not any driver's fault... even TV advertising (I still remember TfL's My Other Car is a Bus ads from 2007 ) and for the Mayor to be a bit more visible (Boris did his bit to advertise buses, certainly the NBFL )
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Post by busaholic on Apr 6, 2018 20:36:53 GMT
I know I'm not the target audience, but if I were to vote for the ten things that would get me and others using buses in London more, WiFi would be low or non-existent on that list. Better advertising of the bus services, even pamphlets, branding done professionally (each operator could do it rather than the insipid effort from TfL), LED blinds showing different via points (or at least blinds that work rather than the banditry of slipboards of bits of paper we have at the minute )... free WiFi is a want, not need. A better environment inside (cleaners to clean the bus after each rounder, some buses are like mobile skips, I know that's not any driver's fault... even TV advertising (I still remember TfL's My Other Car is a Bus ads from 2007 ) and for the Mayor to be a bit more visible (Boris did his bit to advertise buses, certainly the NBFL ) I never thought I might say 'bring back Boris' or even 'bring back Ken' (and I still wouldn't) but Sadiq has done absolutely nothing of note or inspiration thus far into his office, though crime rather than bus travel may be the legacy for which he is remembered (in a bad way) in years to come. What's the matter with him?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 21:01:55 GMT
I'd be interested to hear what young people would want on buses. I bet WiFi would be on their list.
Nobody reads pamphlets.
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Post by galwhv69 on Apr 6, 2018 21:57:58 GMT
I'd be interested to hear what young people would want on buses. I bet WiFi would be on their list. Nobody reads pamphlets. Top 7: 1.Punctual 2.Clean 3.Enough Capacity 4.Rare Workings 5.Nice Drivers 6.Good Thrash 7.Better iBus System WiFi wasn't on my list 📶 but it would be nice but is not needed
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 6, 2018 22:36:26 GMT
I'd be interested to hear what young people would want on buses. I bet WiFi would be on their list. Nobody reads pamphlets. As I said before, many young people do have Data plans. A young person is unlikely to ditch an Uber just because of WiFi, WiFi is something that you'll use if it's there but if it's not there then it's not going to be a game changer. I've never ever heard of someone pick the tube over the bus due to the fact the stations have WiFi. As for what young people want, I'd go with this: Punctual services: Most of the time when a bus is late, the person waiting will text someone, or post on social media about how unreliable the service is. This in turn also pushes people who read the post or text away from using the service. Frequent services: Similar to above, many younger people tend to have a turn up and go attitude. I know this is completely uneconomical as frequency has to match demand however it's certainly something many young people will want. It might be a contributing factor to the decline in bus usage as well, I know when I was in Hornchurch at silly o clock after visiting a friend we just took an Uber back as the 256s evening frequency left a lot to be desired. New Stuff: Again, completely uneconomical to do to everything, but when you put something new on a service it tends to catch the attention of many young people. When the Class 345s were introduced it was countless the amount of posts I saw on my social networks about them as they made a nice change from the awful 315s and it actually attracted some young people to use the service. Even today on the way home my friend saw a Class 345 and then wouldn't stop going on about how nice it was that they were replacing the "trash" that everyone's used to seeing on the line. A lot of this is uneconomical and unrealistic, but it's what I gather from all the posts I see on social media these days. WiFi would certainly be nice, but I certainly do not see it being justified at the moment. Once bus ridership has started to show a healthy increase then it might be something that is worth considering.
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