|
Post by joefrombow on Aug 11, 2017 23:15:54 GMT
Surely the obvious compromise would have been to run alternative buses via the hospital, buses that serve the hospital on the way into Romford don't on the way out and vice versa to balance up running times. This sort of arrangement is commonplace everywhere else in the UK but not in London! Routes 5 and 5A if you like , makes perfect sense but that would be far to "unstandard" and complicated for London so they seem to think , I always thought alternate buses extending on the EL2 to Romford Station would of been a good idea with say a PVR increase of 4 or something with a 15/16 minute frequency during the day .
|
|
|
Post by john on Aug 12, 2017 9:40:03 GMT
Surely the obvious compromise would have been to run alternative buses via the hospital, buses that serve the hospital on the way into Romford don't on the way out and vice versa to balance up running times. This sort of arrangement is commonplace everywhere else in the UK but not in London! Why?? Personally, and I don't think I'm the only one thinking it, extending it from Romford Market would've been a better option. Stand space is at an absolute premium though so a complete redevelopment of the bus station would've been needed at Queens, although I'm sure I heard there are plans for that anyway. As for serving South Street....no big deal really. Doesn't get massively busy along there and stops are close enough for walking to work. The whole 5/5A scenario just seems a complete waste of time. Still say this option is stupid too BUT I can fully understand why it hasn't been extended.
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 12, 2017 10:21:28 GMT
Surely the obvious compromise would have been to run alternative buses via the hospital, buses that serve the hospital on the way into Romford don't on the way out and vice versa to balance up running times. This sort of arrangement is commonplace everywhere else in the UK but not in London! Why?? Personally, and I don't think I'm the only one thinking it, extending it from Romford Market would've been a better option. Stand space is at an absolute premium though so a complete redevelopment of the bus station would've been needed at Queens, although I'm sure I heard there are plans for that anyway. As for serving South Street....no big deal really. Doesn't get massively busy along there and stops are close enough for walking to work. The whole 5/5A scenario just seems a complete waste of time. Still say this option is stupid too BUT I can fully understand why it hasn't been extended. I think extending it from Romford Market would be a disaster. Too many times I've been caught in an 86 during the peak which has spent around half an hour just trying to get from Romford Market to London Road, subjecting the 5 to that kind of traffic would completely kill its reliability. However I do fully agree with you that not serving South Street is not a huge issue, pretty sure half the time the people that get off at Norwood Avenue and walk to Queen's is higher than the amount of people who get off along South Street anyway.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Aug 12, 2017 19:33:13 GMT
Surely the obvious compromise would have been to run alternative buses via the hospital, buses that serve the hospital on the way into Romford don't on the way out and vice versa to balance up running times. This sort of arrangement is commonplace everywhere else in the UK but not in London! Why?? Personally, and I don't think I'm the only one thinking it, extending it from Romford Market would've been a better option. Stand space is at an absolute premium though so a complete redevelopment of the bus station would've been needed at Queens, although I'm sure I heard there are plans for that anyway. As for serving South Street....no big deal really. Doesn't get massively busy along there and stops are close enough for walking to work. The whole 5/5A scenario just seems a complete waste of time. Still say this option is stupid too BUT I can fully understand why it hasn't been extended. Why not? Seems the obvious compromise to me although obviously it won't happen because it's at odds with TfL policy. Does the full service really need to go via the hospital? It's not so much about South Street just the extended journey times into town. I'd be dubious about extending it from the market to the hospital for the reasons East Londoner has mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Aug 12, 2017 23:56:14 GMT
Why?? Personally, and I don't think I'm the only one thinking it, extending it from Romford Market would've been a better option. Stand space is at an absolute premium though so a complete redevelopment of the bus station would've been needed at Queens, although I'm sure I heard there are plans for that anyway. As for serving South Street....no big deal really. Doesn't get massively busy along there and stops are close enough for walking to work. The whole 5/5A scenario just seems a complete waste of time. Still say this option is stupid too BUT I can fully understand why it hasn't been extended. Why not? Seems the obvious compromise to me although obviously it won't happen because it's at odds with TfL policy. Does the full service really need to go via the hospital? It's not so much about South Street just the extended journey times into town. I'd be dubious about extending it from the market to the hospital for the reasons East Londoner has mentioned. If it's been chosen to run via the hospital, then the whole service goes via the hospital - people in London are already confused by a simplified network and behave in a different way, rightly or wrongly, to people outside of London so why make it worse with a more complicated network where one journey goes one way and then the next goes an entirely different routing. The routing via the hospital hardly adds tons of times for journeys into town as the distance along the new routing is roughly the same as the old.
|
|
|
Post by john on Aug 13, 2017 0:16:24 GMT
Why not? Seems the obvious compromise to me although obviously it won't happen because it's at odds with TfL policy. Does the full service really need to go via the hospital? It's not so much about South Street just the extended journey times into town. I'd be dubious about extending it from the market to the hospital for the reasons East Londoner has mentioned. If it's been chosen to run via the hospital, then the whole service goes via the hospital - people in London are already confused by a simplified network and behave in a different way, rightly or wrongly, to people outside of London so why make it worse with a more complicated network where one journey goes one way and then the next goes an entirely different routing. The routing via the hospital hardly adds tons of times for journeys into town as the distance along the new routing is roughly the same as the old. Was going to say, it's only going to add about 2-3 minutes. In fact, I'll even help you out by looking at the time difference between the 248/252 and the 365 to gauge an accurate increase in the 5!! It's a minimal increase to say the least. Didn't hear any of this fuss about the 175, 365 and 499 being diverted yet the 5 does?? Romford isn't even a problem area of the route and the majority of users come from Barking at the furthest. It's ok to cut the service back though when Canning Town or East Ham goes wrong because you have the 175 alongside from Becontree Heath right?? Let's loom at the big picture and not start crying and getting carried away with 2 minutes extra running time yeah. As for the traffic around Waterloo Road, that will be down to North Street and Mawney Road getting gridlocked from 4/5pm and then stopping everything else from moving. If you think it's bad for an 86, try being a 252 in all of that!! Trust me, not fun lol
|
|
|
Post by paulsw2 on Aug 13, 2017 2:16:08 GMT
Why not? Seems the obvious compromise to me although obviously it won't happen because it's at odds with TfL policy. Does the full service really need to go via the hospital? It's not so much about South Street just the extended journey times into town. I'd be dubious about extending it from the market to the hospital for the reasons East Londoner has mentioned. If it's been chosen to run via the hospital, then the whole service goes via the hospital - people in London are already confused by a simplified network and behave in a different way, rightly or wrongly, to people outside of London so why make it worse with a more complicated network where one journey goes one way and then the next goes an entirely different routing. The routing via the hospital hardly adds tons of times for journeys into town as the distance along the new routing is roughly the same as the old. One way would be make the buses that run via the hospital have a black on yellow blind the direct buses have WOB problem solved minimal cost
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 13, 2017 19:46:36 GMT
If it's been chosen to run via the hospital, then the whole service goes via the hospital - people in London are already confused by a simplified network and behave in a different way, rightly or wrongly, to people outside of London so why make it worse with a more complicated network where one journey goes one way and then the next goes an entirely different routing. The routing via the hospital hardly adds tons of times for journeys into town as the distance along the new routing is roughly the same as the old. One way would be make the buses that run via the hospital have a black on yellow blind the direct buses have WOB problem solved minimal cost That would only be effective once the whole fleet of buses is converted to WOB displays, and even then people would probably not pay attention to any differences in colour just as they do now. But I honestly don't see the issue people have with rerouting the 5. The 248 is scheduled 5 minutes from Roneo Corner to Romford Station while the 365 is scheduled 7 minutes. It's barely a difference, it's gonna benefit far more people than it inconveniences. It's not incredibly difficult to get from South Street to Norwood Avenue or Romford Station, and the Hopper Fare does exist if someone needs to use a bus. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the 248 diverted that way in the future as well, as even though it may seem Queen's already has a tonne of routes serving it, it's a massive hospital with a lot of specialist facilities and a huge catchment area all the way from Barking out to Brentwood. Upminster also has a missing link, something which will eventually be picked up on by some local councillor. Wouldn't be surprised to see the 103 diverted that way as well to provide a link to Rainham.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Aug 13, 2017 20:28:51 GMT
But I honestly don't see the issue people have with rerouting the 5. The 248 is scheduled 5 minutes from Roneo Corner to Romford Station while the 365 is scheduled 7 minutes. It's barely a difference, it's gonna benefit far more people than it inconveniences. It's not incredibly difficult to get from South Street to Norwood Avenue or Romford Station, and the Hopper Fare does exist if someone needs to use a bus. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the 248 diverted that way in the future as well, as even though it may seem Queen's already has a tonne of routes serving it, it's a massive hospital with a lot of specialist facilities and a huge catchment area all the way from Barking out to Brentwood. Upminster also has a missing link, something which will eventually be picked up on by some local councillor. Wouldn't be surprised to see the 103 diverted that way as well to provide a link to Rainham. I have a problem with it for exactly the reasons you cite in your answer in respect of South St. The 5 has a long same stop overlap with the 175 and 128 east of Becontree Heath. With the Hopper Fare and very high frequencies for most of the day there is next to no hardship involved in changing buses. Why on earth are we spending hundreds of thousands of pounds to divert a high frequency (and therefore expensive) service when there are parts of B&D and Havering with no buses *at all*? I would be interested to see precisely what proportion of people actually reach Queens by bus. Whenever I have travelled through there or alighted / boarded the numbers of people using the buses have been in the 2s and 3s (usual warning about small sample size). I can see the reason for some level of access but every route? Really? If the Hopper ticket is a game changer for Central London then why is it not an equal game changer in somewhere like Romford which has a very decent network for somewhere so far out? It certainly would not have the same volume of service if it was 10 miles east in deregulated Essex. As I have suggested before this looks like a political payoff to me and therefore not justified in precisely the same way that all the other payoffs by Ken and Boris are also not justified (IMO, of course).
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 13, 2017 21:07:52 GMT
But I honestly don't see the issue people have with rerouting the 5. The 248 is scheduled 5 minutes from Roneo Corner to Romford Station while the 365 is scheduled 7 minutes. It's barely a difference, it's gonna benefit far more people than it inconveniences. It's not incredibly difficult to get from South Street to Norwood Avenue or Romford Station, and the Hopper Fare does exist if someone needs to use a bus. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the 248 diverted that way in the future as well, as even though it may seem Queen's already has a tonne of routes serving it, it's a massive hospital with a lot of specialist facilities and a huge catchment area all the way from Barking out to Brentwood. Upminster also has a missing link, something which will eventually be picked up on by some local councillor. Wouldn't be surprised to see the 103 diverted that way as well to provide a link to Rainham. I have a problem with it for exactly the reasons you cite in your answer in respect of South St. The 5 has a long same stop overlap with the 175 and 128 east of Becontree Heath. With the Hopper Fare and very high frequencies for most of the day there is next to no hardship involved in changing buses. Why on earth are we spending hundreds of thousands of pounds to divert a high frequency (and therefore expensive) service when there are parts of B&D and Havering with no buses *at all*? I would be interested to see precisely what proportion of people actually reach Queens by bus. Whenever I have travelled through there or alighted / boarded the numbers of people using the buses have been in the 2s and 3s (usual warning about small sample size). I can see the reason for some level of access but every route? Really? If the Hopper ticket is a game changer for Central London then why is it not an equal game changer in somewhere like Romford which has a very decent network for somewhere so far out? It certainly would not have the same volume of service if it was 10 miles east in deregulated Essex. As I have suggested before this looks like a political payoff to me and therefore not justified in precisely the same way that all the other payoffs by Ken and Boris are also not justified (IMO, of course). Fair enough, you make a decent point about the Hopper Fare which I blindly skipped over. However I have seen quite a sizeable number of people use public transport to reach the hospital, mainly because car park prices there are outrageous. I wonder how long it is until someone realises Newham Hospital has no link to Barking as that's where the other half of Barking get taken to
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Aug 13, 2017 21:56:00 GMT
I wonder how long it is until someone realises Newham Hospital has no link to Barking as that's where the other half of Barking get taken to Easily fixed by a short extension to the 376 but I suspect a frequency increase might be needed if it was extended. I once made the serious mistake of trying to get on board a 376 at Newham General when the schools had kicked out. Horrendously overloaded and people being left behind. Must have been 20 odd people waiting at the hospital for this bus.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 22:17:31 GMT
I wonder how long it is until someone realises Newham Hospital has no link to Barking as that's where the other half of Barking get taken to Easily fixed by a short extension to the 376 but I suspect a frequency increase might be needed if it was extended. I once made the serious mistake of trying to get on board a 376 at Newham General when the schools had kicked out. Horrendously overloaded and people being left behind. Must have been 20 odd people waiting at the hospital for this bus. 376 did use Double deckers for a short time when the route stared around 1999 but not sure if the route has changed since then. Could make a suggestion about swapping buses with another local GAL route but don't want to start that debate again
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Aug 13, 2017 22:59:02 GMT
I have a problem with it for exactly the reasons you cite in your answer in respect of South St. The 5 has a long same stop overlap with the 175 and 128 east of Becontree Heath. With the Hopper Fare and very high frequencies for most of the day there is next to no hardship involved in changing buses. Why on earth are we spending hundreds of thousands of pounds to divert a high frequency (and therefore expensive) service when there are parts of B&D and Havering with no buses *at all*? I would be interested to see precisely what proportion of people actually reach Queens by bus. Whenever I have travelled through there or alighted / boarded the numbers of people using the buses have been in the 2s and 3s (usual warning about small sample size). I can see the reason for some level of access but every route? Really? If the Hopper ticket is a game changer for Central London then why is it not an equal game changer in somewhere like Romford which has a very decent network for somewhere so far out? It certainly would not have the same volume of service if it was 10 miles east in deregulated Essex. As I have suggested before this looks like a political payoff to me and therefore not justified in precisely the same way that all the other payoffs by Ken and Boris are also not justified (IMO, of course). Fair enough, you make a decent point about the Hopper Fare which I blindly skipped over. However I have seen quite a sizeable number of people use public transport to reach the hospital, mainly because car park prices there are outrageous. I wonder how long it is until someone realises Newham Hospital has no link to Barking as that's where the other half of Barking get taken to I wonder how long it is before people in every borough start asking for links - I mean parts of Lambeth have no link to it's main hospital, King's College Hospital and people could look at it in this way - using my own borough as an example, Clapham, Brixton, Vauxhall, West Norwood, Tulse Hill all have a link to King's College Hospital but Streatham Hill & Streatham do not - people may turn around and say, why leave those two out when the other major areas have links to that hospital. By the way, I'm not saying everything should get a link but just using an argument some might make
|
|