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Post by TA1 on Aug 10, 2016 8:26:20 GMT
Abellio have won the franchise, including 1,040 new vehicles, with 660 from Bombardier: www.gov.uk/government/news/b...hise-announcedMass replacement of stock across WA & GE, after our 317's leave towards the end of the year I expect for them to be sent to the scrap yard despite GA's units being In a better operational condition. Spells the end of LCHS to NRW. I'll have a more in depth read later on, I did half want first to make a return but that maybe for South West Trains as I tease my missus, beside can't be worse than working for GTR. |
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Post by T.R. on Aug 10, 2016 8:44:57 GMT
It looks like a complete fleet replacement by 2020 (Including Stansted Express). I suppose there's not much point in refurbishing the dusty bins (321s) anymore?
Lots of service increases including the reintroduction of some London-Lowestoft trains
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Post by snoggle on Aug 10, 2016 9:28:19 GMT
Given the delay to the announcement it was impossible for anyone other than Abellio to take over. I dare say they will be pleased to have retained this franchise having been on a temporary short franchise for so long. Seems the rolling stock is coming from Bombardier and Stadler.
The service levels seem quite ambitious in some places and I'm left wondering if they are actually feasible given the levels of freight workings on several routes in East Anglia. I'm also disappointed that the announcements don't make it clear if there will be a consistent 4 tph overall between Angel Road and Stratford - combining existing stopping services with the new 2 tph STAR service which is confirmed. Getting a crappy, gap ridden peak time service because there are too many trains whizzing to Stansted and Cambridge is no good to anyone who will need to rely on the service in future.
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Post by snowman on Aug 10, 2016 10:19:15 GMT
It looks like a complete fleet replacement by 2020 (Including Stansted Express). I suppose there's not much point in refurbishing the dusty bins (321s) anymore? Lots of service increases including the reintroduction of some London-Lowestoft trains There was an article in Modern Railways on this. Whilst the loco hauled fleet was obvious candidate for express EMU. There was question of if replacing the 317s and 321s made sence, and basically it does if you avoid major work. New modern fleet is better ambience, more efficient etc. My gut feeling is the displaced trains will be used short term to restart the South Wales electrifications that have run into funding problems. Therefore allowing train fleet to be deferred about 5 years after the infrastructure. There is a similar argument for replacing the 455, 456, 159 fleets in the SWT new franchise. |
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Post by snowman on Aug 10, 2016 11:05:27 GMT
Has been confirmed that 660 coaches will be built at Derby. They will be a version of the aventura (which is type being built for crossrail), but will have more seats.
The other 383 will be built by Swiss firm Stadler
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Post by T.R. on Aug 10, 2016 11:08:15 GMT
Nice to see Stadler 'flirting' with the UK rolling stock market  |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 10, 2016 15:36:54 GMT
Breakdown of the new fleet orders for East Anglia courtesy of Railway Gazette. Looks an interesting mix of trains.  |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Aug 10, 2016 15:44:31 GMT
...so not selling their London bus operations any time soon?
In all seriousness, well done Abellio- East Anglia isn't the easiest of franchises to operate and some of the issues they've had haven't been their fault (lack of DMUs caused by collisions, poor overhead line infrastructure etc.) I was a fairly regular user of NXEA and AGA and the latter certainly made some improvements, despite what some Twitter accounts might have you believe
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Post by snoggle on Aug 10, 2016 16:22:02 GMT
...so not selling their London bus operations any time soon? In all seriousness, well done Abellio- East Anglia isn't the easiest of franchises to operate and some of the issues they've had haven't been their fault (lack of DMUs caused by collisions, poor overhead line infrastructure etc.) I was a fairly regular user of NXEA and AGA and the latter certainly made some improvements, despite what some Twitter accounts might have you believe And yet the head of the Essex Rail Users group is already complaining that the new trains are not turning up next week.   Some people are never satisfied. To get a full fleet replacement on a franchise of this size is quite a feat and passengers should really be cheering from the rooftops not moaning like hell. The existing fleet is even going to be refurbished between now and 2019 which strikes me as a bit unnecessary - apart from on the very worst stock. Even the refurbs of the Mark 3s on the Norwich service are only going to see about 5 years use in total which is pretty short. I suspect Chiltern might on the look out to grab some of those carriages when they become spare. I've not used Abellio's services very much so can't comment very objectively. They do seem to try although two short term franchises have been very limiting whereas the new one lasts 9 years. It seems there will be a hefty rise in premium payments (£3.7bn over 9 years) to the government so they must be hoping that the new trains and extra services are going to pull in a lot of extra passengers especially off peak. |
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Post by snowman on Aug 10, 2016 17:17:22 GMT
Having looked at the table of types on Railway Gazette webpage it's clear the new coaches are about 23m as 10 car trains replace 12 car ones. This suggests the Siemens 360s are going back to lease for use elsewhere.
Not the first time there was been express EMUs, anyone remember the class 309 Clacton sets with griddle cars. I think they had the massive cast commonwealth bogies to improve ride.
Looks like Stadler has the Stanstead and Norwich express fleet, plus diesel electric trains for non electrified bits, it's not clear if these are dual system so can run electric where available. Would be logical for through services to Lowestoft etc.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 10, 2016 17:36:03 GMT
Having looked at the table of types on Railway Gazette webpage it's clear the new coaches are about 23m as 10 car trains replace 12 car ones. This suggests the Siemens 360s are going back to lease for use elsewhere. Not the first time there was been express EMUs, anyone remember the class 309 Clacton sets with griddle cars. I think they had the massive cast commonwealth bogies to improve ride. Looks like Stadler has the Stanstead and Norwich express fleet, plus diesel electric trains for non electrified bits, it's not clear if these are dual system so can run electric where available. Would be logical for through services to Lowestoft etc. They are described as "bi-mode" elsewhere so I believe they will run on electric wherever they sensibly can. That would fit in with the DfT's wider philosophy as seen with FGW and East Coast. Running under the wires "on the juice" would also bring more consistent travel times thus maximising track and signal capacity. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Aug 10, 2016 17:40:12 GMT
...so not selling their London bus operations any time soon? In all seriousness, well done Abellio- East Anglia isn't the easiest of franchises to operate and some of the issues they've had haven't been their fault (lack of DMUs caused by collisions, poor overhead line infrastructure etc.) I was a fairly regular user of NXEA and AGA and the latter certainly made some improvements, despite what some Twitter accounts might have you believe And yet the head of the Essex Rail Users group is already complaining that the new trains are not turning up next week. Some people are never satisfied. To get a full fleet replacement on a franchise of this size is quite a feat and passengers should really be cheering from the rooftops not moaning like hell. The existing fleet is even going to be refurbished between now and 2019 which strikes me as a bit unnecessary - apart from on the very worst stock. Even the refurbs of the Mark 3s on the Norwich service are only going to see about 5 years use in total which is pretty short. I suspect Chiltern might on the look out to grab some of those carriages when they become spare. I've not used Abellio's services very much so can't comment very objectively. They do seem to try although two short term franchises have been very limiting whereas the new one lasts 9 years. It seems there will be a hefty rise in premium payments (£3.7bn over 9 years) to the government so they must be hoping that the new trains and extra services are going to pull in a lot of extra passengers especially off peak. Abellio could give every commuter £500 and those with twitter accounts hell bent on complaining will moan that it's not £550. AGA (and c2c customers) should count themselves lucky that they don't have to rely on TSGN to get them home. As you know, I work for a railway that constantly achieves 99.5 to 100% reliability on a daily basis, but soon as something beyond the operator control happend (for example a one-under) and that 99.9% railway becomes "the worst railway in the world ever that always ruins my day" |
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Post by thesquirrels on Aug 10, 2016 23:48:19 GMT
Slightly surprised to see wholesale stock replacement on a franchise operating relatively modern stock, but said stock will be ~30 years old by the time it is replaced. I'm sure the better 317s and 321s will find a stay of execution in Northernland as more knitting goes up there.. pleased nonetheless. Now that the suburban ops have been moved over to TfL the operation 'in the round' looks a bit better, I wish them well in implementing the changes they're planning to deliver. Those premiums are steep though - one to keep an eye on.
Essex commuters are the most unforgiving bunch of the lot. Whinging is in their DNA, it borders on the pathological. It is less to do with the infrastructure as the psychology of the user base IMO (though the former needs work, no question).
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Post by snowman on Aug 11, 2016 5:36:57 GMT
Having looked at the table of types on Railway Gazette webpage it's clear the new coaches are about 23m as 10 car trains replace 12 car ones. This suggests the Siemens 360s are going back to lease for use elsewhere. Not the first time there was been express EMUs, anyone remember the class 309 Clacton sets with griddle cars. I think they had the massive cast commonwealth bogies to improve ride. Looks like Stadler has the Stanstead and Norwich express fleet, plus diesel electric trains for non electrified bits, it's not clear if these are dual system so can run electric where available. Would be logical for through services to Lowestoft etc. I think my comments were a bit hasty yesterday as a normal flirt is an articulated unit, not seperate carriages. There is already a small body version, for Swiss metre gauge lines, which must be similar to UK loading gauge, but maybe they will builtd a UK gauge version. It appears that flirts can have a variety of top speeds upto 200km/h (124mph). Hopefully Stadler will release technical details soon. Obviously as the rail minister made the announcement at Derby, most of the initial comments were about the nearly £1bn Aventura order. Only later did it become obvious the Derby trains are £1.5m per carriage, but the Swiss ones £1.1m per carriage. |
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Post by wivenswold on Aug 11, 2016 7:00:48 GMT
I've been a critic of AGA, I'm an Essex commuter and a huge fan of nationisation.
But I'm delighted. Some of the real gains have not been picked up on. For example, a lot of off peaks will be 10 car instead of 8. 42 full length trains verses 26 scheduled now (and that includes the 9-car Norwich trains). Aircon throughout, free Wifi, 3 tph to Norwich, dedicated long distance EMUs for Essex lines (I remember the 309s too).
I could scream at some of my fellow commuters.
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Some people are never satisfied. To get a full fleet replacement on a franchise of this size is quite a feat and passengers should really be cheering from the rooftops not moaning like hell. The existing fleet is even going to be refurbished between now and 2019 which strikes me as a bit unnecessary - apart from on the very worst stock. Even the refurbs of the Mark 3s on the Norwich service are only going to see about 5 years use in total which is pretty short. I suspect Chiltern might on the look out to grab some of those carriages when they become spare.
