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Post by cc2005 on Sept 19, 2016 11:04:51 GMT
Are ADL going to continue producing Hybrid E200's (e.g. the HDE's at RATP) now that an all-electric E200 is available (e.g. the SEe's at GAL)?
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Post by snowman on Sept 19, 2016 13:29:09 GMT
Are ADL going to continue producing Hybrid E200's (e.g. the HDE's at RATP) now that an all-electric E200 is available (e.g. the SEe's at GAL)? Good question, I suspect they are just sitting in the line up for completeness. The brochure is very out of date and no-one seems to order them so probably be quietly dropped. The E350H sold a few, but not the smaller E200H in recent years They have just launched a 10.8m version of the ADL-BYD electric and announced other lengths will follow, so looks like this is expected to be the future, not a small hybrid. The five HDEs were ordered in 2008, and were delivered Spring 2009, ahead of 371 contract change. None have yet been refurbished and one hasn't been used for 5 months. Will be interesting to see if when they get done, they change from existing euroIV.
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Post by BusesInLondon on Sept 19, 2016 14:41:10 GMT
Are ADL going to continue producing Hybrid E200's (e.g. the HDE's at RATP) now that an all-electric E200 is available (e.g. the SEe's at GAL)? Good question, I suspect they are just sitting in the line up for completeness. The brochure is very out of date and no-one seems to order them so probably be quietly dropped. The E350H sold a few, but not the smaller E200H in recent years They have just launched a 10.8m version of the ADL-BYD electric and announced other lengths will follow, so looks like this is expected to be the future, not a small hybrid. The five HDEs were ordered in 2008, and were delivered Spring 2009, ahead of 371 contract change. None have yet been refurbished and one hasn't been used for 5 months. Will be interesting to see if when they get done, they change from existing euroIV. As some of the new E200MMCs have start-stop, I dont think ADl would male single decked hybrids
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Post by vjaska on Sept 19, 2016 16:27:18 GMT
Good question, I suspect they are just sitting in the line up for completeness. The brochure is very out of date and no-one seems to order them so probably be quietly dropped. The E350H sold a few, but not the smaller E200H in recent years They have just launched a 10.8m version of the ADL-BYD electric and announced other lengths will follow, so looks like this is expected to be the future, not a small hybrid. The five HDEs were ordered in 2008, and were delivered Spring 2009, ahead of 371 contract change. None have yet been refurbished and one hasn't been used for 5 months. Will be interesting to see if when they get done, they change from existing euroIV. As some of the new E200MMCs have start-stop, I dont think ADl would male single decked hybrids Hybrid double deckers have start stop technology ever since 2442 was delivered with it as a testbed so I can't see why they wouldn't make any hybrids based on that point. Also, which MMC's have start stop technology?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 19, 2016 16:33:52 GMT
As some of the new E200MMCs have start-stop, I dont think ADl would male single decked hybrids Hybrid double deckers have start stop technology ever since 2442 was delivered with it as a testbed so I can't see why they wouldn't make any hybrids based on that point. Also, which MMC's have start stop technology? Route 487s U2/U3s buses and route 265s buses have them
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Post by paulo on Sept 19, 2016 17:09:35 GMT
Are ADL going to continue producing Hybrid E200's (e.g. the HDE's at RATP) now that an all-electric E200 is available (e.g. the SEe's at GAL)? Good question, I suspect they are just sitting in the line up for completeness. The brochure is very out of date and no-one seems to order them so probably be quietly dropped. The E350H sold a few, but not the smaller E200H in recent years They have just launched a 10.8m version of the ADL-BYD electric and announced other lengths will follow, so looks like this is expected to be the future, not a small hybrid. The five HDEs were ordered in 2008, and were delivered Spring 2009, ahead of 371 contract change. None have yet been refurbished and one hasn't been used for 5 months. Will be interesting to see if when they get done, they change from existing euroIV. One of them was towed away from Fulwell on a sovereign truck last week Not sure which one, but 3 have been out of service for a while now.
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Post by allentc on Sept 20, 2016 9:50:40 GMT
I think it would make sense to keep a hybrid form of the E200 to complete the product line.
The fully-diesel E200 will cater to the traditionalists and in particular the smaller rural operators who don't have the experience, know-how, confidence, emission restrictions or funds to try a fully electric bus.
The fully electric E200/BYD bus is only suitable for relatively short routes and crucially requires significant investment for the installation of charging facilities. Because of the cost and relative unknown quantity these buses will only appeal to large, wealthier city based operators until the technology matures.
The hybrid offers the best of both worlds. The operators who want to "dip their toes" into the latest propulsion systems may chose to try a hybrid instead of a fully diesel E200. It doesn't require the infrastructure investment whilst generating good local PR ticking the "green" box.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Sept 20, 2016 18:54:32 GMT
I think it would make sense to keep a hybrid form of the E200 to complete the product line. The fully-diesel E200 will cater to the traditionalists and in particular the smaller rural operators who don't have the experience, know-how, confidence, emission restrictions or funds to try a fully electric bus. The fully electric E200/BYD bus is only suitable for relatively short routes and crucially requires significant investment for the installation of charging facilities. Because of the cost and relative unknown quantity these buses will only appeal to large, wealthier city based operators until the technology matures. The hybrid offers the best of both worlds. The operators who want to "dip their toes" into the latest propulsion systems may chose to try a hybrid instead of a fully diesel E200. It doesn't require the infrastructure investment whilst generating good local PR ticking the "green" box. I think the future for single deck hybrids is Micro hybrids like the Streetlite or flywheel fitted E200s rather than full hybridd
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Post by snoggle on Sept 20, 2016 20:06:05 GMT
I think the future for single deck hybrids is Micro hybrids like the Streetlite or flywheel fitted E200s rather than full hybridd I agree. If there had been *any* appetite for full hybrid single deckers there would be lots of them in London and manufacturers would be competing to build them. There is clearly no such market nor has TfL been keen to push for one. I wonder if it is simple economics - the extra kit and cost is justified when carrying 90 people on a double decker but it doesn't make sense carrying 55 on a single deck.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Sept 21, 2016 9:37:09 GMT
I think the future for single deck hybrids is Micro hybrids like the Streetlite or flywheel fitted E200s rather than full hybridd I agree. If there had been *any* appetite for full hybrid single deckers there would be lots of them in London and manufacturers would be competing to build them. There is clearly no such market nor has TfL been keen to push for one. I wonder if it is simple economics - the extra kit and cost is justified when carrying 90 people on a double decker but it doesn't make sense carrying 55 on a single deck. completely agree, I think the way technology is moving now we'll see more fully electric buses of all sizes- particularly with roadside charging technology
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Post by snowman on Sept 21, 2016 10:16:26 GMT
I agree. If there had been *any* appetite for full hybrid single deckers there would be lots of them in London and manufacturers would be competing to build them. There is clearly no such market nor has TfL been keen to push for one. I wonder if it is simple economics - the extra kit and cost is justified when carrying 90 people on a double decker but it doesn't make sense carrying 55 on a single deck. completely agree, I think the way technology is moving now we'll see more fully electric buses of all sizes- particularly with roadside charging technology Totally agree. With introduction of start/stop and the mini energy recovery the complete hybrid makes no sence as it adds £100k to a £120k-150k bus. The extra initial cost might take 20 years to recover through fuel savings so over whole life costs more. My own hunch is electric or diesel, not both, is what choice will soon be. The actual choice will depend on air quality requirements on route being served.
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Post by john on Sept 22, 2016 10:39:20 GMT
I agree. If there had been *any* appetite for full hybrid single deckers there would be lots of them in London and manufacturers would be competing to build them. There is clearly no such market nor has TfL been keen to push for one. I wonder if it is simple economics - the extra kit and cost is justified when carrying 90 people on a double decker but it doesn't make sense carrying 55 on a single deck. completely agree, I think the way technology is moving now we'll see more fully electric buses of all sizes- particularly with roadside charging technology I disagree. If we're starting to move towards electric then this can only be the start of something even bigger. I've said it for a while and still agree, once a safe solution can be found to the storage situation, I think hydrogen will be the next fuel source
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 13:21:34 GMT
completely agree, I think the way technology is moving now we'll see more fully electric buses of all sizes- particularly with roadside charging technology I disagree. If we're starting to move towards electric then this can only be the start of something even bigger. I've said it for a while and still agree, once a safe solution can be found to the storage situation, I think hydrogen will be the next fuel source Can't see hydrogen taking off unfortunately, aside the safety aspect they cost far too much to produce. Just one of those things on the RV1 costs £1.1million.
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Post by john on Sept 22, 2016 13:30:51 GMT
I disagree. If we're starting to move towards electric then this can only be the start of something even bigger. I've said it for a while and still agree, once a safe solution can be found to the storage situation, I think hydrogen will be the next fuel source Can't see hydrogen taking off unfortunately, aside the safety aspect they cost far too much to produce. Just one of those things on the RV1 costs £1.1million. Why is that?? Because it isn't mass produced. It's a niche market where costs will always be higher. If the car industry was to start producing, on a large scale, hydrogen vehicles, then the cost of production would start to come down. Don't forget hybrid vehicles were quite expensive when first introduced. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the base cost dropped quite significantly since?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 14:23:00 GMT
Can't see hydrogen taking off unfortunately, aside the safety aspect they cost far too much to produce. Just one of those things on the RV1 costs £1.1million. Why is that?? Because it isn't mass produced. It's a niche market where costs will always be higher. If the car industry was to start producing, on a large scale, hydrogen vehicles, then the cost of production would start to come down. Don't forget hybrid vehicles were quite expensive when first introduced. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the base cost dropped quite significantly since? One of the reason as to why Hydrogens are expensive is becaus they are indeed not mass produced however I can't imagine them going into mass production anyway and then being justified by an order from an operator by any means. I imagine a bulk order by tfl is what is needed or a governing body/similar organisation would be the only way of achieving this. Seems there is too much money in the research and development stage and for all the years of testing hasn't reached the levels the conventional hybrid did. I think too much money has to be thrown in very quickly for a very slow and not so definite return.
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