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Post by danorak on Nov 25, 2016 9:52:57 GMT
consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/west-end-bus-changes/I won't spoil everyone's fun but the change to the 23 sent my eyebrows upwards. And I have immediately spotted one mistake (the 452 extension to Vauxhall is missing on at least one map). I do wonder how much of the 452 change is actually connected to the complaints about too many buses from the Kensal Rise lobby. A couple of these changes are clearly in preparation for Crossrail (eg 172) but it would have been helpful to know what others are in the pipeline.
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Post by snowman on Nov 25, 2016 10:20:14 GMT
There also appears to be a lot of fixing where historic routings don't reflect current demand
E.g. 73 cut Oxford Circus - Victoria, but 390 sent to Victoria instead of Notting Hill
There are changes that are not Central London such as 425 between Stratford and Ilford so 25 frequency can be cut on underused section via Bow
Reading the document indicates some serious 20+% falls in usage over last 5 years, Sat and Sunday are separate from mon-Fri and some falls over 30% are listed (242 usage has fallen 60% at weekends)
It is also clear that 3 hours is deemed the maximum for a round trip for reliability as some alternatives were discounted because of exceeding this
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Post by danorak on Nov 25, 2016 10:35:14 GMT
One thing that stands out from the more detailed review document (which I know snoggle will be delighted to see) is the devastating effect of highways work and congestion on demand. It's a shame that the answer to that appears to be 'cut' rather than a renewed commitment to bus priority.
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Post by sid on Nov 25, 2016 10:45:39 GMT
I've just had a quick flick through it and yes the 23 proposal is a bit of a suprise, presumably this means the 7 won't be axed as had been rumoured? The 3 and 6 proposals sound quite positive but the N2 is just standardisation for the sake of it and quite ridiculous if the 82 is going to become 24 hour! I think the 137 should be rerouted to Baker Street or Portman Square, the Marble Arch/Park Lane stop is ridiculously overcrowded as it is. I suggested doing just that with the 22 a while back although the reduced levels of service to Victoria are concerning, the 36/436 reductions, the 390 is less frequent than the 73 and the C2 is removed from Victoria completely !
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 25, 2016 10:57:44 GMT
They mention the Hopper but some of these journey's take more than an hour from there first bus stop so some commuters will be paying twice
Judging from this it seems to me the 22, 73 just replace the 3, 8 & 137 from the Oxford Circus Stands.
The 73 & 390 proposal actually makes sense. It was only extended to Notting Hill Gate to replace the 12.
The 3 & 172 proposals I quite like them.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Nov 25, 2016 11:14:37 GMT
Little TL;DR summaries for you folks, plus my views 3/N3 - normal line of route till Trafalgar Square, then routed to Russel Sq (via 91 I presume) Err okay, also looks TfL's obsession with Russel Sq prevails137 - cut to Marble Arch Walk, walk, y'all! I wish they extended it to Streatham Station in return, one can only dream of not having that walk… xDN137 - no changes. Goodie good!6 - starts at Aldwych as normal, then to go through Park Lane and Piccadilly instead of Regent St and Oxford Street Hopefully 7 and 98 can cope xD Oh and 7 looks intact by the look of this, hell yes!15 - never to reach Regent St again. Trafalgar Square turn made permanent 😂 Not surprised at all there.N15 - oddly enough, TfL think it won't be subject to as much congestion and want it to run as far as Oxford Circus 😱 This could help, but imagine how rammed it'll get servin' all these places… I dunno how they plan to fit people waiting at Trafalgar Sq and after with possible OC loadings xD8 - perma cut to TCR, like we didn't see it coming 😂 However routing at the terminus will change a little and it'll take 242's stand and initial path Again, no surprise. Then it's a pity, as 8 ain't even that longN8 - no changes. Yay good ^v^242 - just as in the previously released proposal, cut to St Paul's, routed to terminate outside station LOL 242 made even shorter, might as well expand from Homerton Hospital then?172 - no longer to reach St Paul's, routed to serve the Fleet Street after the Strand, and to terminate at 'Clerkenwell for Farringdon Station' If they think this'll be of some use… Big advantage though is avoiding the horrid congestion St Paul's had during the day and improving reliability C2 - cut to Conduit Street (Picadilly Circus) only 😂😂 Takes 3's current stand. Lol another Oxford Street route barred from reaching Victoria, TfL just hate that routing don't they (ex 8 and 25 too!). However, this deems the route rather short. I don't like it and think C2 should stay intact.22/N22 - rerouted from Green Park to serve Conduit St and Oxford Circus O.o That one I didn't see coming. However it's unfair for TfL to brand this as a replacement of the links lost via C2's cut.23 - the Liverpool Street - Aldwych cut applies, THEN east of Paddington, routed via Lancaster Gate, then from Ladbroke Grove it's led via Willesden Junction, to fricken Wembley! O.o Errrr mixed feelings here, this is gonna be rather 'fun'. Made an entire different route eh? Looks something out of a 'make the most congestion-filled routing for a bus' competition, though. Aldwych, Oxford Street, Ladbroke Grove and Wembley, Jesus😂 Why don't they just create a whole new route though?? 13 is about to get freed up (hopefully, the 82/13 renumber is totally unnecessary), would've been perfect. No need to overcomplicate. 46 - cut to Paddington and no longer reaching Lancaster Gate. 332 to fill the gap. So there you have your Crossrail 46 change. Nothing as big as anticipated 332 - rerouted via Kilburn Park Road, Warwick Avenue, then to take 46's routing to Lancaster Gate. TfL says they don't want it to do that huge loop it currently does at Paddington. The reroute will confuse without a doubt, although the extension will definitely help there.452 - withdrawn between Ladbroke Grove and Kensal Rise, routed instead to Harrow Road, next to Westbourne Park. Vauxhall end remains. Lol enjoy the extension as long as you can, 452 😂 Looks it's there to fill some holes after the 23 restructure.25 - no changes other than made every 6mins and the Mile End shorts cut, in order for.... (Sorry to interrupt - but yay at least for not making any cuts to the line of route, expected TCR at least, but no! 425 - extended from Stratford to Ilford LMAO 😂 Made to be every 10mins. I see TfL's desperately trying to axe its sideman status, as currently even 308 is more used Good luck with the traffic though. Manor Park made sense, but Ilford??? TfL u ok73/N73 - cut to Oxford Circus. Tfl thinks Victoria line can fill the void… Ugh, N73 too? Friendly reminder to TfL that night tube doesn't run on weekdays Annoying to force people to tube it or wait for the 390N (look at the next part)390 - rerouted to Victoria from Marble Arch to replace the withdrawn 73 bit Perhaps made more relevant, but no longer the carnival bus, RIP 148 and 94 2k17 N2 - what's already been confirmed, routed to Marylebone via daytime 2 No need to put that up for consultation if it's already been granted, or?? Like the idea, always thought this should've gone this way. Well EDIT: Added spoiler if you want to read them yourself anyway on the official docs. EDIT2: Made some fixes, added N137 which I accidentally omitted, and emphasised that 452 is still there to serve Vauxhall.
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Post by danorak on Nov 25, 2016 11:29:46 GMT
Little TL;DR summaries for you folks, plus my views <snipped for length> What I would add is that we need to remember this is only part of the story. We still have the main Crossrail changes to come plus the changes needed to pedestrianise Oxford Street. This consultation only reduces the service. So the 7 is still likely to disappear in its current form, the 25 is still likely to be lost west of TCR and so on. This is only preparing the ground for what's to come.
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Post by M1104 on Nov 25, 2016 11:41:26 GMT
I very much like the 3 proposal as it would give a bit more distinction from the 159 by going more parrallel into untapped parts of the West End from south west London. The main loss is Piccadilly, but not a million steps away from Leicester Square. The N3 will somewhat re-establish a night link between Brixton and Tottenham Court Road, a link lost when the N35 became 35. I imagine the 159 will get that bit more punters now that it no longer has the 3 with it at Piccadilly Circus....nor the 137 from Oxford Circus 'all the way' to Streatham. Seems destined to be the only south London bus route to go along a good stretch of Oxford Street.
Love the 22 proposal as well, linking Regent Street with a different part of the south west London corner. The C2 will revert to how it was before the extention, which may make it that bit harder for Abellio to retain next round. Will be interesting to see how the extra buses from route are utilised, unless they are leased.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 25, 2016 11:46:47 GMT
I guess the 22 will take the stand the 137 curebtly uses but I'd have thrown in the 159 cut to Oxo to further reduce Oxford Street routes (it's going to have to happen) and rerouting the 113 and 139 via Marylebone road again to reduce services. Also with the 3 running up Charing Cross Road could there not be a reduction to other routes (namely the 176) as surely Charing X road will become slightly over bussed.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Nov 25, 2016 11:48:33 GMT
Little TL;DR summaries for you folks, plus my views <snipped for length> What I would add is that we need to remember this is only part of the story. We still have the main Crossrail changes to come plus the changes needed to pedestrianise Oxford Street. This consultation only reduces the service. So the 7 is still likely to disappear in its current form, the 25 is still likely to be lost west of TCR and so on. This is only preparing the ground for what's to come. Don't know, but the 23 proposal seems very Crossrailish to me… And I don't know if TfL would say "use 7/98" for replacement if they were to withdraw it.
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Post by Unorm on Nov 25, 2016 11:54:16 GMT
Now that's an interesting meddling with all the Oxford Street related routes. 3/N3 to Russell Square is interesting, giving new links from Milbank and going further in Central London from areas like Crystal Palace. 425 going Ilford (seems my idea some time ago had an answer ) is an interesting choice but nevertheless some sort of relief for 25, IIRC 25 was to be split in two when Crossrail comes? Probably would've been a good idea if 172 as a lot of people speculated, for it to be extended while rerouted but oh well. Interesting move to swap 22/N22 for C2 meanwhile. 23 gets the shove out of Central London, never expected TfL would lash it out, even for a well known route 452 going back to Wandsworth Road despite the efforts of it being extended and took a long time of planning ? Now that I think of it, what would replace the possible demand 390 relieves off 94/148 as 23/332 come down from Paddington? Otherwise, pretty interesting consultation. So far I noticed one of 332's maps say 322 instead of 332
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Post by Nathan on Nov 25, 2016 12:10:45 GMT
What on earth were they on when they made these consultations!? There are some good ideas here...but a lot of them are ridiculous. - The 172 already gets screwed over by traffic outside City Thameslink during the peaks. Traffic is far worse along Farringdon Street since the cycle highway was put in place. It's not surprise that the route will be even more unreliable if re-routed. With all that said, the enthusiast in me would love to see changes occur with my local route - 23 Lancaster Gate-Wembley? This makes a bit more sense. I imagine there may be some demand for a link like the one proposed. - The 25/425 again makes a lot of sense. This has been an extension needed for the longest time now. - I never really understood why the N2 never went to Marylebone. It should have been like this from the get-go..
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 25, 2016 12:11:14 GMT
NB4Ls from the 137 cut could be used on the 3.
With the 23 being the route crossrail is killing it seems the 7 is safe now thou will eventually need to be cut to marble Arch.
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Post by sid on Nov 25, 2016 12:11:25 GMT
452 going back to Wandsworth Road despite the efforts of it being extended and took a long time of planning ? Clearly somebody didn't know about the 452 extension to Vauxhall
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Post by sid on Nov 25, 2016 12:15:22 GMT
I never really understood why the N2 never went to Marylebone. It should have been like this from the get-go.. The 82 will also cover that section which is pretty dead at night anyway.
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