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Post by sid on Dec 1, 2016 11:12:31 GMT
It's all a lot of hot cold air if I am honest... unless TfL has signed a deal with Air Products / BOC etc to go and fit these very expensive hydrogen filling facilities in selected bus garages, there's no way in hell operators will willingly shell out just to keep London work. They will "do a Firstgroup" and leave the London scene. It's already tough, a particular spec, a certain blind spec you can't use anywhere else, working to deadlines as tight as Bruce Jenner's pencil skirt... as much as it's a nice idea on paper or when you're posing with the prototype, is it in the Job Spec as London Mayor you must have your own White Elephant project? BoJo gave us the LT's which have no opening windows and pollute more, cycle lanes no one uses, Ken Livingstone before him filled the streets with bendy buses where fares were down to conscience... So is this to get rid of the LTs or will everyone have to go electric or hybrid in London, such as couriers and everyone else? What do I do when my battery dies due to congestion? Can a conventional diesel AA truck come rescue me or will I get fined for that too? Sad to say people are abandoning the bus due to clogged streets and stupid 20 zones. Sort that out first rather than gimmicks. Try driving through Moorgate / Elephant and Castle / Euston Road / Southall Broadway and tell me that's okay Give us free WiFi and let operators have more incentives like Sapphire or Stagecoach Gold to bring passengers back. It seems even the interiors are under threat now and you have the increasingly common TfL spec (I think the new 217s will have this). I miss the days of variety in liveries (Stagecoach and Metroline were my favourites ), I think TfL need to do a basic City & Guilds course in Marketing at the local college as they haven't figured it out compared to everywhere else *rant over* Surely it will be TfL and not the operators footing the bill for hydrogen facilities? Personally I think all interiors should be to 'TfL spec', if you want variety then a deregulated environment is the place to find it? I agree about WiFi etc and Gold/Sapphire standards but that has to come from TfL, the X26 new contract would have been a good place to start.
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Post by rmz19 on Dec 1, 2016 15:35:33 GMT
I'm not at all fussed with extras or luxuries, regardless of whether other cities have them in their buses or not. Buses in London can be as 'basic' as they can get as long as London is once back to having a bit more variety regarding bus types i.e. experimenting with different chassis, more bodies and retaining their various interior liveries which reflect different operators. Wright's new Hydrogen DD looks promising as not only is it environmentally friendly, but hopefully this would mean seeing more 'normal' body Gemini 3s like the StreetDecks at GR if they are mass-produced, I suppose I will be criticised for being shallow
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Post by 700101 on Dec 1, 2016 17:22:52 GMT
I'm sure I saw this bus on the back of a Lorry passing through New Cross/Deptford High Street around 2330 last night. It also had H2 on the front and back blinds
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Post by snoggle on Dec 1, 2016 18:01:28 GMT
Given TfL spec has always been cheap and cheerful, I fail to understand why your expecting glass pillars? TfL do not run a commercial network - there is always demand for services so obviously, no need to start 'pimping' the spec up with stuff like wooden floors, tables, glass pillars, etc. Nah, not asking for that much, it's just this blasted thing is so in your face, unbelievable they let Wrigthbus get away with it on a commercial product; front seats upstairs of a decker were always meant to be 'luxury' regardless of what town/city the bus belongs to :/ I just can't stand that pillar thing and don't understand why more of those buses are coming to ruin the day for many of us, who still appreciate upper deck views 🙄 This view is just ridiculous man! I like the upstairs view but I never ever sit in the front seat. Usually the legroom is far too restricted and then you inevitably get mewling or over excited kids jumping up and down like a Zebedee on speed. BOING BOING BOING. I've actually not been on a "frog face" Gemini 3 as you so eloquently describe them. I have been on the related but older "mobile phone" versions on the 34 and I think they're OK. The only oddity I've found was when I sat at the back downstairs and one set of seats has a very low headroom - worse than the rear of a NB4L and that's saying something. OK that front pillar isn't ideal but TfL won't fund more expensive vehicles in and of themselves unless forced by Mayoral policies (NB4L, early hybrids, hydrogen and now all electrics). On the rare occasions that TfL pays any attention to interiors it gets things all wrong. There are perfectly decent seats further back on a DD top deck with nice views perfectly achieveable.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 1, 2016 18:07:52 GMT
Nah, not asking for that much, it's just this blasted thing is so in your face, unbelievable they let Wrigthbus get away with it on a commercial product; front seats upstairs of a decker were always meant to be 'luxury' regardless of what town/city the bus belongs to :/ I just can't stand that pillar thing and don't understand why more of those buses are coming to ruin the day for many of us, who still appreciate upper deck views 🙄 This view is just ridiculous man! I like the upstairs view but I never ever sit in the front seat. Usually the legroom is far too restricted and then you inevitably get mewling or over excited kids jumping up and down like a Zebedee on speed. BOING BOING BOING. I've actually not been on a "frog face" Gemini 3 as you so eloquently describe them. I have been on the related but older "mobile phone" versions on the 34 and I think they're OK. The only oddity I've found was when I sat at the back downstairs and one set of seats has a very low headroom - worse than the rear of a NB4L and that's saying something. OK that front pillar isn't ideal but TfL won't fund more expensive vehicles in and of themselves unless forced by Mayoral policies (NB4L, early hybrids, hydrogen and now all electrics). On the rare occasions that TfL pays any attention to interiors it gets things all wrong. There are perfectly decent seats further back on a DD top deck with nice views perfectly achievablee. Completely agree with that. Not to mention half the people don't care if they get a front seat on a bus anyway. As long as they manage to get on, on some routes you'll be lucky to get any sort of seat. The Pillar on a Gemini 3 isn't even that bad if I'm being honest, it does slightly obstruct your view but if you were so desperate for the view you can sit in the aisle seat where the pillar doesn't obstruct your view.
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 1, 2016 18:40:14 GMT
Nah, not asking for that much, it's just this blasted thing is so in your face, unbelievable they let Wrigthbus get away with it on a commercial product; front seats upstairs of a decker were always meant to be 'luxury' regardless of what town/city the bus belongs to :/ I just can't stand that pillar thing and don't understand why more of those buses are coming to ruin the day for many of us, who still appreciate upper deck views 🙄 This view is just ridiculous man! I like the upstairs view but I never ever sit in the front seat. Usually the legroom is far too restricted and then you inevitably get mewling or over excited kids jumping up and down like a Zebedee on speed. BOING BOING BOING. I've actually not been on a "frog face" Gemini 3 as you so eloquently describe them. I have been on the related but older "mobile phone" versions on the 34 and I think they're OK. The only oddity I've found was when I sat at the back downstairs and one set of seats has a very low headroom - worse than the rear of a NB4L and that's saying something. OK that front pillar isn't ideal but TfL won't fund more expensive vehicles in and of themselves unless forced by Mayoral policies (NB4L, early hybrids, hydrogen and now all electrics). On the rare occasions that TfL pays any attention to interiors it gets things all wrong. There are perfectly decent seats further back on a DD top deck with nice views perfectly achieveable. My first "Frog Face" was on the 94, with a driver with a heavy right foot - was almost thrown down the stairs as the bus shot forward before catching it's next gear on the I-Shift 'box I have gotten used to it, I find the pillar thing annoying (I used to drive a BMW 5 series GT so know bad design and blidspots very well - try looking out the back window and parking one ) but haven't been on a 340 StreetDeck but sampled the same engine on a very packed 192 bus instead The seating isn't bad, the extra ones at the very back are nice, but the cleaning staff will find it's a magnet for discarded fried chicken / takeaway boxes and other trash left by schoolkids as it makes its way thru it's route
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Dec 1, 2016 18:53:19 GMT
I've actually not been on a "frog face" Gemini 3 as you so eloquently describe them. I have been on the related but older "mobile phone" versions on the 34 and I think they're OK. Those don't count - they're oldstyle, a la Gemini 2 except with a high blindbox. So front visibility ain't disrupted at all in these. Those ones (the SmileyFaces) I actually love and don't understand why they had to be changed into the heaps that are on offer now. Ok there is the windscreen wrap which drivers appreciate, but why the hell did they have to ruin the passengers' view for that -_- Not cool! Should've left the top design intact. Anyway, I am one of those people who prefer front over the side view, and hence the pillars annoy me so much. Oh, and I don't like aisle seats, they just make me feel odd. Found that out on my first ever frog, on 155. And I was so mad (especially that I like the route. But nothing compared to butchering of the beloved 119, my OmniDekkas! ) Why can't buses have windscreens like Olympuses, now that's what I idolise
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Post by sid on Dec 1, 2016 19:32:59 GMT
I've actually not been on a "frog face" Gemini 3 as you so eloquently describe them. I have been on the related but older "mobile phone" versions on the 34 and I think they're OK. Those don't count - they're oldstyle, a la Gemini 2 except with a high blindbox. So front visibility ain't disrupted at all in these. Those ones (the SmileyFaces) I actually love and don't understand why they had to be changed into the heaps that are on offer now. Ok there is the windscreen wrap which drivers appreciate, but why the hell did they have to ruin the passengers' view for that -_- Not cool! Should've left the top design intact. Anyway, I am one of those people who prefer front over the side view, and hence the pillars annoy me so much. Oh, and I don't like aisle seats, they just make me feel odd. Found that out on my first ever frog, on 155. And I was so mad (especially that I like the route. But nothing compared to butchering of the beloved 119, my OmniDekkas! ) Why can't buses have windscreens like Olympuses, now that's what I idolise I don't much like the Olympus, in fact I think there could be serious safety implications in the event of an accident, but I certainly agree about the hideous pillars on the Gemini 3. As for the suggestion of sitting in the aisle seat, well what if you're travelling with somebody else? One of you is going to get the obscured view. I find it quite concerning that buses would ever be built with such an obvious design fault but then I suppose the attitude is "it's only a bus"!
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 1, 2016 20:18:32 GMT
I like the upstairs view but I never ever sit in the front seat. Usually the legroom is far too restricted and then you inevitably get mewling or over excited kids jumping up and down like a Zebedee on speed. BOING BOING BOING. I've actually not been on a "frog face" Gemini 3 as you so eloquently describe them. I have been on the related but older "mobile phone" versions on the 34 and I think they're OK. The only oddity I've found was when I sat at the back downstairs and one set of seats has a very low headroom - worse than the rear of a NB4L and that's saying something. OK that front pillar isn't ideal but TfL won't fund more expensive vehicles in and of themselves unless forced by Mayoral policies (NB4L, early hybrids, hydrogen and now all electrics). On the rare occasions that TfL pays any attention to interiors it gets things all wrong. There are perfectly decent seats further back on a DD top deck with nice views perfectly achieveable. My first "Frog Face" was on the 94, with a driver with a heavy right foot - was almost thrown down the stairs as the bus shot forward before catching it's next gear on the I-Shift 'box I have gotten used to it, I find the pillar thing annoying ( I used to drive a BMW 5 series GT so know bad design and blidspots very well - try looking out the back window and parking one ) but haven't been on a 340 StreetDeck but sampled the same engine on a very packed 192 bus instead The seating isn't bad, the extra ones at the very back are nice, but the cleaning staff will find it's a magnet for discarded fried chicken / takeaway boxes and other trash left by schoolkids as it makes its way thru it's route Bahahahaha, oh boy, after all the hoo-haa you made of it a few months ago, you got shot of the 5 Series GT. I guess you finally realised it was a granny wagon.
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 1, 2016 20:42:48 GMT
I often like to sit at the front upstairs but haven't so far on a new design Gemini 3 or StreetDeck in service. However I did sit at the front and take note of the front pillars of the Brighton & Hove StreetDeck which was on display at the Camberwell open day last year, as there had already been plenty of comments about the design at that time. My thought was that while they are significantly thicker than on other types, most photos exaggerate the effect as the edge of the side window is nearly always cut off, making the pillars appear to be more of an issue. Also, to state the obvious, when actually on board a bus you can move / turn your head, so overall I didn't think the pillars obscured the view too much. But as I said this was at a garage open day and not running along a street. When travelling on the lower deck of buses with this front I've found the angled lower nearside edge of the windscreen to be more noticeable than the curved one on the classic design, not that it matters (at least for a passenger) as that isn't ever the best view out the bus.
I've never sat at the front on an Olympus either, I think I've only ever been on Olympuses twice. Even so I'm sure the view from one of those will be as un-obscured as you can get, but I'm not particuarly a fan of the external appearance of buses with such large front windows, compared to designs such as the NBfL or SRM. The reduced depth of the windows on that front is not a problem when sitting in the front row, and it's hard to see much except sky from further back on any bus. Also the NBfL does in effect have glazed pillars though what you really have is a thin pillar directly in front of the window seat (if that term can be used for the front row). In my opinion a central pillar would be 'out of the way' but would likely look either too old fashioned or just odd, while any other solution would be difficult with a rounded front. But then I don't really find it to be a nuisance when looking out the front, though others might disagree of course.
I agree that luxury interiors will never happen on TfL services, and I don't think it would be such a good idea anyway. Not only are the commercial operators inconsistent with upgrading only selected services, which doesn't give the best impression of the other routes, but I don't see how wood-effect flooring, leather seats and some of the more gimmicky features would fit into the overall TfL image. WiFi could be useful, but otherwise I'd prefer the 'TfL interior' to become standard (along with Indian red wheels and a standardisation of which areas should be painted black on each type of bus) and the other features stay the same.
If the money was somehow available, the biggest improvement in my opinion would simply be to improve vehicle presentation. Recently I have seen several Sapphire buses with non-matching panels, partially missing branding and faulty destination displays, or buses running with internal next stop displays / announcements not working. This doesn't do a premium brand any good and though less obvious, the external appearance of many buses in London is no better.
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Post by rmz19 on Dec 1, 2016 21:30:57 GMT
I've actually not been on a "frog face" Gemini 3 as you so eloquently describe them. I have been on the related but older "mobile phone" versions on the 34 and I think they're OK. Why can't buses have windscreens like Olympuses, now that's what I idolise Personally the Olympus has the best front design of any bus that ever existed in London, the front design is something to behold It's a massive shame they had to be withdrawn.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 1, 2016 22:40:08 GMT
Why can't buses have windscreens like Olympuses, now that's what I idolise Personally the Olympus has the best front design of any bus that ever existed in London, the front design is something to behold It's a massive shame they had to be withdrawn. They haven't all gone have they? Aren't DOEs being refurbed for another term of work in South London.
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 1, 2016 22:51:32 GMT
Personally the Olympus has the best front design of any bus that ever existed in London, the front design is something to behold It's a massive shame they had to be withdrawn. They haven't all gone have they? Aren't DOEs being refurbed for another term of work in South London. Metroline's SELs are still around too, as are Go-Ahead (ex-Metrobus) 870-899 and CT Plus EO1. Isn't it just London United's SOs which were withdrawn, back in late 2009?
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Post by vjaska on Dec 1, 2016 22:53:49 GMT
Personally the Olympus has the best front design of any bus that ever existed in London, the front design is something to behold It's a massive shame they had to be withdrawn. They haven't all gone have they? Aren't DOEs being refurbed for another term of work in South London. Indeed - not to mention EO1 will be around until mid next year as well.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 1, 2016 23:13:11 GMT
Those don't count - they're oldstyle, a la Gemini 2 except with a high blindbox. So front visibility ain't disrupted at all in these. Those ones (the SmileyFaces) I actually love and don't understand why they had to be changed into the heaps that are on offer now. Ok there is the windscreen wrap which drivers appreciate, but why the hell did they have to ruin the passengers' view for that -_- Not cool! Should've left the top design intact. Anyway, I am one of those people who prefer front over the side view, and hence the pillars annoy me so much. Oh, and I don't like aisle seats, they just make me feel odd. Found that out on my first ever frog, on 155. And I was so mad (especially that I like the route. But nothing compared to butchering of the beloved 119, my OmniDekkas! ) Why can't buses have windscreens like Olympuses, now that's what I idolise I don't much like the Olympus, in fact I think there could be serious safety implications in the event of an accident, but I certainly agree about the hideous pillars on the Gemini 3. As for the suggestion of sitting in the aisle seat, well what if you're travelling with somebody else? One of you is going to get the obscured view. I find it quite concerning that buses would ever be built with such an obvious design fault but then I suppose the attitude is "it's only a bus"! Seeing as all vehicles built in Europe have to be certified by safety experts, I don't understand how you can say that there could be safety implications in the event of an accident - if there was, it would of either been modified or pulled off the road. Again, how is a pillar a design fault when it's actually doing it's job. A design fault is something like the stuff in a Tridents engine bay that causes fires or the staircase failing on the Omnicity DD - a non see through pillar is not the same thing.
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