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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 21, 2017 18:49:31 GMT
I've used the hopper fare a few times to get to work, changing between two low frequency routes (even though I tend to have just missed the second). This replaced bus+train, however I still find myself doing this a lot because the hopper won't allow you to take a second journey if the first was issued on an emergency fare, and the nearest place to top up is the station. That's a standard thing across all ticketing. If you're Oyster had a negative value, you can't use it, including the 16+ zip. Also won't allow you to add a new season ticket until you have a positive balance (happened to me at Stratford). So it's not just the Hopper fare, it's general Oyster settings The thing about the 16+ Zip does annoy me as the way the negative balance is treated is so inconsistent. I've e-mailed TfL a over this matter and I've read somewhere else that if it does fail you on a bus, you are still entitled to travel for free provided you show the driver the zip and the photo matches up. It does show TfL are aware of this issue so I wonder if it's a software issue which causes the 16+ Oyster to fail, it certainly isn't the case on the 11-15 ones. Once I did get told to get off as it kept failing me, ended up asking TfL (hence the e-mail mentioned earlier) and I think the driver ended up in trouble. Certainly not my intention but I think this sort of information needs to be more readily available. I never knew the hopper wouldn't work on a negative balance until I read this.
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Post by john on Aug 21, 2017 21:04:10 GMT
That's a standard thing across all ticketing. If you're Oyster had a negative value, you can't use it, including the 16+ zip. Also won't allow you to add a new season ticket until you have a positive balance (happened to me at Stratford). So it's not just the Hopper fare, it's general Oyster settings The thing about the 16+ Zip does annoy me as the way the negative balance is treated is so inconsistent. I've e-mailed TfL a over this matter and I've read somewhere else that if it does fail you on a bus, you are still entitled to travel for free provided you show the driver the zip and the photo matches up. It does show TfL are aware of this issue so I wonder if it's a software issue which causes the 16+ Oyster to fail, it certainly isn't the case on the 11-15 ones. Once I did get told to get off as it kept failing me, ended up asking TfL (hence the e-mail mentioned earlier) and I think the driver ended up in trouble. Certainly not my intention but I think this sort of information needs to be more readily available. I never knew the hopper wouldn't work on a negative balance until I read this. Not been told anything like that about th 16+....i let them on anyway though. Just a friendly ear that they need to top it up for future reference.
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Post by mondraker275 on Aug 22, 2017 8:46:54 GMT
That's a standard thing across all ticketing. If you're Oyster had a negative value, you can't use it, including the 16+ zip. Also won't allow you to add a new season ticket until you have a positive balance (happened to me at Stratford). So it's not just the Hopper fare, it's general Oyster settings The thing about the 16+ Zip does annoy me as the way the negative balance is treated is so inconsistent. I've e-mailed TfL a over this matter and I've read somewhere else that if it does fail you on a bus, you are still entitled to travel for free provided you show the driver the zip and the photo matches up. It does show TfL are aware of this issue so I wonder if it's a software issue which causes the 16+ Oyster to fail, it certainly isn't the case on the 11-15 ones. Once I did get told to get off as it kept failing me, ended up asking TfL (hence the e-mail mentioned earlier) and I think the driver ended up in trouble. Certainly not my intention but I think this sort of information needs to be more readily available. I never knew the hopper wouldn't work on a negative balance until I read this. I dont quite understand the issue your raising. Is it that the 16+ card does not work on a negative balance, or there is a general other issue with 16+ cards that is causing them to fail? I dont think that it is generally true that drivers should let 11-15 and 16+ on because their cards are not working as they can be cancelled. Although, I guess the driver could read that on the machine. The oyster card not working on a negative balance is very frustrating as it does delay your interchange time for your next bus regarding the hopper. However, I find it perplexing that when you have £4.40 on your card and you reach the daily limit of £4.50, (net -10p), you have the freedom to use the buses the rest of the day, but your oyster does not work until you have to top up again.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 22, 2017 11:23:06 GMT
The thing about the 16+ Zip does annoy me as the way the negative balance is treated is so inconsistent. I've e-mailed TfL a over this matter and I've read somewhere else that if it does fail you on a bus, you are still entitled to travel for free provided you show the driver the zip and the photo matches up. It does show TfL are aware of this issue so I wonder if it's a software issue which causes the 16+ Oyster to fail, it certainly isn't the case on the 11-15 ones. Once I did get told to get off as it kept failing me, ended up asking TfL (hence the e-mail mentioned earlier) and I think the driver ended up in trouble. Certainly not my intention but I think this sort of information needs to be more readily available. I never knew the hopper wouldn't work on a negative balance until I read this. I dont quite understand the issue your raising. Is it that the 16+ card does not work on a negative balance, or there is a general other issue with 16+ cards that is causing them to fail? I dont think that it is generally true that drivers should let 11-15 and 16+ on because their cards are not working as they can be cancelled. Although, I guess the driver could read that on the machine. The oyster card not working on a negative balance is very frustrating as it does delay your interchange time for your next bus regarding the hopper. However, I find it perplexing that when you have £4.40 on your card and you reach the daily limit of £4.50, (net -10p), you have the freedom to use the buses the rest of the day, but your oyster does not work until you have to top up again. Yes sorry, I should have been more clear. The issue I was raising is that they fail to work on a negative balance when all it does is delay people boarding.
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Post by ben on Aug 23, 2017 17:47:40 GMT
The oyster card not working on a negative balance is very frustrating as it does delay your interchange time for your next bus regarding the hopper. However, I find it perplexing that when you have £4.40 on your card and you reach the daily limit of £4.50, (net -10p), you have the freedom to use the buses the rest of the day, but your oyster does not work until you have to top up again. Yes this is what I was trying to get at. You don't have to start off with a negative value, just a value which is below that of a single bus fare (say £1.00). You can get on the first bus, but an emergency fare is issued as a single fare takes you into a negative value. But you can't then use the hopper interchange until you have topped up again. At least, that's my predicament.
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Post by Hassaan on Aug 23, 2017 19:18:58 GMT
The thing about the 16+ Zip does annoy me as the way the negative balance is treated is so inconsistent. I've e-mailed TfL a over this matter and I've read somewhere else that if it does fail you on a bus, you are still entitled to travel for free provided you show the driver the zip and the photo matches up. It does show TfL are aware of this issue so I wonder if it's a software issue which causes the 16+ Oyster to fail, it certainly isn't the case on the 11-15 ones. Once I did get told to get off as it kept failing me, ended up asking TfL (hence the e-mail mentioned earlier) and I think the driver ended up in trouble. Certainly not my intention but I think this sort of information needs to be more readily available. I never knew the hopper wouldn't work on a negative balance until I read this. I dont quite understand the issue your raising. Is it that the 16+ card does not work on a negative balance, or there is a general other issue with 16+ cards that is causing them to fail? I dont think that it is generally true that drivers should let 11-15 and 16+ on because their cards are not working as they can be cancelled. Although, I guess the driver could read that on the machine. The oyster card not working on a negative balance is very frustrating as it does delay your interchange time for your next bus regarding the hopper. However, I find it perplexing that when you have £4.40 on your card and you reach the daily limit of £4.50, (net -10p), you have the freedom to use the buses the rest of the day, but your oyster does not work until you have to top up again. Some people have insisted to me that the 16+ free travel Oyster doesn't work on buses with £0 on the card, but I don't ever recall having such an issue when I used to have one Certainly the 18+ Student one works on £0 if you've reached the cap or have a season ticket on it.
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Post by mondraker275 on Aug 24, 2017 10:20:39 GMT
I dont quite understand the issue your raising. Is it that the 16+ card does not work on a negative balance, or there is a general other issue with 16+ cards that is causing them to fail? I dont think that it is generally true that drivers should let 11-15 and 16+ on because their cards are not working as they can be cancelled. Although, I guess the driver could read that on the machine. The oyster card not working on a negative balance is very frustrating as it does delay your interchange time for your next bus regarding the hopper. However, I find it perplexing that when you have £4.40 on your card and you reach the daily limit of £4.50, (net -10p), you have the freedom to use the buses the rest of the day, but your oyster does not work until you have to top up again. Some people have insisted to me that the 16+ free travel Oyster doesn't work on buses with £0 on the card, but I don't ever recall having such an issue when I used to have one Certainly the 18+ Student one works on £0 if you've reached the cap or have a season ticket on it. I would assume that all 16+ oysters when first issued have a zero balance, so must work with £0 on them.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 24, 2017 10:53:17 GMT
Some people have insisted to me that the 16+ free travel Oyster doesn't work on buses with £0 on the card, but I don't ever recall having such an issue when I used to have one Certainly the 18+ Student one works on £0 if you've reached the cap or have a season ticket on it. I would assume that all 16+ oysters when first issued have a zero balance, so must work with £0 on them. The usual rule for any Oyster card which can hold a cash balance and a season ticket of some form is that the cash balance must be Zero or higher (so 0p, 1p or more). A negative cash balance will prevent the card from being accepted for travel even if you have a valid season ticket. This is because you cannot "double dip" into a negative balance and it is impossible for anyone to know if, at the point of card validation, you may travel beyond your zones and therefore need to draw on the card balance for an extension fare. If you are using purely PAYG then the system also checks, for tube / rail journeys, that the card balance is equal to or more than the minimum fare from the station you are starting at (so £1.50 off peak outside zone 1 or £2.40 in Zone 1). For buses it will just check that you have a positive balance as buses have the "one more ride" facility which allows the balance to go negative. Rail journeys have always allowed for a possible negative balance on final exit because of the way the maximum fare is deducted on entry and then value is (usually) added back on exit to charge the correct fare that is due.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Aug 27, 2017 18:53:22 GMT
I clearly had the £0 Zip issue with my old 16+ - my class was getting the 19 bus into central London and... Red light. Driver wouldn't budge even though I told him ‘ But… I go for free anyway!’ so my teacher had to "bribe" him with £1.50 (fortunately it was still when they accepted cash on buses ). My Friend had the same issue too when I brought it up once. So this is no myth at all. The 'kiddie' Zip for secondary didn't have this nonsense however. I also confirm hopper doesn't work on negative - found out the hard way when I still had to use my 'paid' card. I think I posted about it on here before, the story was I got a G1 then a 319, card rejected, and driver luckily reluctantly agreed to let me on.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 27, 2017 21:38:44 GMT
I clearly had the £0 Zip issue with my old 16+ - my class was getting the 19 bus into central London and... Red light. Driver wouldn't budge even though I told him ‘ But… I go for free anyway!’ so my teacher had to "bribe" him with £1.50 (fortunately it was still when they accepted cash on buses ). My Friend had the same issue too when I brought it up once. So this is no myth at all. The 'kiddie' Zip for secondary didn't have this nonsense however. I also confirm hopper doesn't work on negative - found out the hard way when I still had to use my 'paid' card. I think I posted about it on here before, the story was I got a G1 then a 319, card rejected, and driver luckily reluctantly agreed to let me on. Having read the various posts above it looks to me like there is a glitch in the Oyster system. Out of curiosity, and purely for my own interest, what did you do after the issue on the 19 bus? Did you check the balance and confirm it was zero? Were you able to travel on other buses later in the day or did you have repeated problems? Did you have to add any value? I'm no expert on child / student concessions but seemingly random card rejections and TfL having a "rule" about allowing 16-17 card holders to board anyway all points to a system issue (and not a "myth").
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Aug 28, 2017 7:57:19 GMT
Out of curiosity, and purely for my own interest, what did you do after the issue on the 19 bus? Did you check the balance and confirm it was zero? Were you able to travel on other buses later in the day or did you have repeated problems? Did you have to add any value? I'm no expert on child / student concessions but seemingly random card rejections and TfL having a "rule" about allowing 16-17 card holders to board anyway all points to a system issue (and not a "myth"). I went to nearest tube station after the mini-trip was over and the ticket machine showed balance of £0.00. So I simply topped up as I had to get back home somehow
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Post by mondraker275 on Aug 28, 2017 10:18:34 GMT
I clearly had the £0 Zip issue with my old 16+ - my class was getting the 19 bus into central London and... Red light. Driver wouldn't budge even though I told him ‘ But… I go for free anyway!’ so my teacher had to "bribe" him with £1.50 (fortunately it was still when they accepted cash on buses ). My Friend had the same issue too when I brought it up once. So this is no myth at all. The 'kiddie' Zip for secondary didn't have this nonsense however. I also confirm hopper doesn't work on negative - found out the hard way when I still had to use my 'paid' card. I think I posted about it on here before, the story was I got a G1 then a 319, card rejected, and driver luckily reluctantly agreed to let me on. Two questions How big was your class, and did anyone else have an issue. As if it was a large class, then there must have been a few people with a zero balance. From your reply to snoggle you did not try your card again and topped up before trying it on another bus. What journey did you have before that failed journey. as the balance must have been zero for the previous successful use of the card (If you remember that is). I am astonished by the driver here. A class with a teacher, and he would not budge over one students oyster not working. I mean its tough being a driver but make your life easier by picking the right battles.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Aug 28, 2017 12:15:12 GMT
Two questions How big was your class, and did anyone else have an issue. As if it was a large class, then there must have been a few people with a zero balance. From your reply to snoggle you did not try your card again and topped up before trying it on another bus. What journey did you have before that failed journey. as the balance must have been zero for the previous successful use of the card (If you remember that is). I am astonished by the driver here. A class with a teacher, and he would not budge over one students oyster not working. I mean its tough being a driver but make your life easier by picking the right battles. Oh I must've re-pressed the card like 5 times, to no avail. Using another bus hasn't occurred to me as it seemed obvious the same would happen. Class was small, maybe 15 people? Nobody else ran into it - we were told to top up prior and those on negative popped to the tube station, and although I was aware I had Zero balance at the time, if the bus fare is £0, why bother? Then again TfL logic once again beat me I used up my balance on the tube in order to get to the college. I had the exact tube fare on it prior hence it was wiped to £0. The driver was clearly a miserable toad, he wouldn't even listen, he would actually not allow me on had money not been offered 🙄
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Post by snoggle on Aug 28, 2017 12:18:36 GMT
Out of curiosity, and purely for my own interest, what did you do after the issue on the 19 bus? Did you check the balance and confirm it was zero? Were you able to travel on other buses later in the day or did you have repeated problems? Did you have to add any value? I'm no expert on child / student concessions but seemingly random card rejections and TfL having a "rule" about allowing 16-17 card holders to board anyway all points to a system issue (and not a "myth"). I went to nearest tube station after the mini-trip was over and the ticket machine showed balance of £0.00. So I simply topped up as I had to get back home somehow OK and thanks. I'd still say there is a system glitch. I've read plenty of background official info about the inner workings of Oyster that says a zero balance should not prevent an Oyster card working. Not arguing btw - just stating what I've read.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 28, 2017 20:40:51 GMT
Amazingly TfL have actually responded to the Transport Committee reports on bus safety and network design. TfL response on bus safetyTfL response on network designInteresting that the bus safety one is in full TfL design spec with new Johnson text and looks official - presumably because the Mayor supports this. In contrast the bus network design response barely states it's from TfL. However there are some interesting little snippets in it. There is an update on the "access to Hospitals" priority list with progress on a few of the proposals here including the route 470 extension to Epsom GH and also the 440 possibly going on to Wembley (if S106 monies are forthcoming). Route 5's diversion via Queens H was done at zero cost by cutting frequencies to facilitate the extra run time. TfL are apparently going to work with Enfield Council about a network review (where have we heard that before?) and possible Winchmore Hill to N Middx Hospital. Either route 17 or 390 could be extended to the Whittington Hospital if money and land can be found for a stand. Quote from the report re area network reviews - "Significant growth areas coming forward which will require changes to the bus network include Barking Riverside, Croydon, Royal Docks, Colindale, Vauxhall / Nine Elms/Battersea, and Lea Valley. These have either been recently reviewed or will be reviewed in the next two years." Croydon and Lea Valley are the new ones there given we have pointers / reports about the other areas. There is also talk about possible express routes on the Old Kent Road, in SE London (North Greenwich – Woolwich – Thamesmead – Slade Green corridor) and in NW London using the North Circular Road (North Finchley Brent Cross – Ealing - Brentford - Heathrow – Uxbridge corridor). However things like bendy buses are discounted as is reform of the route contract / tendering process. Worse the report says capacity is being "uplifted" in Outer London which is a downright lie as far as I am concerned as I see local routes reduced in frequency - the W11, W12 and 230 certainly are not being "uplifted in capacity". "Additional reviews of the central London network will be undertaken over the next 12-18 months to ensure the optimal provision of capacity" - more cuts then! WiFi trials have been abandoned as take up was too low and it's too expensive to run. Any other technological improvements like advance warning of full buses or wheelchair bay occupancy are dependent on the replacement of I-Bus which is not yet funded. Ditto for more Countdown screens. There is also no reference to a possible Hayes branding trial which suggests this has been binned. Night bus cutbacks are confirmed with a statement that no service frequency will be lower than every 30 minutes although 1 or 2 low ridership routes may be withdrawn if a replacement is nearby. Bet the N73 is axed north of Stoke Newington and we're left with a nightly 123 instead. This looks like the usual TfL sop to try to fend off the committee's demands while not doing anything contrary to Mayoral policy and coping with a truly dire financial situation. There is very little commitment to do anything remotely serious and far too much reliance is being place on the "Healthy Streets" agenda which I think is riddled with contradictions and which has yet to be implemented anywhere. I can't see some Outer London Boroughs accepting many of TfL's demands given the likely reaction of voters about restraint on their use of cars.
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