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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 29, 2016 12:32:43 GMT
I think this is a bit of a non story to be honest. Most trains have had heavily refurbed interiors over the years. i.e. take the District Line or the 313/315 class on the London Overground/TfL rail network. I could understand if they were carrying their standard interior from day one; but that isn't the case.
See article below
Average age of British passenger trains is 21, study says www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38450117
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Post by snoggle on Dec 29, 2016 13:16:37 GMT
I think this is a bit of a non story to be honest. Most trains have had heavily refurbed interiors over the years. i.e. take the District Line or the 313/315 class on the London Overground/TfL rail network. I could understand if they were carrying their standard interior from day one; but that isn't the case.
See article below
Average age of British passenger trains is 21, study says www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38450117
It's a load of utter rubbish. The lifespan of most trains is 40 years. Therefore an average of 21 years is in no way any cause for concern. If the average was higher than 25 years and there were no replacement trains on order then yes the criticism would be valid. What the article fails to properly acknowledge is that all of the oldest stock listed is due for replacement. In the Jan 2017 Modern Railways Roger Ford has listed nearly 6,000 carriages on order for the railways. In the same magazine Mr Ford has also shown it is perfectly possible for operators to run old trains effectively and to improve their reliability. OK they'll never be top of the performance charts but old doesn't necessarily mean bad in every instance. Mr Ford also warns, rightly in my view, that bringing new trains into services poses short term issues as new trains are "debugged" of their faults and the depot teams and drivers learn how they work and how to repair / fault diagnose them. I understand Siemens have been having considerable issues with getting the class 700s on Thameslink sorted out because so many issues are linked to software. The only franchises listed where there is uncertainty over rolling stock plans are Arriva Trains Wales and East Midlands. They are in their retendering phases or are due to be soon so when they are reawarded we shall see what is planned. The big danger is the nature of plans for electrification given NR can't string wires properly at an affordable cost and the DfT have fallen in love with bi-mode trains (quelle surprise). |
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 29, 2016 13:23:51 GMT
The big danger is the nature of plans for electrification given NR can't string wires properly at an affordable cost and the DfT have fallen in love with bi-mode trains (quelle surprise). And yet NR is a nationalised industry... so all those of you that are out there that are advocating nationalise everything which will cure all the country's ills ... be careful what you wish for. Public sector yet again proven to be wholly inefficient. |
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Post by ohdear on Dec 29, 2016 13:34:57 GMT
The big danger is the nature of plans for electrification given NR can't string wires properly at an affordable cost and the DfT have fallen in love with bi-mode trains (quelle surprise). And yet NR is a nationalised industry... so all those of you that are out there that are advocating nationalise everything which will cure all the country's ills ... be careful what you wish for. Public sector yet again proven to be wholly inefficient. Just remind us what subsidies British Rail were receiving against what the private sector are getting. If British Rail had been receiving such sums it might have been a different story
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Post by John tuthill on Dec 29, 2016 13:37:17 GMT
I think this is a bit of a non story to be honest. Most trains have had heavily refurbed interiors over the years. i.e. take the District Line or the 313/315 class on the London Overground/TfL rail network. I could understand if they were carrying their standard interior from day one; but that isn't the case.
See article below
Average age of British passenger trains is 21, study says www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38450117
It must be a no news day considering this information was released by the ORR on 27th OCTOBER! If ANY piece of equipment is regularly maintained and spares are available then keep it going until it's unsafe or not economically viable.  |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 29, 2016 14:33:29 GMT
I think this is a bit of a non story to be honest. Most trains have had heavily refurbed interiors over the years. i.e. take the District Line or the 313/315 class on the London Overground/TfL rail network. I could understand if they were carrying their standard interior from day one; but that isn't the case.
See article below
Average age of British passenger trains is 21, study says www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38450117
I'm no expert on trains so most likely have this wrong - I take it the Isle of Wight Railway is no longer a railway judging by the article as surely that has the oldest stock on a non heritage railway - 1938 former tube stock. |
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 29, 2016 15:23:03 GMT
And yet NR is a nationalised industry... so all those of you that are out there that are advocating nationalise everything which will cure all the country's ills ... be careful what you wish for. Public sector yet again proven to be wholly inefficient. Just remind us what subsidies British Rail were receiving against what the private sector are getting. If British Rail had been receiving such sums it might have been a different story
£2.4b a year at privatistation, £5.4b now. Not sure how the first figure would look like allowing for inflation ... but investment in rail is a lot better now than it was in the final years of nationalisation... when you felt the rails services were generally being wound down. Those posts are total subsidy ... so includes NR expenditure |
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Post by John tuthill on Dec 29, 2016 15:23:09 GMT
I think this is a bit of a non story to be honest. Most trains have had heavily refurbed interiors over the years. i.e. take the District Line or the 313/315 class on the London Overground/TfL rail network. I could understand if they were carrying their standard interior from day one; but that isn't the case.
See article below
Average age of British passenger trains is 21, study says www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38450117
I'm no expert on trains so most likely have this wrong - I take it the Isle of Wight Railway is no longer a railway judging by the article as surely that has the oldest stock on a non heritage railway - 1938 former tube stock. Wake up at the back there! It's the BBC you don't think they research their stories do you?  |
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Post by snowman on Dec 29, 2016 15:33:45 GMT
I think this is a bit of a non story to be honest. Most trains have had heavily refurbed interiors over the years. i.e. take the District Line or the 313/315 class on the London Overground/TfL rail network. I could understand if they were carrying their standard interior from day one; but that isn't the case.
See article below
Average age of British passenger trains is 21, study says www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38450117
I'm no expert on trains so most likely have this wrong - I take it the Isle of Wight Railway is no longer a railway judging by the article as surely that has the oldest stock on a non heritage railway - 1938 former tube stock. Must be a quiet news day, but it does coincide with fare increase time of year. Part of the justification for fare increase is new rolling stock, but if average age has gone up in last few years, rather proves replacement not even at required renewal rate, certainly not at a rate that justifies claiming improvements. There has been a lull in deliveries during last year or two, but should be few thousand new carriages in next three years. In London have 150 class 707 for SWT 150 class 717 for Moorgate, and about 120 for NE London Over 100 new electric 387s for GWR. (Plus some elsewhere short term) Hundreds of new carriages for Thameslink and Elizabeth line About 500 for Anglia plus over 100 dual mode |
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 29, 2016 17:20:34 GMT
I'm more concerned about the service than the age of the carriages. Nice new trains on strike days will sit in the same sidings as their Class 455 counterparts on Southern Rail, I'm sure  |
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Post by thesquirrels on Dec 30, 2016 9:56:10 GMT
Just remind us what subsidies British Rail were receiving against what the private sector are getting. If British Rail had been receiving such sums it might have been a different story
£2.4b a year at privatistation, £5.4b now. Not sure how the first figure would look like allowing for inflation ... but investment in rail is a lot better now than it was in the final years of nationalisation... when you felt the rails services were generally being wound down. Those posts are total subsidy ... so includes NR expenditure The 1990s figure is adjusted for inflation AIUI. Also worth bearing in mind that passenger figures have more than doubled since 1994, whether you count by passenger kms or unique journeys (c.150% increase here), so the subsidy per head is pretty close to what it was then. A lot of the subsidy going into BR in the early 90s was simply to keep crumbling infrastructure upright and the wheels rolling. InterCity and the more lucrative NSE main lines were in fairly good shape but many more back-water parts of the network were absolutely appalling. The overall picture is vastly improved now. When you consider that London buses was running on a £500m+ subsidy for many years, £5bn for the entire national rail network actually doesn't look too bad. The problem with NR is where the money is actually going. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Dec 31, 2016 13:05:55 GMT
It does highlight the age of some rolling stock when I train people to operate trains that were built before they were born...
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