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Post by SILENCED on Mar 16, 2017 19:01:48 GMT
Can that really be correct? ... so for the next one Brixton-Streatham, all BN must be Euro6, 2,137,417 at N must be Euro6 and 250,255 at TH must be Euro6. Can see a lot of those new/er HA/HVs with London North coming south of the river. Also assume the 254 batch of LTs will be swapped for the 137 batch. 255 will be interesting as Arriva do not have suitable vehicles in stock. I had a feeling it would run down to at least St. Leonard's Church although I thought they might at least drop down to the common but I guess the 60 isn't a massive priority for them. The already hybrid routes shouldn't be a massive issue to upgrade as we already know Euro V hybrids running into the ULEZ will be upgraded to Euro VI at some point so I'd expect the same to happen there. I wouldn't assume the LT's would be swapped but rather upgraded as well. The remaining routes will probably have their diesel buses moved elsewhere. The 255 is the one problem I see coming - maybe these will be modified otherwise would they be forced into buying brand new buses? When will TfL award the Euro6 upgrade contracts, and when will the winning bidder be ready to mobilise ... 6 months to get sorted and upgrade loads of buses just for the Streatham scheme ... Can't see them all getting upgraded in time ... But we will see
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 18, 2017 18:57:45 GMT
Am I right in thinking that an upgraded euro 5 to euro 6 diesel bus is acceptable on these Green Zones?
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Post by snoggle on Mar 18, 2017 19:21:47 GMT
Am I right in thinking that an upgraded euro 5 to euro 6 diesel bus is acceptable on these Green Zones? I would say "yes" as I understand what TfL are trying to do. The choices are zero emission single decks and hybrid / zero emission double decks in Zone 1. Elsewhere it is euro6, euro6 equivalent following upgrade or euro6 hybrid double decker elsewhere in London. That means the entire fleet will be euro6 or equivalent or zero emission by 2019. This will be achieved by a mix of new purchases, use of existing compliant vehicles or a big programme of engine / exhaust conversion. The latter really has to get going very soon given the thousands of vehicles that are in scope. If TfL can't manage to fit windows to 800+ vehicles in a few months how is it going to cope with a far more complex and lengthy drivetrain conversion programme over 2 years but affecting thousands and thousands of vehicles?
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 18, 2017 19:30:51 GMT
That's good to know as looking further on, the forth scheme is Lewisham/Catford and I can't see Stagecoach getting hybrids on the 136, 199 and 208 (the 136 and 208 have not even started a second term with those E40ds).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 23:09:02 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Mar 30, 2017 23:31:36 GMT
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Post by M1104 on Apr 14, 2017 2:40:44 GMT
"It seems that the Brixton Zone, set to be introduced in October, will cover the main A23 from the Stockwell Road/Gresham Road junction to the A23/A205 junction close to Brixton Hill Tram Depot. Routes 37, 345 and P5 are probably not affected as they merely cross the A23 rather than go along it. Routes 2/N2, 3/N3, 35, 59, 109/N109, 133/N133, 159, 333 and 415 are already run with complaint buses but 45, 118, 196, 250, 322, 355, 432 and P4 are not. With none of these routes due new buses by October another grand switch-around of vehicles is inevitable.
The Putney scheme involved the movement of 76 buses (38 in and 38 out). The total pvr of the affected Brixton routes is 120 so (with spares and the necessary double-shuffle) that is a potential transfer of 250+ buses and, has happened with Peckham Garage losing 24 of its new MHVs to cover the Putney area, there will necessarily be a 'raid' on existing hybrids or euro6 route allocations elsewhere."
Source - LOTS (April edition)
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Post by vjaska on Apr 14, 2017 8:06:02 GMT
"It seems that the Brixton Zone, set to be introduced in October, will cover the main A23 from the Stockwell Road/Gresham Road junction to the A23/A205 junction close to Brixton Hill Tram Depot. Routes 37, 345 and P5 are probably not affected as they merely cross the A23 rather than go along it. Routes 2/N2, 3/N3, 35, 59, 109/N109, 133/N133, 159, 333 and 415 are already run with complaint buses but 45, 118, 196, 250, 322, 355, 432 and P4 are not. With none of these routes due new buses by October another grand switch-around of vehicles is inevitable. The Putney scheme involved the movement of 76 buses (38 in and 38 out). The total pvr of the affected Brixton routes is 120 so (with spares and the necessary double-shuffle) that is a potential transfer of 250+ buses and, has happened with Peckham Garage losing 24 of its new MHVs to cover the Putney area, there will necessarily be a 'raid' on existing hybrids or euro6 route allocations elsewhere." Source - LOTS (April edition) LOTS is slightly wrong - the 37 & P5 only cross over the A23 in one direction but actually use it in the other direction. The 345 is the only route in Brixton to cross over the A23 on both directions.
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Post by M1104 on Apr 14, 2017 8:27:47 GMT
The 345 is the only route in Brixton to cross over the 345 on both directions. I take it you mean the A23
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Post by planesandtrains on Apr 14, 2017 8:42:51 GMT
"It seems that the Brixton Zone, set to be introduced in October, will cover the main A23 from the Stockwell Road/Gresham Road junction to the A23/A205 junction close to Brixton Hill Tram Depot. Routes 37, 345 and P5 are probably not affected as they merely cross the A23 rather than go along it. Routes 2/N2, 3/N3, 35, 59, 109/N109, 133/N133, 159, 333 and 415 are already run with complaint buses but 45, 118, 196, 250, 322, 355, 432 and P4 are not. With none of these routes due new buses by October another grand switch-around of vehicles is inevitable. The Putney scheme involved the movement of 76 buses (38 in and 38 out). The total pvr of the affected Brixton routes is 120 so (with spares and the necessary double-shuffle) that is a potential transfer of 250+ buses and, has happened with Peckham Garage losing 24 of its new MHVs to cover the Putney area, there will necessarily be a 'raid' on existing hybrids or euro6 route allocations elsewhere." Source - LOTS (April edition) 249 HV Swap anyone?
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Post by vjaska on Apr 14, 2017 8:49:47 GMT
The 345 is the only route in Brixton to cross over the 345 on both directions. I take it you mean the A23 It's what happens when you've just woken up lol - now edited. Furthermore, what LOTS have said goes against the map of green corridors that was produced which showed Brixton's corridor stretching right down to St Leonards Church.
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Post by M1104 on Apr 14, 2017 9:01:34 GMT
I take it you mean the A23 It's what happens when you've just woken up lol - now edited. Furthermore, what LOTS have said goes against the map of green corridors that was produced which showed Brixton's corridor stretching right down to St Leonards Church. From the way LOTS has worded it it doesn't seem to be a 100% certainty on some of the details supplied. It also goes on to mention 10 zones will be delivered by 2020 (which we are already aware of) but adds on that "the official listings are quite vague and contain numerous geographical errors, making it almost impossible to work out the exact extent of each one." Perhaps it is still the overal case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing... or in this case what it's planning.
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Post by fg49 on Apr 14, 2017 13:49:26 GMT
"Routes 2/N2, 3/N3, 35, 59, 109/N109, 133/N133, 159, 333 and 415 are already run with complaint buses but 45, 118, 196, 250, 322, 355, 432 and P4 are not. With none of these routes due new buses by October another grand switch-around of vehicles is inevitable. LOTS is slightly wrong - the 37 & P5 only cross over the A23 in one direction but actually use it in the other direction. The 345 is the only route in Brixton to cross over the A23 on both directions. They mention the 322 with in the non-compliant list, which is also another error. I do hope the Euro 6 conversions do start to take pace by the time this zone is introduced but I think it will come too soon, I'm expecting C/Q/PM to be handing over a lot of their buses to SW (great for me). I'm starting to think TfL didn't think these zones through properly, with a bit of planning, almost all of these routes affected could have been upgraded on contract renewal... I guess that's too expensive though. I mean, E1-15 with Euro 6 engines does sound interesting (if it ever materialises).
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Post by snoggle on Apr 14, 2017 14:11:00 GMT
I'm starting to think TfL didn't think these zones through properly, with a bit of planning, almost all of these routes affected could have been upgraded on contract renewal... I guess that's too expensive though. I mean, E1-15 with Euro 6 engines does sound interesting (if it ever materialises). Advance warning - this post is probably too long for Nathan. Err before we all go "TfL are crap" it is worth bearing in mind that the air quality policy changes come from the Mayor and his team. It is also worth bearing in mind that the Mayor took months to get all of his top team in place - presumably to avoid some of the past pitfalls of appointing people too quickly and then having the media attack their credentials or past behaviour / statements. When you combine all of the policy issues together it represents a very big change for TfL compared to what they were working to until May 2016. TfL is a big organisation with a tremendous work volume and it does actually take time for people to translate a "rough idea" from a politician into a hopefully workable suite of policies that the politician agrees with and then TfL can implement. I expect a ludicrous amount of work has gone on and is still going on to try to ensure that the headline policies are translated into viable, workable and affordable changes to things like bus contracts. I'm the first one to criticise TfL for its more daft decisions or actions but the air quality stuff links back to City Hall, is not easy to deal with and has a large amount of political weight behind it. So far the Mayor's announcements have been reasonably popular but the "wheels will come off" at some point - especially when people have to pay more to use the roads or they have to replace their vehicles. No wonder the Mayor is trying to drag the government into the issue with a call for a diesel scrappage scheme. Part of that is because he doesn't have all the powers but it is also overtly political because if the government don't play ball he can go "I asked the Prime Minister for help, her govt has refused to help, they're reasonable for harming Londoners' health". The bus side is vastly complicated because of the work on the "new bus network", needing to keep route tendering going, needing to finance the air quality related changes to existing vehicles, declining revenue / escalating costs, restructuring to serve NHS facilities, restructuring to deal with Crossrail, some how pander to the demands of the Boroughs, work within a fixed mileage budget. I know we all moan and have our gripes but if I was a senior manager in TfL Buses and having to cope with all that lot on top of a reorganisation that threatened my job and the number of people working for me I doubt I'd be feeling very happy with the world. At some point something will have to give because a lot of those demands for change / new policies are in conflict with one another. Spare a thought for the poor souls tasked with trying to cope with a difficult political agenda and fast approaching implementation deadlines.
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Post by M1104 on Apr 14, 2017 14:39:15 GMT
I mean, E1-15 with Euro 6 engines does sound interesting (if it ever materialises). It's sadly likely that those buses will be cascaded away from the air quality corridors, perhaps pushing out any remaining B7TLs elsewhere within the fleet. That's assuming they themselves do not get withdrawn from TfL service.
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