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Post by snoggle on Jan 31, 2017 16:24:31 GMT
Stagecoach placed an order for around 45 Mercedes Minibuses in their 2016 national order. They are due to enter service in Ashford in a couple of weeks time branded as "Little and Often" taking us back to the original breadvan service concept. Stagecoach web infoStagecoach Service UpdateAshford Bus MapNewspaper articleIt will be interesting to see how well this revised service structure works.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jan 31, 2017 16:59:02 GMT
Stagecoach introducing yet another innovation- remember years ago when we all thought "London to Manchester, on a bus? For £1.50? That will never work!" I really like the concept behind this and I hope it's a real success for them, better at least than the Fife taxi bus initiative trialed years ago. Not sure the concept could be applied everywhere, but it definitely makes public transport more convenient.
I remember a speech made by Brian Souter, maybe last year, about the advance in technology and the rise of Uber and possible similar apps that could become competitors to the bus industry. Maybe this is the first step in combating this future threat.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 31, 2017 17:50:12 GMT
Stagecoach introducing yet another innovation- remember years ago when we all thought "London to Manchester, on a bus? For £1.50? That will never work!" I really like the concept behind this and I hope it's a real success for them, better at least than the Fife taxi bus initiative trialed years ago. Not sure the concept could be applied everywhere, but it definitely makes public transport more convenient. I remember a speech made by Brian Souter, maybe last year, about the advance in technology and the rise of Uber and possible similar apps that could become competitors to the bus industry. Maybe this is the first step in combating this future threat. I've got mixed views given we have been here before in terms of the basic concept. Reading remarks on another forum there are / have been issues at Ashford for a long while. It's been difficult territory for many years and traffic is a real issue. Last time I was there it was all Leyland Nationals ! Ashford is experiencing a lot of growth so this minibus experiment is potentially a way of improving access to new estates and giving a convenient service. Of course the crucial thing will be balancing capacity against demand and ensuring reliability. If Stagey have got their sums right and buses can run without bunching and not be so full that people can't board the first bus then it may well work. However I reckon that's a big challenge in a town with huge car usage. I also had the taxibus trial in the back of my mind when I was reading up about this earlier. As you say Stagecoach and then Lothian Buses couldn't make the concept pay and if they can't do it then who could? I may well have a wander down on HS1 and take a look after the routes have had a chance to bed in a bit. I sometimes take a look at bus networks in other towns and cities and it is telling how many places have quite big hinterlands but the bus servies have been eroded over the years. Places that look to be reasonable bus territory are left without services presumably because multi car households have no need of buses and kids either walk or are driven everywhere. Walking and cycling routes are often non existent or horrible which ties people into car usage forever. That's not really sustainable at all.
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Post by danorak on Jan 31, 2017 22:14:13 GMT
I think this is a fascinating development. Yes, we have been here before, but it worked and the growth led to bigger buses being needed. I do wonder though whether the conditions that made minibuses work last time are still there. It's an experiment well worth watching.
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Post by sid on Feb 12, 2017 12:58:31 GMT
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Post by Alex on Feb 12, 2017 13:18:20 GMT
Wow - that is little! Not what I was expecting at all......I had something the size of the Mercedes 709D (or similar) in mind. Definitely the return of the 'bread van' era as has been touched on in the forum.......
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Post by ThinLizzy on Feb 12, 2017 14:22:43 GMT
reminds me of the Docklands minibus vehicles used in the late 80s on their routes radiating from the Isle Of Dogs
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Post by sid on Feb 13, 2017 22:56:57 GMT
I spent a few hours in Ashford this afternoon, all seemed to be going very well. A few grumbles about the buses being too small but generally passenger reaction was very positive, many seemed impressed with a x15min service up until 23.00. No overcrowding even at peak times, buggies and wheelchairs accommodated without any problems. The extra buses do add to the congestion around the station at busy times but that was about the only negative aspect I noticed. m.flickr.com/#/photos/105118016@N05/32069482103/
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Post by joefrombow on Feb 14, 2017 4:14:33 GMT
Can we have some little and often here in London please too that new Harold hill bus route they wanted to implement a nice few sprinters would do ok on that , and re introduce a 395 type route aswell through rotherhithe tunnel and through some unserved backstreet's aswell plenty of space I think infact for some of these little local feeder or if we going back to the 90's Hopper type routes that don't run evenings and Sundays and provide daytime shopping links too much standardisation in London which leads to certain routes being under used running around carrying fresh air or over used packed all throughout the day .
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Post by sid on Feb 14, 2017 10:03:25 GMT
Can we have some little and often here in London please too that new Harold hill bus route they wanted to implement a nice few sprinters would do ok on that , and re introduce a 395 type route aswell through rotherhithe tunnel and through some unserved backstreet's aswell plenty of space I think infact for some of these little local feeder or if we going back to the 90's Hopper type routes that don't run evenings and Sundays and provide daytime shopping links too much standardisation in London which leads to certain routes being under used running around carrying fresh air or over used packed all throughout the day . I thought the same thing about the 395 through Rotherhithe Tunnel and the potential for some 'little and often' in London. How about the 410 between Crystal Palace and West Croydon every 4/5minutes? The 403 could take over the Wallington section.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 14, 2017 11:01:41 GMT
Can we have some little and often here in London please too that new Harold hill bus route they wanted to implement a nice few sprinters would do ok on that , and re introduce a 395 type route aswell through rotherhithe tunnel and through some unserved backstreet's aswell plenty of space I think infact for some of these little local feeder or if we going back to the 90's Hopper type routes that don't run evenings and Sundays and provide daytime shopping links too much standardisation in London which leads to certain routes being under used running around carrying fresh air or over used packed all throughout the day . Ashford & London are hardly comparable though given London's population is way higher and any minibus route would simply be swamped depending on the area - we still have a fair number of feeder routes and it should be praised that these routes now run for longer and are more frequent. What needs to be tackled is when locals start making up ridiculous reasons for not allowing bus routes to run along certain roads, not hark back to a failed 1990's policy.
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Post by sid on Feb 14, 2017 11:46:18 GMT
Can we have some little and often here in London please too that new Harold hill bus route they wanted to implement a nice few sprinters would do ok on that , and re introduce a 395 type route aswell through rotherhithe tunnel and through some unserved backstreet's aswell plenty of space I think infact for some of these little local feeder or if we going back to the 90's Hopper type routes that don't run evenings and Sundays and provide daytime shopping links too much standardisation in London which leads to certain routes being under used running around carrying fresh air or over used packed all throughout the day . Ashford & London are hardly comparable though given London's population is way higher and any minibus route would simply be swamped depending on the area - we still have a fair number of feeder routes and it should be praised that these routes now run for longer and are more frequent. What needs to be tackled is when locals start making up ridiculous reasons for not allowing bus routes to run along certain roads, not hark back to a failed 1990's policy. I don't think it was a failed policy at all, the 28 and 31 conversion for example was a great success even though it came in for a lot of criticism. The high frequency of the 'bread vans' attracted a lot of new custom to the routes and subsequently they were converted back to double deckers at a higher frequency than had been the case previously. Residents are entitled to object to buses, some objections are ridiculous and some are quite reasonable and they need to be judged individually. Certainly 'bread vans' are far less likely to be met with such objections. I think that there is plenty of potential for small buses in London on certain routes serving narrow residential roads but obviously not on trunk routes.
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Post by danorak on Feb 14, 2017 18:42:09 GMT
Ashford & London are hardly comparable though given London's population is way higher and any minibus route would simply be swamped depending on the area - we still have a fair number of feeder routes and it should be praised that these routes now run for longer and are more frequent. What needs to be tackled is when locals start making up ridiculous reasons for not allowing bus routes to run along certain roads, not hark back to a failed 1990's policy. I don't think it was a failed policy at all, the 28 and 31 conversion for example was a great success even though it came in for a lot of criticism. The high frequency of the 'bread vans' attracted a lot of new custom to the routes and subsequently they were converted back to double deckers at a higher frequency than had been the case previously. Residents are entitled to object to buses, some objections are ridiculous and some are quite reasonable and they need to be judged individually. Certainly 'bread vans' are far less likely to be met with such objections. I think that there is plenty of potential for small buses in London on certain routes serving narrow residential roads but obviously not on trunk routes. I would agree that it wasn't a failed policy - you can argue that it wasn't the right move in every case but I believe the idea of increased frequency and smaller buses set up a 'virtuous circle' that led to most of these routes growing to the point where they needed double deckers again. Also I suspect some of the later conversions of double deckers to Darts were done as a way of getting low floor buses onto routes at a time when low floor double deckers were not yet in production. There are housing estates in London where I think this could be a potential way forward. You could also envisage 'Roundabout 2' on some of the more rural or tight parts of the Orpington network. I'm sure TfL, like the rest of the industry, are watching this experiment wirh interest.
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Post by joefrombow on Feb 14, 2017 18:55:50 GMT
Can we have some little and often here in London please too that new Harold hill bus route they wanted to implement a nice few sprinters would do ok on that , and re introduce a 395 type route aswell through rotherhithe tunnel and through some unserved backstreet's aswell plenty of space I think infact for some of these little local feeder or if we going back to the 90's Hopper type routes that don't run evenings and Sundays and provide daytime shopping links too much standardisation in London which leads to certain routes being under used running around carrying fresh air or over used packed all throughout the day . Ashford & London are hardly comparable though given London's population is way higher and any minibus route would simply be swamped depending on the area - we still have a fair number of feeder routes and it should be praised that these routes now run for longer and are more frequent. What needs to be tackled is when locals start making up ridiculous reasons for not allowing bus routes to run along certain roads, not hark back to a failed 1990's policy. Yes swamped depending on the area I'm not talking about taking E200's of a route and just over bussing it with sprinters but more little local roads like the ones you would get residents complaining about and ones not so easily accessible by the average single deck with a few sprinters or even solos and say a 20 minute frequency like the Hampstead garden suburbs routes or even the 394 but on a smaller scale connect to the Stations , shops etc or places that are over bussed but under used like Blackwall DLR or Leamouth , yes it is of course a good thing we have routes that run later and longer but in some cases it's just a waste you have double deck buses running around outside peaks carrying fresh air , another thing aswell which would be good would be contracts to be won with say double decks during days but at less busier times single decks of a another routes PVR save fuel put costs down etc apart from the 357 are there any routes that have contracts like this ? I think there would be a potential there for some saving .
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Post by vjaska on Feb 14, 2017 19:06:36 GMT
Ashford & London are hardly comparable though given London's population is way higher and any minibus route would simply be swamped depending on the area - we still have a fair number of feeder routes and it should be praised that these routes now run for longer and are more frequent. What needs to be tackled is when locals start making up ridiculous reasons for not allowing bus routes to run along certain roads, not hark back to a failed 1990's policy. Yes swamped depending on the area I'm not talking about taking E200's of a route and just over bussing it with sprinters but more little local roads like the ones you would get residents complaining about and ones not so easily accessible by the average single deck with a few sprinters or even solos and say a 20 minute frequency like the Hampstead garden suburbs routes or even the 394 but on a smaller scale connect to the Stations , shops etc or places that are over bussed but under used like Blackwall DLR or Leamouth , yes it is of course a good thing we have routes that run later and longer but in some cases it's just a waste you have double deck buses running around outside peaks carrying fresh air , another thing aswell which would be good would be contracts to be won with say double decks during days but at less busier times single decks of a another routes PVR save fuel put costs down etc apart from the 357 are there any routes that have contracts like this ? I think there would be a potential there for some saving . Who said about replacing Enviro 200's with minibuses - I'm on about introducing them onto a new route particularly within inner London. Once word gets around about a useful new route, it becomes a victim of its own success and you end needing to increase capacity or frequency. Routes are always going to be quieter outside peaks because the peaks are the busiest period. Not only that but if we went back to a system where double decks get substituted for single deckers and vice versa, you end up with buses sitting around doing nothing - so that's extra buses sitting around doing nothing wasting space instead for an extra route that can make them money with buses not just sitting around most of the day.
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