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Post by sid on Oct 13, 2017 13:18:37 GMT
I note with interest that the latest Buses Magazine reports that Stagecoach have cut off peak service levels on two of the Ashford "Little and Often" routes. One of the routes has lost 5 bph which is quite a cut. I can only assume peak traffic (commuters from the station) is reasonably bouyant but off peak travel is not as strong nor as remunerative to sustain the cost of those driver wages. I believe the frequency reductions are due to happen on 19th November. I still haven't gone down to see/photograph them... I asked a driver about these cuts a few weeks ago and he knew nothing about them so we shall see?
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Post by N230UD on Oct 15, 2017 19:14:43 GMT
The new timetables for the upcoming changes are available on Traveline.
You can see reductions on both the 'Little&Often' routes, which seem to become about every 8-10 minutes. Which is still pretty good, and there are still late evening journeys.
There are also changes to some of the other local routes.
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Post by N230UD on Oct 23, 2017 10:17:50 GMT
A bit more detail - evening frequencies for the B and C will drop to every 20 minutes - fairly unsurprising as Ashford doesn't have much of a night life - although people still work in the evenings, and people still travel back from London on the high speed. So, a bit disappointing but 20-mins is still a good evening frequency outside of major cities! From November they will also be using the same minibuses on the E and G routes, but with no frequency increase. So, on those routes, I wonder if they will be branded just 'Little' rather than 'Little & Often'
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Post by sid on Oct 23, 2017 10:28:17 GMT
A bit more detail - evening frequencies for the B and C will drop to every 20 minutes - fairly unsurprising as Ashford doesn't have much of a night life - although people still work in the evenings, and people still travel back from London on the high speed. So, a bit disappointing but 20-mins is still a good evening frequency outside of major cities! From November they will also be using the same minibuses on the E and G routes, but with no frequency increase. So, on those routes, I wonder if they will be branded just 'Little' rather than 'Little & Often' Indeed most of the night time economy is out of town and I get the impression that most of the evening custom on L&O is commuters from the station. I've always thought route G would be ideal for minibuses, some tights corners on the South Willesbrough section and it's restricted to single decker anyway by the low bridge in Newton Road. A bit disappointing that there is no frequency increase though. Another use will have to be found for the Versa's, unless they are being disposed of as they are somewhat non standard for Stagecoach, they were originally supplied by KCC for route G if memory serves correctly?
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Post by vjaska on Oct 23, 2017 13:50:40 GMT
A bit more detail - evening frequencies for the B and C will drop to every 20 minutes - fairly unsurprising as Ashford doesn't have much of a night life - although people still work in the evenings, and people still travel back from London on the high speed. So, a bit disappointing but 20-mins is still a good evening frequency outside of major cities! From November they will also be using the same minibuses on the E and G routes, but with no frequency increase. So, on those routes, I wonder if they will be branded just 'Little' rather than 'Little & Often' Indeed most of the night time economy is out of town and I get the impression that most of the evening custom on L&O is commuters from the station. I've always thought route G would be ideal for minibuses, some tights corners on the South Willesbrough section and it's restricted to single decker anyway by the low bridge in Newton Road. A bit disappointing that there is no frequency increase though. Another use will have to be found for the Versa's, unless they are being disposed of as they are somewhat non standard for Stagecoach, they were originally supplied by KCC for route G if memory serves correctly? Stagecoach have a number of Optare single deckers in other parts of the UK so unless there’s a particular reason to dispose of them, I suspect they would transfer elsewhere.
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Post by N230UD on Oct 27, 2017 14:07:07 GMT
A bit more detail - evening frequencies for the B and C will drop to every 20 minutes - fairly unsurprising as Ashford doesn't have much of a night life - although people still work in the evenings, and people still travel back from London on the high speed. So, a bit disappointing but 20-mins is still a good evening frequency outside of major cities! From November they will also be using the same minibuses on the E and G routes, but with no frequency increase. So, on those routes, I wonder if they will be branded just 'Little' rather than 'Little & Often' Indeed most of the night time economy is out of town and I get the impression that most of the evening custom on L&O is commuters from the station. I've always thought route G would be ideal for minibuses, some tights corners on the South Willesbrough section and it's restricted to single decker anyway by the low bridge in Newton Road. A bit disappointing that there is no frequency increase though. Another use will have to be found for the Versa's, unless they are being disposed of as they are somewhat non standard for Stagecoach, they were originally supplied by KCC for route G if memory serves correctly? Those Versas have been appearing on other routes, such as the 1 to Canterbury, 666 to Faversham, 10X to Maidstone, so another use might be found for them at Ashford, or elsewhere in Kent.
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Post by sid on Nov 21, 2017 13:17:40 GMT
Indeed most of the night time economy is out of town and I get the impression that most of the evening custom on L&O is commuters from the station. I've always thought route G would be ideal for minibuses, some tights corners on the South Willesbrough section and it's restricted to single decker anyway by the low bridge in Newton Road. A bit disappointing that there is no frequency increase though. Another use will have to be found for the Versa's, unless they are being disposed of as they are somewhat non standard for Stagecoach, they were originally supplied by KCC for route G if memory serves correctly? Those Versas have been appearing on other routes, such as the 1 to Canterbury, 666 to Faversham, 10X to Maidstone, so another use might be found for them at Ashford, or elsewhere in Kent. The two Versa's have moved to Thanet.
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Post by N230UD on Nov 21, 2017 23:02:48 GMT
Those Versas have been appearing on other routes, such as the 1 to Canterbury, 666 to Faversham, 10X to Maidstone, so another use might be found for them at Ashford, or elsewhere in Kent. The two Versa's have moved to Thanet. Yes, it'll be interesting to see which routes they end up on. I suspect the 9 from Ramsgate to Canterbury.
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Post by N230UD on Apr 13, 2018 0:07:32 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Apr 13, 2018 0:58:19 GMT
Exactly why converting these sort of routes to minibuses just doesn't work - really, these sort of vehicles would be best used connecting the villages who have lost their services with a demand response service instead.
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Post by sid on Apr 13, 2018 5:53:56 GMT
I think these routes have become a victim of their own success, they've attracted more customers and now bigger buses can be justified, the same as happened in London with routes like the 28,31 and C2.
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Post by schedcomp on Apr 13, 2018 6:20:39 GMT
Exactly why converting these sort of routes to minibuses just doesn't work - really, these sort of vehicles would be best used connecting the villages who have lost their services with a demand response service instead. I rode these routes a few months ago just after Stagecoach had reduced the Saturday frequency. Several of the estate roads they go down are most suited to these small buses. Even a Solo will require quite a bit of careful manouvering to get round, slowing the service. That being said they weren't particularly comfortable with little leg room even for me at 5'8". On one route where frequency was much less than MF we were really crammed on like Sardines. One of the real benefits of mini buses was always the step up in frequency which makes buses more convenient. Eventually they become victims of their own success (as Sid mentioned) and need replacing with larger vehicles at similar headways.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 13, 2018 9:31:29 GMT
Exactly why converting these sort of routes to minibuses just doesn't work - really, these sort of vehicles would be best used connecting the villages who have lost their services with a demand response service instead. I rode these routes a few months ago just after Stagecoach had reduced the Saturday frequency. Several of the estate roads they go down are most suited to these small buses. Even a Solo will require quite a bit of careful manouvering to get round, slowing the service. That being said they weren't particularly comfortable with little leg room even for me at 5'8". On one route where frequency was much less than MF we were really crammed on like Sardines. One of the real benefits of mini buses was always the step up in frequency which makes buses more convenient. Eventually they become victims of their own success (as Sid mentioned) and need replacing with larger vehicles at similar headways. Many operators have shown that they don't need to resort to decreasing the capacity by using inadequate vehicles in order to boost patronage. The examples of the 28, 31 & 328 are hardly great examples to use - these have always been decker routes and yet when realised that the minibuses were woefully inadequate, they still brought two more batches of equally woeful single deckers before succumbing and rightfully reinstating deckers. Minibuses do have their place but not on routes with large passenger numbers - they should be ultilised on smaller routes using narrow roads and/or a demand responsive service to serve communities who have lost vital, important links.
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Post by sid on Apr 13, 2018 10:39:31 GMT
I rode these routes a few months ago just after Stagecoach had reduced the Saturday frequency. Several of the estate roads they go down are most suited to these small buses. Even a Solo will require quite a bit of careful manouvering to get round, slowing the service. That being said they weren't particularly comfortable with little leg room even for me at 5'8". On one route where frequency was much less than MF we were really crammed on like Sardines. One of the real benefits of mini buses was always the step up in frequency which makes buses more convenient. Eventually they become victims of their own success (as Sid mentioned) and need replacing with larger vehicles at similar headways. Many operators have shown that they don't need to resort to decreasing the capacity by using inadequate vehicles in order to boost patronage. The examples of the 28, 31 & 328 are hardly great examples to use - these have always been decker routes and yet when realised that the minibuses were woefully inadequate, they still brought two more batches of equally woeful single deckers before succumbing and rightfully reinstating deckers. Minibuses do have their place but not on routes with large passenger numbers - they should be ultilised on smaller routes using narrow roads and/or a demand responsive service to serve communities who have lost vital, important links. They actually offer an increased capacity, higher frequency, more seats per hour which hopefully attracts more custom and at a time of falling patronage maybe TfL should be considering such innovative ideas, the R3,4 and 6 in Orpington perhaps? I think the Mercedes Sprinters are reasonably comfortable, I acknowledge that leg room isn't great but I didn't find it any worse than on many larger buses and obviously most passenger journeys are fairly short.
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Post by busaholic on Apr 13, 2018 22:41:58 GMT
Many operators have shown that they don't need to resort to decreasing the capacity by using inadequate vehicles in order to boost patronage. The examples of the 28, 31 & 328 are hardly great examples to use - these have always been decker routes and yet when realised that the minibuses were woefully inadequate, they still brought two more batches of equally woeful single deckers before succumbing and rightfully reinstating deckers. Minibuses do have their place but not on routes with large passenger numbers - they should be ultilised on smaller routes using narrow roads and/or a demand responsive service to serve communities who have lost vital, important links. They actually offer an increased capacity, higher frequency, more seats per hour which hopefully attracts more custom and at a time of falling patronage maybe TfL should be considering such innovative ideas, the R3,4 and 6 in Orpington perhaps? I think the Mercedes Sprinters are reasonably comfortable, I acknowledge that leg room isn't great but I didn't find it any worse than on many larger buses and obviously most passenger journeys are fairly short. I was working in LT's Traffic Management Office when the first minibus routes were introduced; the B1,C11,P4 and W9. Virtually nobody was surprised at the success of the C11, and I wasn't surprised that the P4 came good, especially once the resistance to it being extended from Brockley Rise to Lewisham was broken. The W9 was less certain, but showed promise (and it certainly passed the test of time) but the B1 was a disappointment. I suspect that today, with the decline of the 161 and a lot fewer buses between Bromley and Chislehurst Village than in 227 days, it would be much better used. It should also have gone to Eltham (Well Hall) Station imo.
At the time of the Roundabout routes being introduced in Orpington in 1986 I was a shopkeeper in the Walnuts Centre. I travelled on the R1 on its first Monday of operation from St Mary's Hospital in Sidcup to Orpington and, even allowing for the novelty and confusion, thought it was a big mistake to put minibuses on that corridor, although I could understand the rationale behind the other routes. The 51 had been virtually destroyed at the time by the closure of Sidcup Garage and subsequent re-allocation to Swanley using clapped-out ex-Strathclyde Atlanteans., so the R1 came under even more pressure.
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