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Post by capitalomnibus on May 3, 2017 10:53:40 GMT
It would flop, Regent street would pick up. It would just end up like Narrow Way in Hackney. The shops furthest from the stations itself would suffer badly. I really don't understand this negativity? Pedestrianised shopping centres are in vogue allover the country, why should Oxford Street be any different? There will be no more jostling along overcrowded pavements whilst breathing in traffic fumes and Crossrail will whisk people straight there with no more need to change onto a packed tube. But they are not as long as Oxford Street though. Oxford Street isn't just full of shops, there are many other types of businesses there. I really don't see the overcrowded pavements, apart from the station entrance/exits. What on earth makes you think Crossrail would not be full. I would not be surprised it is NOT full most of the time as they are deliberately gearing most other transport forums into coaxing people into using it. Same way they did with reducing the 38 and 242 when the London Overground (East London/North London line) started.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 3, 2017 10:57:18 GMT
I really don't understand this negativity? Pedestrianised shopping centres are in vogue allover the country, why should Oxford Street be any different? There will be no more jostling along overcrowded pavements whilst breathing in traffic fumes and Crossrail will whisk people straight there with no more need to change onto a packed tube. Oh if life was that simple - once Crossrail is up and running and people become aware of what benefits it brings, it will be become overcrowded soon enough. Shoppers will continue to breath in fumes especially if they're coming in by bus. The only benefit is extra pedestrian space and that's it. Pedestrianised shopping centres used to be in vogue years ago but I doubt they are anymore - both Mitcham & Hayes have or are currently bringing traffic back to their pedestrianised areas. They are so yesteryear. Internet shopping is killing it off. With lack of access to Oxford Street, it would further kill it. I would rather go somewhere like Westfield, Bluewater or Lakeside where it is covered, has relaxing areas and more secure. Plus you can park there. Cant say the same for Oxford Street. I would not even waste my time to go down there for shopping. I have not in years.
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Post by sid on May 3, 2017 11:08:24 GMT
Oh if life was that simple - once Crossrail is up and running and people become aware of what benefits it brings, it will be become overcrowded soon enough. Shoppers will continue to breath in fumes especially if they're coming in by bus. The only benefit is extra pedestrian space and that's it. Pedestrianised shopping centres used to be in vogue years ago but I doubt they are anymore - both Mitcham & Hayes have or are currently bringing traffic back to their pedestrianised areas. They are so yesteryear. Internet shopping is killing it off. With lack of access to Oxford Street, it would further kill it. I would rather go somewhere like Westfield, Bluewater or Lakeside where it is covered, has relaxing areas and more secure. Plus you can park there. Cant say the same for Oxford Street. I would not even waste my time to go down there for shopping. I have not in years.
You can't park anywhere near Oxford Street now without spending a small fortune so that's nothing new. I suspect Oxford Street has been losing custom to Westfield in particular as it is.
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Post by sid on May 3, 2017 11:11:04 GMT
I really don't understand this negativity? Pedestrianised shopping centres are in vogue allover the country, why should Oxford Street be any different? There will be no more jostling along overcrowded pavements whilst breathing in traffic fumes and Crossrail will whisk people straight there with no more need to change onto a packed tube. But they are not as long as Oxford Street though. Oxford Street isn't just full of shops, there are many other types of businesses there. I really don't see the overcrowded pavements, apart from the station entrance/exits. What on earth makes you think Crossrail would not be full. I would not be surprised it is NOT full most of the time as they are deliberately gearing most other transport forums into coaxing people into using it. Same way they did with reducing the 38 and 242 when the London Overground (East London/North London line) started.
Crossrail will obviously be busy but it will reduce the strain on the Central Line in particular.
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Post by stuckonthe486 on May 3, 2017 11:25:52 GMT
It would flop, Regent street would pick up. It would just end up like Narrow Way in Hackney. The shops furthest from the stations itself would suffer badly. I really don't understand this negativity? Pedestrianised shopping centres are in vogue allover the country, why should Oxford Street be any different? There will be no more jostling along overcrowded pavements whilst breathing in traffic fumes and Crossrail will whisk people straight there with no more need to change onto a packed tube. I'm the same - pedestrianisation could change Oxford Street dramatically and for the better, if it's done right. If done well, the only fly in the ointment is if the economy goes south. And I would expect Regent Street to follow too. But this has all got to fit in with the wider context of central London. And there's little sign of any courage from City Hall in attempting to reduce the number of private cars in central London, and particularly the number of private hire vehicles. What's the vision as for how buses, deliveries, taxis and cycles will move around a wider West End that prioritises pedestrians on its most important streets? It all feels a bit piecemeal, when what's needed is a clearer, bigger vision.
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Post by astock5000 on May 3, 2017 11:46:01 GMT
Pedestrianised town centres are "old hat" and were nearly always linked with the removal of bus services, the creation of new car parks and new ring roads in those towns and cities where it has been done. That's a good point that pedestrianisation is usually combined with ring roads. My local town, Watford, has a partially pedestrianised High Street (apparently the plan was to remove all traffic from the whole length but it was never done), a ring road around the southern part of the town centre and a dual carriageway connecting that to the town hall roundabout at the north end. The roads in the centre which aren't pedestrianised (Clarendon Road, part of High Street, Market Street and King Street) are one way but still enable most buses to serve stops right in the middle of the town. The other services are mainly those from Watford Junction towards Bushey, for which there are two stops that aren't too inconvenient - one is on the ring road at the rear of where the old market was, and the offside bus lane there means people only have to cross that lane to reach the stops, while the other is at the south end of the High Street, near the station. An issue with such an arrangement is that buses from West Watford towards Watford Junction have to do a loop to serve the town centre, increasing journey times, though with many passengers boarding or alighting there I doubt many feel too inconvenienced. But I'd say the main problem is that the A4008 (which links to the A41 and M1) is the only large road in or out of the town, so while the ring road manages most of the time, congestion is common on roads such as St Albans Road, Rickmansworth Road and around Bushey Arches. All the multi-storey car parks and the large amount of parking at Watford Junction don't help with this. At least the A41, A405, M1 and M25 provide better routes for long distance traffic passing through the area. So what has all this got to do with Oxford Street? The situation in Oxford Street is a bit different to many streets which have been pedestrianised in other towns as it is impossible to increase capacity of the roads surrounding it to take the additional traffic, of which a significant proportion is buses. The only option then is to make existing streets one way but that is less effective and is now very much out of favour. Sending all buses down Wigmore Street appears to be unacceptable but this leaves a large gap with no main through east/west route for buses between Marylebone Road and Piccadilly. And that brings me on to another difference between the west end and 'other towns and cities'. As I mentioned above in places such as Watford most people in the town are heading to or from the centre or the railway station, and those who are travelling longer distances past the town can in a lot of cases avoid it completely using bypasses etc. Central London however is a massive heavily built up area with shops, railway termini and all kinds of other attractions spread around. This means not only is it not possible to construct bypasses of a street you wish to pedestrianise, but there will always be plenty of people who need to pass through one area to access another. While it may be possible to pedestrianise Oxford Street and still have plenty of bus services passing or terminating close by at Marble Arch etc, apart from the issue of the length of the street itself it could end up seriously inconveniencing passengers who have no reason to visit Oxford Street but need to pass through on their way elsewhere. In my opinion it might not be too bad to remove some bus routes from Oxford Street, as is already being done, as long as this only results in one extra change of bus for most journeys, and putting restrictions on all the taxis using the street would make it more pleasant but there is no way that would happen. Full pedestrianisation seems inevitable but I just don't see how it will work well for the west end as a whole.
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Post by redexpress on May 3, 2017 12:11:59 GMT
It would flop, Regent street would pick up. It would just end up like Narrow Way in Hackney. The shops furthest from the stations itself would suffer badly. I really don't understand this negativity? Pedestrianised shopping centres are in vogue allover the country, why should Oxford Street be any different? There will be no more jostling along overcrowded pavements whilst breathing in traffic fumes and Crossrail will whisk people straight there with no more need to change onto a packed tube. Crossrail will "whisk" people there if they happen to live near a Crossrail station. For those of us that don't, we'll still need to use the packed tube - I can't see Crossrail making any dent in the Victoria Line loadings. Have you seen the queues to get into Oxford Circus station in the peaks? That's why we need buses to provide part of the capacity in the area. The whole area's connectivity is being sacrificed to feed this fantasy property-developer-brochure vision that the retailers have of Oxford Street. As others have said, there's much more to this area than just the big shops on Oxford Street - there are all sorts of offices and other businesses, as well as a fair few residents (and these residents don't all fit the stereotype of the megarich taxi / chauffeur-driven car user).
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Post by sid on May 3, 2017 13:34:42 GMT
I really don't understand this negativity? Pedestrianised shopping centres are in vogue allover the country, why should Oxford Street be any different? There will be no more jostling along overcrowded pavements whilst breathing in traffic fumes and Crossrail will whisk people straight there with no more need to change onto a packed tube. Crossrail will "whisk" people there if they happen to live near a Crossrail station. For those of us that don't, we'll still need to use the packed tube - I can't see Crossrail making any dent in the Victoria Line loadings. Have you seen the queues to get into Oxford Circus station in the peaks? That's why we need buses to provide part of the capacity in the area. The whole area's connectivity is being sacrificed to feed property-developethis fantasy r-brochure vision that the retailers have of Oxford Street. As others have said, there's much more to this area than just the big shops on Oxford Street - there are all sorts of offices and other businesses, as well as a fair few residents (and these residents don't all fit the stereotype of the megarich taxi / chauffeur-driven car user). The fantasy is this notion that buses that are generally not well used at the moment, and will be even less so when Crossrail opens, are the be all and end all. Obviously there will still be buses at either end of the pedestrianized area. And if the Victoria Line is jam packed then Crossrail (and the capacity elsewhere freed up by it) will give alternative options even for journies to the north or south changing where necessary.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 3, 2017 13:48:54 GMT
Crossrail will "whisk" people there if they happen to live near a Crossrail station. For those of us that don't, we'll still need to use the packed tube - I can't see Crossrail making any dent in the Victoria Line loadings. Have you seen the queues to get into Oxford Circus station in the peaks? That's why we need buses to provide part of the capacity in the area. The whole area's connectivity is being sacrificed to feed property-developethis fantasy r-brochure vision that the retailers have of Oxford Street. As others have said, there's much more to this area than just the big shops on Oxford Street - there are all sorts of offices and other businesses, as well as a fair few residents (and these residents don't all fit the stereotype of the megarich taxi / chauffeur-driven car user). The fantasy is this notion that buses that are generally not well used at the moment, and will be even less so when Crossrail opens, are the be all and end all. Obviously there will still be buses at either end of the pedestrianized area. And if the Victoria Line is jam packed then Crossrail (and the capacity elsewhere freed up by it) will give alternative options even for journies to the north or south changing where necessary. I don't see Crossrail providing an alternative path to Walthamstow or Brixton. Personally I think the way this is being planned is what's going to hit the final nail in the coffin, it seems like it was a move to just shut the media up with no actual thought gone into it. Personally I'd have done some market research asking the opinions of all the shops along Oxford Street as well as asking for pedestrian opinions before the plan got the go ahead. From my view a lot of people end up going shopping on Oxford Street as a bus happens to take them through it, I've seen countless times where people are on a bus, see a shop they like then get off to go and have a look around. I dread to see the crowds that will fire up at Tottenham Court Road after pedestrianisation has taken place, not to mention Marble Arch.
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Post by sid on May 3, 2017 14:01:38 GMT
The fantasy is this notion that buses that are generally not well used at the moment, and will be even less so when Crossrail opens, are the be all and end all. Obviously there will still be buses at either end of the pedestrianized area. And if the Victoria Line is jam packed then Crossrail (and the capacity elsewhere freed up by it) will give alternative options even for journies to the north or south changing where necessary. I don't see Crossrail providing an alternative path to Walthamstow or Brixton. Personally I think the way this is being planned is what's going to hit the final nail in the coffin, it seems like it was a move to just shut the media up with no actual thought gone into it. Personally I'd have done some market research asking the opinions of all the shops along Oxford Street as well as asking for pedestrian opinions before the plan got the go ahead. From my view a lot of people end up going shopping on Oxford Street as a bus happens to take them through it, I've seen countless times where people are on a bus, see a shop they like then get off to go and have a look around. I dread to see the crowds that will fire up at Tottenham Court Road after pedestrianisation has taken place, not to mention Marble Arch. Walthamstow changing at Liverpool Street would be a reasonable alternative if the Victoria Line was stuffed.
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Post by Whitherminter on May 3, 2017 14:20:52 GMT
Crossrail will "whisk" people there if they happen to live near a Crossrail station. For those of us that don't, we'll still need to use the packed tube - I can't see Crossrail making any dent in the Victoria Line loadings. Have you seen the queues to get into Oxford Circus station in the peaks? That's why we need buses to provide part of the capacity in the area. The whole area's connectivity is being sacrificed to feed property-developethis fantasy r-brochure vision that the retailers have of Oxford Street. As others have said, there's much more to this area than just the big shops on Oxford Street - there are all sorts of offices and other businesses, as well as a fair few residents (and these residents don't all fit the stereotype of the megarich taxi / chauffeur-driven car user). The fantasy is this notion that buses that are generally not well used at the moment, and will be even less so when Crossrail opens, are the be all and end all. Obviously there will still be buses at either end of the pedestrianized area. And if the Victoria Line is jam packed then Crossrail (and the capacity elsewhere freed up by it) will give alternative options even for journies to the north or south changing where necessary. You may not have noticed, but the Victoria Line & Crossrail don't actually share a station so I doubt a train link going East to West will provide alternatives for a tube going North to South. It's a shame that those in the higher sector aren't aware of how bus travel in Central London is actually used, as they mostly see numbers and figures on an excel sheet instead of seeing people waiting for a bus on a cold rainy day. Many pedestrianised areas outside of London are successful as using a car is actually possible with a lot less traffic, or there's another mode of transport such as trams. I'd just like to know how this could affect the night life on Oxford Street. Maybe someone travelling from Bow or Southall don't want to be chucked off at the end of the street late at night and have to while the mile road.
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Post by sid on May 3, 2017 14:39:21 GMT
The fantasy is this notion that buses that are generally not well used at the moment, and will be even less so when Crossrail opens, are the be all and end all. Obviously there will still be buses at either end of the pedestrianized area. And if the Victoria Line is jam packed then Crossrail (and the capacity elsewhere freed up by it) will give alternative options even for journies to the north or south changing where necessary. You may not have noticed, but the Victoria Line & Crossrail don't actually share a station so I doubt a train link going East to West will provide alternatives for a tube going North to South. It's a shame that those in the higher sector aren't aware of how bus travel in Central London is actually used, as they mostly see numbers and figures on an excel sheet instead of seeing people waiting for a bus on a cold rainy day. Many pedestrianised areas outside of London are successful as using a car is actually possible with a lot less traffic, or there's another mode of transport such as trams. I'd just like to know how this could affect the night life on Oxford Street. Maybe someone travelling from Bow or Southall don't want to be chucked off at the end of the street late at night and have to while the mile road. See post above for alternative route to Walthamstow. What exactly is it that you think those in the 'higher sector' are unaware of?
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Post by John tuthill on May 3, 2017 15:13:36 GMT
The fantasy is this notion that buses that are generally not well used at the moment, and will be even less so when Crossrail opens, are the be all and end all. Obviously there will still be buses at either end of the pedestrianized area. And if the Victoria Line is jam packed then Crossrail (and the capacity elsewhere freed up by it) will give alternative options even for journies to the north or south changing where necessary. I don't see Crossrail providing an alternative path to Walthamstow or Brixton. Personally I think the way this is being planned is what's going to hit the final nail in the coffin, it seems like it was a move to just shut the media up with no actual thought gone into it. Personally I'd have done some market research asking the opinions of all the shops along Oxford Street as well as asking for pedestrian opinions before the plan got the go ahead. From my view a lot of people end up going shopping on Oxford Street as a bus happens to take them through it, I've seen countless times where people are on a bus, see a shop they like then get off to go and have a look around. I dread to see the crowds that will fire up at Tottenham Court Road after pedestrianisation has taken place, not to mention Marble Arch. Crossrail will certainly have something to live up to, it sounds like it's the panacea for all Londons transport problems
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Post by Whitherminter on May 3, 2017 18:59:44 GMT
You may not have noticed, but the Victoria Line & Crossrail don't actually share a station so I doubt a train link going East to West will provide alternatives for a tube going North to South. It's a shame that those in the higher sector aren't aware of how bus travel in Central London is actually used, as they mostly see numbers and figures on an excel sheet instead of seeing people waiting for a bus on a cold rainy day. Many pedestrianised areas outside of London are successful as using a car is actually possible with a lot less traffic, or there's another mode of transport such as trams. I'd just like to know how this could affect the night life on Oxford Street. Maybe someone travelling from Bow or Southall don't want to be chucked off at the end of the street late at night and have to while the mile road. See post above for alternative route to Walthamstow. What exactly is it that you think those in the 'higher sector' are unaware of? So your solution is to waste time by getting on one busy train to a busy station to get on another busy train? Sounds useful, thanks. I understand saving money is a priority at the moment, however the only people coming up with these solutions are many who don't actually use a bus. Therefore what they see on paper may not be what it actually is. Had 'those in the higher sector' consulted the public on their opinion perhaps users could have put more ideas on the table. Now people are just going to have to "wait and see" what'll happen to a service they regularly rely on under the excuse of crossrail with fix everthing. TfL making consultations and going through with it regardless on the grounds of saving money could potentially make them lose even more money by people switching to other modes of transport.The fact I have to explain this is quite worrying.
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Post by sid on May 3, 2017 19:13:03 GMT
See post above for alternative route to Walthamstow. What exactly is it that you think those in the 'higher sector' are unaware of? So your solution is to waste time by getting on one busy train to a busy station to get on another busy train? Sounds useful, thanks. I understand saving money is a priority at the moment, however the only people coming up with these solutions are many who don't actually use a bus. Therefore what they see on paper may not be what it actually is. Had 'those in the higher sector' consulted the public on their opinion perhaps users could have put more ideas on the table. Now people are just going to have to "wait and see" what'll happen to a service they regularly rely on under the excuse of crossrail with fix everthing. TfL making consultations and going through with it regardless on the grounds of saving money could potentially make them lose even more money by people switching to other modes of transport.The fact I have to explain this is quite worrying. My solution is an alternative route to Walthamstow if the Victoria Line is inaccessible. What is worrying is that you haven't actually explained anything, you have just posted a load of waffle to put it bluntly.
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