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Post by busman on Oct 19, 2018 16:53:07 GMT
Is the right answer. The consultation is an utter farce. We all know this is going ahead in its entirety regardless of what any bus users say. It will only be real political pain for the Mayor that will force any change of mind. It's not the right answer, we all know that a consultation is just that, it's not a referendum, and some people seem to have trouble accepting the result of them but that's another subject. We all have a choice as to whether we reply to said consultation, personally I don't bother. TfL show complete disdain for respondents to their “consultations”. I think it’s absolutely right that passengers seek intervention from their elected representatives. That’s the only method that may influence the outcome. Write to your councils, local MP’s and London Assembly Member and do not give this consultation the time of day. You can site the recent 25 results and Elizabeth Line results as evidence of TfL’s dismissive attitude. It took lobbying of Westminster Council to bring down the silly Oxford Street pedestrianisation idea. Something similar needs to happen for this consultation.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 19, 2018 17:03:11 GMT
Is the right answer. The consultation is an utter farce. We all know this is going ahead in its entirety regardless of what any bus users say. It will only be real political pain for the Mayor that will force any change of mind. It's not the right answer, we all know that a consultation is just that, it's not a referendum, and some people seem to have trouble accepting the result of them but that's another subject. We all have a choice as to whether we reply to said consultation, personally I don't bother. If TfL are not even asking people if they agree or disagree with the proposals then the "consultation" is not worth the web space it is loaded on. That is a backwards step from where we have been in the past and that was hardly an exemplar of best practice. And just so we are completely clear at no point did I say or even suggest that a consultation is a referendum but this country can't even run those properly. Of course we all have a choice as to whether we respond - that is self evidently clear and hardly needs restating. As you clearly agree with about 98% of TfL's proposals for cuts then I am hardly shocked you don't respond to consultations.
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Post by sid on Oct 19, 2018 17:29:33 GMT
It's not the right answer, we all know that a consultation is just that, it's not a referendum, and some people seem to have trouble accepting the result of them but that's another subject. We all have a choice as to whether we reply to said consultation, personally I don't bother. TfL show complete disdain for respondents to their “consultations”. I think it’s absolutely right that passengers seek intervention from their elected representatives. That’s the only method that may influence the outcome. Write to your councils, local MP’s and London Assembly Member and do not give this consultation the time of day. You can site the recent 25 results and Elizabeth Line results as evidence of TfL’s dismissive attitude. It took lobbying of Westminster Council to bring down the silly Oxford Street pedestrianisation idea. Something similar needs to happen for this consultation. Consultations are what they are, I don't see any point in them and so I don't respond to them, obviously it's up to each individual what they do. I don't think lobbying MP's and the like is likely to change very much and I don't think the Oxford Street pedestrianisation was at all silly and WCC are only interested in local residents rat runs not being blocked off and couldn't care less about bus users. I suspect buses will be removed from Oxford Street at some point anyway and we'll end up with a half baked mess that doesn't really benefit anybody. I think the removal of the 25 from Oxford Circus has been inevitable from the outset although it could at least still go to Holborn Station or TCR.
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Post by ronnie on Oct 19, 2018 17:55:48 GMT
TfL show complete disdain for respondents to their “consultations”. I think it’s absolutely right that passengers seek intervention from their elected representatives. That’s the only method that may influence the outcome. Write to your councils, local MP’s and London Assembly Member and do not give this consultation the time of day. You can site the recent 25 results and Elizabeth Line results as evidence of TfL’s dismissive attitude. It took lobbying of Westminster Council to bring down the silly Oxford Street pedestrianisation idea. Something similar needs to happen for this consultation. Consultations are what they are, I don't see any point in them and so I don't respond to them, obviously it's up to each individual what they do. I don't think lobbying MP's and the like is likely to change very much and I don't think the Oxford Street pedestrianisation was at all silly and WCC are only interested in local residents rat runs not being blocked off and couldn't care less about bus users. I suspect buses will be removed from Oxford Street at some point anyway and we'll end up with a half baked mess that doesn't really benefit anybody. I think the removal of the 25 from Oxford Circus has been inevitable from the outset although it could at least still go to Holborn Station or TCR. I know I am sounding like a broken record but having done the 25 end to end recently, the bus gets ridiculously crowded. Even with a 25 right ahead (which was also jammed), both buses were leaving passengers behind before we even reached st pauls (from ox circus). There is absolutely no shortage of demand on the route! My bus was 80% full by holborn station (no seats on upper deck)
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Post by sid on Oct 19, 2018 17:59:57 GMT
Consultations are what they are, I don't see any point in them and so I don't respond to them, obviously it's up to each individual what they do. I don't think lobbying MP's and the like is likely to change very much and I don't think the Oxford Street pedestrianisation was at all silly and WCC are only interested in local residents rat runs not being blocked off and couldn't care less about bus users. I suspect buses will be removed from Oxford Street at some point anyway and we'll end up with a half baked mess that doesn't really benefit anybody. I think the removal of the 25 from Oxford Circus has been inevitable from the outset although it could at least still go to Holborn Station or TCR. I know I am sounding like a broken record but having done the 25 end to end recently, the bus gets ridiculously crowded. Even with a 25 right ahead (which was also jammed), both buses were leaving passengers behind before we even reached st pauls (from ox circus). There is absolutely no shortage of demand on the route! My bus was 80% full by holborn station (no seats on upper deck) But the demand will inevitably be reduced when Crossrail opens.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 19, 2018 18:14:38 GMT
I know I am sounding like a broken record but having done the 25 end to end recently, the bus gets ridiculously crowded. Even with a 25 right ahead (which was also jammed), both buses were leaving passengers behind before we even reached st pauls (from ox circus). There is absolutely no shortage of demand on the route! My bus was 80% full by holborn station (no seats on upper deck) But the demand will inevitably be reduced when Crossrail opens. The route already parallels the Central Line, if anyone wants to use a tube line they're probably more likely to use that instead. Then you have the TfL Rail out East which is already operational and that doesn't seem to have impacted crowds on the 25, or 86 for that matter. I don't see how this would change dramatically when Crossrail opens. People who currently use the 25 clearly use the 25 over the tube or TfL Rail for a reason and I don't see this reason changing for many. Not to mention the route is being cut on the 1st of December, a week before Crossrail was meant to be open and now it's going to be nowhere near the time Crossrail is opening.
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Post by 15002 on Oct 19, 2018 18:33:51 GMT
But the demand will inevitably be reduced when Crossrail opens. The route already parallels the Central Line, if anyone wants to use a tube line they're probably more likely to use that instead. Then you have the TfL Rail out East which is already operational and that doesn't seem to have impacted crowds on the 25, or 86 for that matter. I don't see how this would change dramatically when Crossrail opens. People who currently use the 25 clearly use the 25 over the tube or TfL Rail for a reason and I don't see this reason changing for many. Not to mention the route is being cut on the 1st of December, a week before Crossrail was meant to be open and now it's going to be nowhere near the time Crossrail is opening. And not everyone can afford to use train, hence why they use the 25 due to buses being cheaper. Also the Central Line is very packed, and as you said Crossrail is being delayed... so pretty much this change is a disastrous one and won’t do people any good that uses trains to commute alongside people who use the 25.
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Post by sid on Oct 19, 2018 18:50:04 GMT
But the demand will inevitably be reduced when Crossrail opens. The route already parallels the Central Line, if anyone wants to use a tube line they're probably more likely to use that instead. Then you have the TfL Rail out East which is already operational and that doesn't seem to have impacted crowds on the 25, or 86 for that matter. I don't see how this would change dramatically when Crossrail opens. People who currently use the 25 clearly use the 25 over the tube or TfL Rail for a reason and I don't see this reason changing for many. Not to mention the route is being cut on the 1st of December, a week before Crossrail was meant to be open and now it's going to be nowhere near the time Crossrail is opening. There is no mention on www.londonbusroutes.net/changes.htm of it happening on December 1st. Obviously there will be a lot more capacity on the Central Line when Crossrail opens and TfL will expect people to make use of that.
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Post by ronnie on Oct 19, 2018 18:56:07 GMT
The route already parallels the Central Line, if anyone wants to use a tube line they're probably more likely to use that instead. Then you have the TfL Rail out East which is already operational and that doesn't seem to have impacted crowds on the 25, or 86 for that matter. I don't see how this would change dramatically when Crossrail opens. People who currently use the 25 clearly use the 25 over the tube or TfL Rail for a reason and I don't see this reason changing for many. Not to mention the route is being cut on the 1st of December, a week before Crossrail was meant to be open and now it's going to be nowhere near the time Crossrail is opening. And not everyone can afford to use train, hence why they use the 25 due to buses being cheaper. Also the Central Line is very packed, and as you said Crossrail is being delayed... so pretty much this change is a disastrous one and won’t do people any good that uses trains to commute alongside people who use the 25. Plus at Stratford the 86 right in front of us got filled up almost completely. Then despite our bus being quite crowded (although not as much as before), the rest made a beeline for the one I was on till it became quite full as well
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Post by ronnie on Oct 19, 2018 18:57:00 GMT
I know I am sounding like a broken record but having done the 25 end to end recently, the bus gets ridiculously crowded. Even with a 25 right ahead (which was also jammed), both buses were leaving passengers behind before we even reached st pauls (from ox circus). There is absolutely no shortage of demand on the route! My bus was 80% full by holborn station (no seats on upper deck) But the demand will inevitably be reduced when Crossrail opens. If there’s one route where demand is unlikely to go down, it’s the 25
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 19, 2018 18:58:16 GMT
I'm a big fan of the 25 and also don't agree with the cut. Weekends and evening the route will have no purpose west of Aldgate whereas at present loading between Aldgate and Oxo are still high at weekends with taking people into the west end.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 19, 2018 19:05:33 GMT
The route already parallels the Central Line, if anyone wants to use a tube line they're probably more likely to use that instead. Then you have the TfL Rail out East which is already operational and that doesn't seem to have impacted crowds on the 25, or 86 for that matter. I don't see how this would change dramatically when Crossrail opens. People who currently use the 25 clearly use the 25 over the tube or TfL Rail for a reason and I don't see this reason changing for many. Not to mention the route is being cut on the 1st of December, a week before Crossrail was meant to be open and now it's going to be nowhere near the time Crossrail is opening. There is no mention on www.londonbusroutes.net/changes.htm of it happening on December 1st. Obviously there will be a lot more capacity on the Central Line when Crossrail opens and TfL will expect people to make use of that. Trident has already confirmed that the cut will take place on the 1st of December, It's been said before Mr Munster is a busy individual and doesn't spend 24/7 sat at his desk updating his website
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Post by sid on Oct 19, 2018 19:08:27 GMT
There is no mention on www.londonbusroutes.net/changes.htm of it happening on December 1st. Obviously there will be a lot more capacity on the Central Line when Crossrail opens and TfL will expect people to make use of that. Trident has already confirmed that the cut will take place on the 1st of December, It's been said before Mr Munster is a busy individual and doesn't spend 24/7 sat at his desk updating his website Everything else on his site seems up to date, but no clearly the change shouldn't go ahead until Crossrail opens.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 19, 2018 19:21:19 GMT
I wish the 452 was so dependant on needing the buses off the 25 otherwise it may have been able to be delayed longer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2018 20:01:39 GMT
Trident has already confirmed that the cut will take place on the 1st of December, It's been said before Mr Munster is a busy individual and doesn't spend 24/7 sat at his desk updating his website Everything else on his site seems up to date, but no clearly the change shouldn't go ahead until Crossrail opens. I wonder if this could backfire on TfL and they end up having to make a U turn if buses are leaving passengers behind a bit like route 343?
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