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Post by Busboy105 on Aug 5, 2022 22:03:14 GMT
That's crazy when the 427 doesn't stop near those stations Doesn't the proposed 427 routing actually serve Southall Station? It does but they have it down as Southall, Merrick Road
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Aug 6, 2022 19:37:11 GMT
That's crazy when the 427 doesn't stop near those stations TfL data must that a significant number of passengers will want to travel to the Lizzie line at Southall instead of connecting to the Central Line at Ealing Broadway. If that happens, we can expect freed up capacity on the 607. Also TfL think that fewer people will travel through Ealing to Ealing Broadway, instead choosing to go via their nearest station at Hanwell or West Ealing. Will remain to be seen if that happens due to the lower frequency at those two stations. Will be interesting to see if the 207 and 607 cope. I imagine that the diverted 427 link between Southall Station and the western end of the Broadway will be popular. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the 177/180 change this side of London. I suspect TfL will get things right again. How is the 278 coming along? The 278 is great actually, created so many new links. It was a bit slow at start, but it has got a dedicated user base now. It good to have a north-south bus route serving LB Hillingdon that does not go through Uxbridge. Although sometimes it can be overshadowed a bit by the X140 along the southern end, but that is normal just due to X140 being an express route. Even though it isnt a night route. It finishes quite late and starts early in the morning i want to say 3.55 am but don't quote on that. Its something, that has been demanded for a long time as well. However, with that 427 change i have never been a big fan of it. Going down more of Southall will make the route feel longer than it actually is, im talking about the time in relation to the new proposed routing not the old route. I think this change will put more pressure on the 607. Unless they boost the frequency of that. Its a cheaper fast alternative, which can take advantage of hopper fare pretty well. Lets say you are going to Hillingdon Hospital (which desperately needs more direct links in West London, outside of LB Hillingdon). Lets say your going from Ealing. Probably half an hour to Hayes End or 50 minutes Brunel University. With the amount of buses there you get on a bus within the hour. Only paying the £1.55. However, with Crossrail your going to West Drayton or Hayes and Harlington, paying a more expensive amount than the bus. Then paying again for the bus. The 607 is the backbone of West London when it comes to travelling around there. And it will need support with the 427 and 207, unchanged.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 6, 2022 20:22:43 GMT
TfL data must that a significant number of passengers will want to travel to the Lizzie line at Southall instead of connecting to the Central Line at Ealing Broadway. If that happens, we can expect freed up capacity on the 607. Also TfL think that fewer people will travel through Ealing to Ealing Broadway, instead choosing to go via their nearest station at Hanwell or West Ealing. Will remain to be seen if that happens due to the lower frequency at those two stations. Will be interesting to see if the 207 and 607 cope. I imagine that the diverted 427 link between Southall Station and the western end of the Broadway will be popular. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the 177/180 change this side of London. I suspect TfL will get things right again. How is the 278 coming along? The 278 is great actually, created so many new links. It was a bit slow at start, but it has got a dedicated user base now. It good to have a north-south bus route serving LB Hillingdon that does not go through Uxbridge. Although sometimes it can be overshadowed a bit by the X140 along the southern end, but that is normal just due to X140 being an express route. Even though it isnt a night route. It finishes quite late and starts early in the morning i want to say 3.55 am but don't quote on that. Its something, that has been demanded for a long time as well. However, with that 427 change i have never been a big fan of it. Going down more of Southall will make the route feel longer than it actually is, im talking about the time in relation to the new proposed routing not the old route. I think this change will put more pressure on the 607. Unless they boost the frequency of that. Its a cheaper fast alternative, which can take advantage of hopper fare pretty well. Lets say you are going to Hillingdon Hospital (which desperately needs more direct links in West London, outside of LB Hillingdon). Lets say your going from Ealing. Probably half an hour to Hayes End or 50 minutes Brunel University. With the amount of buses there you get on a bus within the hour. Only paying the £1.55. However, with Crossrail your going to West Drayton or Hayes and Harlington, paying a more expensive amount than the bus. Then paying again for the bus. The 607 is the backbone of West London when it comes to travelling around there. And it will need support with the 427 and 207, unchanged. The 427 will get snarled up in the horrendous traffic on South Road on its way down to Merrick Road which could make it less attractive to use as a link to Southall station - also important to consider many people west of Southall may be heading to destinations along the Uxbridge Road and enjoy the convenience of a direct link which the 427 provides - I don't see a huge drop off in demand along the corridor once Crossrail is up and running. The 607 desperately needs a frequency increase I think 8bph would be good as the route gets so packed sometimes leaving people behind. The 207 will struggle out of Southall with only the infrequent single decker 195 for support.
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Aug 7, 2022 21:03:30 GMT
The 278 is great actually, created so many new links. It was a bit slow at start, but it has got a dedicated user base now. It good to have a north-south bus route serving LB Hillingdon that does not go through Uxbridge. Although sometimes it can be overshadowed a bit by the X140 along the southern end, but that is normal just due to X140 being an express route. Even though it isnt a night route. It finishes quite late and starts early in the morning i want to say 3.55 am but don't quote on that. Its something, that has been demanded for a long time as well. However, with that 427 change i have never been a big fan of it. Going down more of Southall will make the route feel longer than it actually is, im talking about the time in relation to the new proposed routing not the old route. I think this change will put more pressure on the 607. Unless they boost the frequency of that. Its a cheaper fast alternative, which can take advantage of hopper fare pretty well. Lets say you are going to Hillingdon Hospital (which desperately needs more direct links in West London, outside of LB Hillingdon). Lets say your going from Ealing. Probably half an hour to Hayes End or 50 minutes Brunel University. With the amount of buses there you get on a bus within the hour. Only paying the £1.55. However, with Crossrail your going to West Drayton or Hayes and Harlington, paying a more expensive amount than the bus. Then paying again for the bus. The 607 is the backbone of West London when it comes to travelling around there. And it will need support with the 427 and 207, unchanged. The 427 will get snarled up in the horrendous traffic on South Road on its way down to Merrick Road which could make it less attractive to use as a link to Southall station - also important to consider many people west of Southall may be heading to destinations along the Uxbridge Road and enjoy the convenience of a direct link which the 427 provides - I don't see a huge drop off in demand along the corridor once Crossrail is up and running. The 607 desperately needs a frequency increase I think 8bph would be good as the route gets so packed sometimes leaving people behind. The 207 will struggle out of Southall with only the infrequent single decker 195 for support. The 195 is unreliable as well. Goin through Southall and Hayes (prior to the high st change) was chaos , and it usually full. Needs DDs desperately.
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Post by evergreenadam on Aug 8, 2022 9:27:38 GMT
The 427 will get snarled up in the horrendous traffic on South Road on its way down to Merrick Road which could make it less attractive to use as a link to Southall station - also important to consider many people west of Southall may be heading to destinations along the Uxbridge Road and enjoy the convenience of a direct link which the 427 provides - I don't see a huge drop off in demand along the corridor once Crossrail is up and running. The 607 desperately needs a frequency increase I think 8bph would be good as the route gets so packed sometimes leaving people behind. The 207 will struggle out of Southall with only the infrequent single decker 195 for support. The 195 is unreliable as well. Goin through Southall and Hayes (prior to the high st change) was chaos , and it usually full. Needs DDs desperately. Would be interested to know if the Ealing Hospital to Brentford section is well used since the extension took place.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 8, 2022 10:33:19 GMT
The 195 is unreliable as well. Goin through Southall and Hayes (prior to the high st change) was chaos , and it usually full. Needs DDs desperately. Would be interested to know if the Ealing Hospital to Brentford section is well used since the extension took place. From my (mostly pre COVID) observations the 195 extension has been a great success, the new link has proved hugely popular and buses get very busy. The link to the tube at Boston Manor is popular and the route gets packed at school kick out time. The route really needs a frequency increase and double deckers to cope with demand.
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Post by busman on Aug 8, 2022 11:22:11 GMT
Would be interested to know if the Ealing Hospital to Brentford section is well used since the extension took place. From my (mostly pre COVID) observations the 195 extension has been a great success, the new link has proved hugely popular and buses get very busy. The link to the tube at Boston Manor is popular and the route gets packed at school kick out time. The route really needs a frequency increase and double deckers to cope with demand. Agreed. I have family who regularly use the 195 on that section and the general feeling is that it needs deckers, a frequency increase, and it can be unreliable.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 8, 2022 11:30:12 GMT
From my (mostly pre COVID) observations the 195 extension has been a great success, the new link has proved hugely popular and buses get very busy. The link to the tube at Boston Manor is popular and the route gets packed at school kick out time. The route really needs a frequency increase and double deckers to cope with demand. Agreed. I have family who regularly use the 195 on that section and the general feeling is that it needs deckers, a frequency increase, and it can be unreliable. It's what I've heard from people who live in around and frequent the route too
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Post by busman on Aug 8, 2022 12:56:17 GMT
The 278 is great actually, created so many new links. It was a bit slow at start, but it has got a dedicated user base now. It good to have a north-south bus route serving LB Hillingdon that does not go through Uxbridge. Although sometimes it can be overshadowed a bit by the X140 along the southern end, but that is normal just due to X140 being an express route. Even though it isnt a night route. It finishes quite late and starts early in the morning i want to say 3.55 am but don't quote on that. Its something, that has been demanded for a long time as well. However, with that 427 change i have never been a big fan of it. Going down more of Southall will make the route feel longer than it actually is, im talking about the time in relation to the new proposed routing not the old route. I think this change will put more pressure on the 607. Unless they boost the frequency of that. Its a cheaper fast alternative, which can take advantage of hopper fare pretty well. Lets say you are going to Hillingdon Hospital (which desperately needs more direct links in West London, outside of LB Hillingdon). Lets say your going from Ealing. Probably half an hour to Hayes End or 50 minutes Brunel University. With the amount of buses there you get on a bus within the hour. Only paying the £1.55. However, with Crossrail your going to West Drayton or Hayes and Harlington, paying a more expensive amount than the bus. Then paying again for the bus. The 607 is the backbone of West London when it comes to travelling around there. And it will need support with the 427 and 207, unchanged. The 427 will get snarled up in the horrendous traffic on South Road on its way down to Merrick Road which could make it less attractive to use as a link to Southall station - also important to consider many people west of Southall may be heading to destinations along the Uxbridge Road and enjoy the convenience of a direct link which the 427 provides - I don't see a huge drop off in demand along the corridor once Crossrail is up and running. The 607 desperately needs a frequency increase I think 8bph would be good as the route gets so packed sometimes leaving people behind. The 207 will struggle out of Southall with only the infrequent single decker 195 for support. The diversion of the 427 is designed to get people to the Lizzie Line faster. Even with traffic, it will be quicker for passengers east of Hayes By Pass to get to Southall than to West Ealing or Ealing Broadway stations. TfL will have data on what proportion of passengers ride into Ealing Broadway and transfer to the Central Line and you may be underestimating the popularity of the Lizzie Line once the central section is connected to West London. In the east, I’m seeing plenty of people travelling between Woolwich and Abbey Wood. Much faster than bus, and cheaper, faster, more frequent than Southeastern. West Drayton, Hayes, Southall, Hanwell and West Ealing are going to see huge increases in passenger volume including for local journeys not even touching Paddington and beyond. To your point about loss of links, it will be a shame that many point to point links between Ealing, Hayes, and Hillingdon will be broken by the 427 diversion. TfL estimated that 5% (1200) of 427 journeys per weekday will be broken, although it may be lower due to changing travel patterns when the Lizzie line is connected up. It will be interesting to see what TfL finally decides to do for the Southall changes. Obviously the data and budget available will speak more loudly than opinion, but I would like to see the following compromise: 207- Diverted to Hayes & Harlington Station via Southall Waterside instead of the H32 427 - unchanged H32 - Extended to Hayes By-Pass This would be complicated by the fact that the Waterside changes probably won’t kick in until 2024. So initially the 207 will be unchanged and the H32 will provide extra capacity between Hayes By-Pass and Southall Town Hall. However this staggered approach to Lizzie line bus changes does have precedent. In South East London for some time we had the newly introduced 301 duplicating the 472 between Thamesmead and Woolwich until the time arose for the final changes to be implemented.
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Aug 14, 2022 12:08:04 GMT
The 427 will get snarled up in the horrendous traffic on South Road on its way down to Merrick Road which could make it less attractive to use as a link to Southall station - also important to consider many people west of Southall may be heading to destinations along the Uxbridge Road and enjoy the convenience of a direct link which the 427 provides - I don't see a huge drop off in demand along the corridor once Crossrail is up and running. The 607 desperately needs a frequency increase I think 8bph would be good as the route gets so packed sometimes leaving people behind. The 207 will struggle out of Southall with only the infrequent single decker 195 for support. The diversion of the 427 is designed to get people to the Lizzie Line faster. Even with traffic, it will be quicker for passengers east of Hayes By Pass to get to Southall than to West Ealing or Ealing Broadway stations. TfL will have data on what proportion of passengers ride into Ealing Broadway and transfer to the Central Line and you may be underestimating the popularity of the Lizzie Line once the central section is connected to West London. In the east, I’m seeing plenty of people travelling between Woolwich and Abbey Wood. Much faster than bus, and cheaper, faster, more frequent than Southeastern. West Drayton, Hayes, Southall, Hanwell and West Ealing are going to see huge increases in passenger volume including for local journeys not even touching Paddington and beyond. To your point about loss of links, it will be a shame that many point to point links between Ealing, Hayes, and Hillingdon will be broken by the 427 diversion. TfL estimated that 5% (1200) of 427 journeys per weekday will be broken, although it may be lower due to changing travel patterns when the Lizzie line is connected up. It will be interesting to see what TfL finally decides to do for the Southall changes. Obviously the data and budget available will speak more loudly than opinion, but I would like to see the following compromise: 207- Diverted to Hayes & Harlington Station via Southall Waterside instead of the H32 427 - unchanged H32 - Extended to Hayes By-Pass This would be complicated by the fact that the Waterside changes probably won’t kick in until 2024. So initially the 207 will be unchanged and the H32 will provide extra capacity between Hayes By-Pass and Southall Town Hall. However this staggered approach to Lizzie line bus changes does have precedent. In South East London for some time we had the newly introduced 301 duplicating the 472 between Thamesmead and Woolwich until the time arose for the final changes to be implemented. A big problem with diverting the 207 from Hayes-by-pass to Hayes and Harlington is the frequency of the route is too great. And you have the U5, 140 and 350 terminating around there as well. Maybe you could use Hayes bus garage. But that means it would not reach the station. it would have to have to be a combination of using the new Hayes village development and the asda stands.
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Post by evergreenadam on Aug 20, 2022 10:46:22 GMT
Would be interested to know if the Ealing Hospital to Brentford section is well used since the extension took place. From my (mostly pre COVID) observations the 195 extension has been a great success, the new link has proved hugely popular and buses get very busy. The link to the tube at Boston Manor is popular and the route gets packed at school kick out time. The route really needs a frequency increase and double deckers to cope with demand. Is the demand being driven by people using new the round the corner link from Ealing Hospital to Boston Manor Station or just local journeys along Boston Road?
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Post by rif153 on Aug 20, 2022 23:03:01 GMT
From my (mostly pre COVID) observations the 195 extension has been a great success, the new link has proved hugely popular and buses get very busy. The link to the tube at Boston Manor is popular and the route gets packed at school kick out time. The route really needs a frequency increase and double deckers to cope with demand. Is the demand being driven by people using new the round the corner link from Ealing Hospital to Boston Manor Station or just local journeys along Boston Road? I think its mainly driven by demand for the round the corner link from Ealing Hospital to Boston Road, the route gets quite busy along Boston Road with people making local journeys and whilst it does thin out as you get towards the junction with Uxbridge Road there are still many people on the bus heading towards Southall.
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Post by VMH2537 on Nov 7, 2022 20:58:24 GMT
Does anyone have any information on when the West London changes will take place? The Elizabeth line recently started operating direct services to the core and can't seem to think why they wouldn't when changes in East London went ahead of opening.
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Post by Busboy105 on Nov 7, 2022 23:06:00 GMT
Does anyone have any information on when the West London changes will take place? The Elizabeth line recently started operating direct services to the core and can't seem to think why they wouldn't when changes in East London went ahead of opening. They could happen when the line fully connects in May. Otherwise we would've heard about the changes by now
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2022 11:45:50 GMT
I enquired about the E1 extension and got a bland non reply - something along lines that TfL keep routes under review etc etc.
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