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Post by londontravel on Sept 29, 2017 21:25:20 GMT
How many trains are required for the Northern Line extension? When will the trains be ordered?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 30, 2017 0:00:30 GMT
How many trains are required for the Northern Line extension? When will the trains be ordered? The number of trains needed for both the Northern and Jubilee upgrade / extension plans has varied. Remember LU want to buy a common batch of extra trains to allow for enhanced tph on both Northern and Jubilee lines and to cater for the NLE to Battersea. To cover NL upgrade and NLE 17 trains are needed (see content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160302-14-northern-line-upgrade-2.pdf) To cover JL upgrade 10 trains are needed (see content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160302-13-jubilee-line-upgrade-2.pdfThe reality is that the trains should have been ordered months ago. However no funding papers have come forward which leads me to believe there is a budgetary crisis on both projects or else why hold back in getting a paper done? The procurement process for the trains has been underway for ages and should have concluded by now but I suspect Alstom are playing "silly b*ggers" in the background. They're the obvious choice given they built the existing trains. Going with anyone else will be risky but Alstom probably haven't bid the cheapest price knowing they have significant insider knowledge. There should, in theory, be a funding and procurement authority paper in October but I am not holding my breath. At some point someone is going to twig all is not going well.
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Post by londontravel on Sept 30, 2017 6:01:34 GMT
How many trains are required for the Northern Line extension? When will the trains be ordered? The number of trains needed for both the Northern and Jubilee upgrade / extension plans has varied. Remember LU want to buy a common batch of extra trains to allow for enhanced tph on both Northern and Jubilee lines and to cater for the NLE to Battersea. To cover NL upgrade and NLE 17 trains are needed (see content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160302-14-northern-line-upgrade-2.pdf) To cover JL upgrade 10 trains are needed (see content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160302-13-jubilee-line-upgrade-2.pdfThe reality is that the trains should have been ordered months ago. However no funding papers have come forward which leads me to believe there is a budgetary crisis on both projects or else why hold back in getting a paper done? The procurement process for the trains has been underway for ages and should have concluded by now but I suspect Alstom are playing "silly b*ggers" in the background. They're the obvious choice given they built the existing trains. Going with anyone else will be risky but Alstom probably haven't bid the cheapest price knowing they have significant insider knowledge. There should, in theory, be a funding and procurement authority paper in October but I am not holding my breath. At some point someone is going to twig all is not going well. Do you think this will delay the start date on the extension if things are not resolved soon?
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Post by snowman on Sept 30, 2017 7:00:38 GMT
The number of trains needed for both the Northern and Jubilee upgrade / extension plans has varied. Remember LU want to buy a common batch of extra trains to allow for enhanced tph on both Northern and Jubilee lines and to cater for the NLE to Battersea. To cover NL upgrade and NLE 17 trains are needed (see content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160302-14-northern-line-upgrade-2.pdf) To cover JL upgrade 10 trains are needed (see content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160302-13-jubilee-line-upgrade-2.pdfThe reality is that the trains should have been ordered months ago. However no funding papers have come forward which leads me to believe there is a budgetary crisis on both projects or else why hold back in getting a paper done? The procurement process for the trains has been underway for ages and should have concluded by now but I suspect Alstom are playing "silly b*ggers" in the background. They're the obvious choice given they built the existing trains. Going with anyone else will be risky but Alstom probably haven't bid the cheapest price knowing they have significant insider knowledge. There should, in theory, be a funding and procurement authority paper in October but I am not holding my breath. At some point someone is going to twig all is not going well. Do you think this will delay the start date on the extension if things are not resolved soon? No, a service will be provided, even if it is less frequent than intended (although some other sections will need a frequency decrease to compensate). Too politically sensitive to get private funds (developer contribution) to build part of the extension, then not open it. The reality as stated above is a choice between Alsthom (who can charge high price) or a new design from someone else (who probably won't want to do the development unless they get something else like Piccadilly line fleet). The trains could be very expensive and lucrative for the train builder.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 30, 2017 9:51:19 GMT
Do you think this will delay the start date on the extension if things are not resolved soon? TfL people were dragged in front of the Assembly Budget Cttee this week to explain delays to the capital programme. I have yet to listen to the webcast of the session but one "headline" that did emerge was that completing the Battersea extension would be "very challenging" by 2020. Now this is probably nothing to do with the trains to be honest. The developer of the Power Station site decided to completely redesign the planned development over the underground station. This meant that the design of the station had to change to be able to take the weight of the revised development. This delayed work for months and is somewhat ironic given the developer will want the train service to be there on day one of the site opening for business. There has been little or no public disclosure about the impact of the delay and the costs and who will bear them. To be honest it was a pretty bad to do given it puts LU / TfL potentially in breach of their agreement to build the extension in the first place. It also risks later issues with the level of service to be operated, revenue and how many people visit the redeveloped area which may affect how much money is raised to pay back the £1bn loan to build the tube line. In short it has the potential to be a right old mess. They have to be careful with delays to the NLE as there are other things planned such as a major closure of the Northern Line at Bank to allow for the revised track and tunnel layout to be joined up and linked in to the Northern Line. You can't really have one delay the other.
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Post by routew15 on Sept 30, 2017 10:40:39 GMT
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Post by londonbuses2018 on Nov 8, 2017 18:27:13 GMT
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Post by M1104 on Jan 10, 2018 20:26:49 GMT
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Post by M1104 on Feb 17, 2018 3:19:10 GMT
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Post by M1104 on Jun 5, 2018 15:17:12 GMT
Not quite Battersea-related not here's one of the latest vid regarding the new southbound Bank platform and running tunnel, due to be completed around 2022. youtu.be/0eVRc2Sy_yU
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Post by kmkcheng on Sept 13, 2018 10:57:33 GMT
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Post by M1104 on Sept 13, 2018 12:08:34 GMT
What about Vauxhall Station on the Victoria Line? Would that then become a zone 1 only station as well? It's presently on the zone 1 and 2 borderline.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 13, 2018 12:43:02 GMT
What about Vauxhall Station on the Victoria Line? Would that then become a zone 1 only station as well? It's presently on the zone 1 and 2 borderline. I loathe all this rezoning nonsense - it's only ever a political ruse presented as having no cost to anyone and only upside. AIUI Kennington will move to Zones 1/2 which makes sense given there was clearly a decision to put the NLE stations in Zone 1 rather than Zone 2. I suspect some of that is to do with presentational issues for the development to push up prices "oh look you've got posh riverside flat in Zone 1" but also about the revenue stream for the extension itself. Putting Kennington on the boundary may not be geographically wonderful but it reflects the way the extension links into the Northern Line. TfL (the Mayor) are not going to agree to rezoning which pulls their income down. Just not going to happen.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 13, 2018 13:16:35 GMT
Just goes to show how political people in Lambeth champion the wrong issue as always.
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Post by M1104 on Dec 23, 2018 16:48:09 GMT
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