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Post by M1104 on Oct 6, 2017 12:06:46 GMT
This makes me wonder, Will the 343 move to standing at NX garage when Go Ahead takeover? That appeared to be the case when they last took over the route from Stagecoach in 2001, in conjunction with its renumbering to 343 (from P3).
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Post by sid on Oct 6, 2017 12:38:46 GMT
Can you not use the toilets at NX? I've seen Go Ahead drivers on the 68 using the facilities at Norwood. As far as I am aware we aren't allowed. Go Ahead even refused access to turnaround on the 343 hence the need for the Jerningham Road stand. I can understand them not allowing a competitors buses in but I thought there was some sort of gentlemens agreement between operators about drivers using toilets?
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Post by Hassaan on Oct 6, 2017 17:32:41 GMT
As far as I am aware we aren't allowed. Go Ahead even refused access to turnaround on the 343 hence the need for the Jerningham Road stand. I can understand them not allowing a competitors buses in but I thought there was some sort of gentlemens agreement between operators about drivers using toilets? Yet London United have no issues with the Metroline 120 and 222 buses standing on their forecourt at Hounslow and their drivers using the facilities…
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 6, 2017 19:18:27 GMT
Can you not use the toilets at NX? I've seen Go Ahead drivers on the 68 using the facilities at Norwood. As far as I am aware we aren't allowed. Go Ahead even refused access to turnaround on the 343 hence the need for the Jerningham Road stand. A bit mean of them. Maybe Stagecoach should have also denied them from using Catford Bus garage.
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Post by Paul on Oct 6, 2017 19:21:13 GMT
As far as I am aware we aren't allowed. Go Ahead even refused access to turnaround on the 343 hence the need for the Jerningham Road stand. A bit mean of them. Maybe Stagecoach should have also denied them from using Catford Bus garage. As I understand it TL's forecourt is designated as a TfL bus stand during the day. I imagine as part of this, access to toilets should be given. I don't believe this arrangement applies to NX. That said, as drivers, we are all playing the same game - denying drivers access to toilets even if they are from another company seems rather petty to me EDIT These are second hand anecdotes but I have been told NX used to have a space somewhere (I have no idea of the layout of NX so don't know where) given over to other companies' buses. My dad (a long time PD driver) also tells me he's heard of PD buses popping into NX for water I am also aware that back when the 51 was a BX route, some drivers would take evening reliefs at PD leading to Go Ahead buses parked on the PD forecourt
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Post by M1104 on Oct 6, 2017 20:07:49 GMT
A bit mean of them. Maybe Stagecoach should have also denied them from using Catford Bus garage. As I understand it TL's forecourt is designated as a TfL bus stand during the day. I imagine as part of this, access to toilets should be given. I don't believe this arrangement applies to NX. Indeed as the Jerringham Road stand is presently also the first stop for the return journey. Therefore it's under TfL instruction that the stand time has to be taken there instead of closer to NX. I would guess however if drivers chose to walk it from the stand to NX and ask for the facilities, the chances[1] are that they'd be allowed in. [1] - based on two occasions when Arriva's BN helped me out when I needed the facilities and a till roll. On both occasions I was a 133 driver from Go Ahead that needed to take a brief pit stop at Telford Avenue
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Post by sid on Oct 6, 2017 20:21:51 GMT
I can understand them not allowing a competitors buses in but I thought there was some sort of gentlemens agreement between operators about drivers using toilets? Yet London United have no issues with the Metroline 120 and 222 buses standing on their forecourt at Hounslow and their drivers using the facilities… I might be wrong but I thought the forecourt at Hounslow (ie what's left of the bus station) was owned by TfL?
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Post by sid on Oct 6, 2017 20:25:20 GMT
As I understand it TL's forecourt is designated as a TfL bus stand during the day. I imagine as part of this, access to toilets should be given. I don't believe this arrangement applies to NX. Indeed as the Jerringham Road stand is presently also the first stop for the return journey. Therefore it's under TfL instruction that the stand time has to be taken there instead of closer to NX. I would guess however if drivers chose to walk it from the stand to NX and ask for the facilities, the chances[1] are that they'd be allowed in. [1] - based on two occasions when Arriva's BN helped me out when I needed the facilities and a till roll. On both occasions I was a 133 driver from Go Ahead that needed to take a brief pit stop at Telford Avenue I've seen London United drivers on the 57 go into BN (presumably for the toilet?) and Go Ahead drivers on the 68 use the facilities at Norwood so presumably that will continue when Abellio take over the 68?
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Post by M1104 on Oct 7, 2017 13:29:44 GMT
Indeed as the Jerringham Road stand is presently also the first stop for the return journey. Therefore it's under TfL instruction that the stand time has to be taken there instead of closer to NX. I would guess however if drivers chose to walk it from the stand to NX and ask for the facilities, the chances[1] are that they'd be allowed in. [1] - based on two occasions when Arriva's BN helped me out when I needed the facilities and a till roll. On both occasions I was a 133 driver from Go Ahead that needed to take a brief pit stop at Telford Avenue I've seen London United drivers on the 57 go into BN (presumably for the toilet?) and Go Ahead drivers on the 68 use the facilities at Norwood so presumably that will continue when Abellio take over the 68? Most likely, based on present arrangements there and elsewhere.
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Post by BusesInLondon on Oct 7, 2017 13:50:39 GMT
Yet London United have no issues with the Metroline 120 and 222 buses standing on their forecourt at Hounslow and their drivers using the facilities… I might be wrong but I thought the forecourt at Hounslow (ie what's left of the bus station) was owned by TfL? For example in Ruislip, Sovereign came up with an agreement with Metroline for their drivers to use their canteen there.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 9, 2017 10:11:06 GMT
A bit mean of them. Maybe Stagecoach should have also denied them from using Catford Bus garage. As I understand it TL's forecourt is designated as a TfL bus stand during the day. I imagine as part of this, access to toilets should be given. I don't believe this arrangement applies to NX. That said, as drivers, we are all playing the same game - denying drivers access to toilets even if they are from another company seems rather petty to me EDIT These are second hand anecdotes but I have been told NX used to have a space somewhere (I have no idea of the layout of NX so don't know where) given over to other companies' buses. My dad (a long time PD driver) also tells me he's heard of PD buses popping into NX for water I am also aware that back when the 51 was a BX route, some drivers would take evening reliefs at PD leading to Go Ahead buses parked on the PD forecourt Surely TfL do not own the [TL] forecourt, they have to have some kind of agreement to use it. Still doesn't stop Stagecoach turning back and saying they want to deny them access.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 9, 2017 11:39:49 GMT
As I understand it TL's forecourt is designated as a TfL bus stand during the day. I imagine as part of this, access to toilets should be given. I don't believe this arrangement applies to NX. That said, as drivers, we are all playing the same game - denying drivers access to toilets even if they are from another company seems rather petty to me EDIT These are second hand anecdotes but I have been told NX used to have a space somewhere (I have no idea of the layout of NX so don't know where) given over to other companies' buses. My dad (a long time PD driver) also tells me he's heard of PD buses popping into NX for water I am also aware that back when the 51 was a BX route, some drivers would take evening reliefs at PD leading to Go Ahead buses parked on the PD forecourt Surely TfL do not own the [TL] forecourt, they have to have some kind of agreement to use it. Still doesn't stop Stagecoach turning back and saying they want to deny them access. I am sceptical that TfL have an absolute right to declare a stand on Stagecoach's property. It may well be there because of an agreement but one that is probably reviewed whenever TfL retender or extend the 171's contract. In all cases I expect that access for another company's vehicles into another company's garage are subject to agreement and risk assessment. I suspect New Cross may be a bit of a special case given the high volume of vehicle movements of route 36 vehicles. Also what's the access arrangement these days? Does everything still run in from the main road or round the back? If the latter then I can partially understand why GAL might be reluctant to have Abellio vehicles driving through a working garage rather than accessing a bit of hardstanding outside as if the case at Catford. In terms of driver welfare I'd hope that "common sense" generally prevails over access to toilets. There's no great sense in being "spiteful" to a competitor if that same competitor has a garage near or at a point where a service you run operates or terminates and your staff would benefit from access to the facilities. Given there is little or no cash handling in garages these days there is not that security aspect to consider which may have been a factor at some garages in the past.
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Post by sid on Oct 9, 2017 12:54:01 GMT
Surely TfL do not own the [TL] forecourt, they have to have some kind of agreement to use it. Still doesn't stop Stagecoach turning back and saying they want to deny them access. I am sceptical that TfL have an absolute right to declare a stand on Stagecoach's property. It may well be there because of an agreement but one that is probably reviewed whenever TfL retender or extend the 171's contract. In all cases I expect that access for another company's vehicles into another company's garage are subject to agreement and risk assessment. I suspect New Cross may be a bit of a special case given the high volume of vehicle movements of route 36 vehicles. Also what's the access arrangement these days? Does everything still run in from the main road or round the back? If the latter then I can partially understand why GAL might be reluctant to have Abellio vehicles driving through a working garage rather than accessing a bit of hardstanding outside as if the case at Catford. In terms of driver welfare I'd hope that "common sense" generally prevails over access to toilets. There's no great sense in being "spiteful" to a competitor if that same competitor has a garage near or at a point where a service you run operates or terminates and your staff would benefit from access to the facilities. Given there is little or no cash handling in garages these days there is not that security aspect to consider which may have been a factor at some garages in the past. Presumably there must be some sort of written agreement in place regarding the 171 using Catford Garage? I can't think of any other instances where buses regularly enter another operators premises other than the former bus station at Hounslow but presumably some similar arrangement exists there?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 12:58:46 GMT
I can understand them not allowing a competitors buses in but I thought there was some sort of gentlemens agreement between operators about drivers using toilets? Yet London United have no issues with the Metroline 120 and 222 buses standing on their forecourt at Hounslow and their drivers using the facilities… AV has always been very accommodating. I expect many of them used to work there!
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Post by londonbusboy on Oct 9, 2017 12:59:34 GMT
Ive seen 171 and 320 drivers using TL's toilets, and ive heard BX have helped out mechanical 269s up Bexleyheath but it could be purely water leak repairs
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