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Post by WH241 on May 3, 2022 19:12:52 GMT
In particular, in 1988-91 BW ran routes 8, 25, and nothing else! Admittedly, route 8 at the time was Bow Church - Willesden Garage. Also, route 25 had 2 overlapping sections: Victoria - Ilford and Aldgate - Becontree Heath. Didn’t BW also work the S2 in 1988-91? Looking at the below BW ran the S2 24/2/90 - 26/9/92 when the route moved to the new SD.
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Post by greenboy on May 3, 2022 21:41:07 GMT
Members, including myself, have been stating observations exactly like that ever since this whole 94 issue came up again. You can find heavy loads on the 94 going west throughout the day, especially on weekends. This evidently has nothing to do with demand, it's about saving money. I spent yesterday afternoon/early evening on Bank Holiday Monday in Oxford Street and was going to post an account of my observations. Busy with pedestrians but vehicle traffic was light. Routes 94 and 139 were carrying good loads on the Oxford Street to Regent Street section. Totally agree that route 94 should not be withdrawn east of Selfridges. No way that the 139 will be able to cope on its own. Route 98 also with good loads. Route 7 loads were average due to terminating at Oxford Circus, if it continued further on then that would make its operation more efficient and it could help share the burden with other routes. Route 390 was the least well loaded of the ‘through’ routes. I think a bit of pragmatism is needed here, there is no way a brand new railway was going to be built through Central London without changes to bus services and clearly the idea is to push people onto the Central Line which is going to be a lot quieter when Crossrail opens. It also removes another route from Oxford Street and I'm actually surprised that the 94 and 148 aren't being merged into one route, whether that happens at a later date remains to be seen.
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Post by vjaska on May 3, 2022 22:38:24 GMT
I spent yesterday afternoon/early evening on Bank Holiday Monday in Oxford Street and was going to post an account of my observations. Busy with pedestrians but vehicle traffic was light. Routes 94 and 139 were carrying good loads on the Oxford Street to Regent Street section. Totally agree that route 94 should not be withdrawn east of Selfridges. No way that the 139 will be able to cope on its own. Route 98 also with good loads. Route 7 loads were average due to terminating at Oxford Circus, if it continued further on then that would make its operation more efficient and it could help share the burden with other routes. Route 390 was the least well loaded of the ‘through’ routes. I think a bit of pragmatism is needed here, there is no way a brand new railway was going to be built through Central London without changes to bus services and clearly the idea is to push people onto the Central Line which is going to be a lot quieter when Crossrail opens. It also removes another route from Oxford Street and I'm actually surprised that the 94 and 148 aren't being merged into one route, whether that happens at a later date remains to be seen. Merging the 94 & 148 isn't viable as has been suggested to you several times no matter how much you mention it. Acton Green to Camberwell is much too long especially when you take into account the 148 hits several traffic hot spots. It's funny you tell others to be pragmatic but you don't seem able to take your own advice?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 22:52:45 GMT
Took the 94 today and at Oxford Circus at around 4pm and I was one of 27 people on the top deck by the it reached Marble Arch Station stop with probably similar numbers on the lower deck aswell. Thats alot of people having to walk down to Marble Arch potentially in a couple of weeks time. TfL don’t care about them. The only electric route gets culled. Makes sense doesn’t it. Two routes from Edgware Road go down that road it should have been one of them. Edit, actually ideally none of them.
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Post by vjaska on May 4, 2022 0:32:52 GMT
Took the 94 today and at Oxford Circus at around 4pm and I was one of 27 people on the top deck by the it reached Marble Arch Station stop with probably similar numbers on the lower deck aswell. Thats alot of people having to walk down to Marble Arch potentially in a couple of weeks time. TfL don’t care about them. The only electric route gets culled. Makes sense doesn’t it. Two routes from Edgware Road go down that road it should have been one of them. Edit, actually ideally none of them. Essentially, Oxford Street is only accessible directly by bus along the whole main stretch if you live in parts of North or North West London. If you live in East London, your routes were removed years ago, South London a few years ago & West London, this year leaving just the 7 to fly the flag for West London
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Post by southlondonbus on May 4, 2022 4:11:51 GMT
TfL don’t care about them. The only electric route gets culled. Makes sense doesn’t it. Two routes from Edgware Road go down that road it should have been one of them. Edit, actually ideally none of them. Essentially, Oxford Street is only accessible directly by bus along the whole main stretch if you live in parts of North or North West London. If you live in East London, your routes were removed years ago, South London a few years ago & West London, this year leaving just the 7 to fly the flag for West London Not sure if it would but its possible as some of North West London is in the same borough as Oxford Street that may be why the links are still quite good. Selfridges isn't a bad place to board and that still has 3 direct links to St Johns Wood compared with having to get off at the top of Park Lane and walk the rest of the way (23/137 spring to mind).
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Post by southlondonbus on May 4, 2022 4:28:17 GMT
I think a bit of pragmatism is needed here, there is no way a brand new railway was going to be built through Central London without changes to bus services and clearly the idea is to push people onto the Central Line which is going to be a lot quieter when Crossrail opens. It also removes another route from Oxford Street and I'm actually surprised that the 94 and 148 aren't being merged into one route, whether that happens at a later date remains to be seen. Merging the 94 & 148 isn't viable as has been suggested to you several times no matter how much you mention it. Acton Green to Camberwell is much too long especially when you take into account the 148 hits several traffic hot spots. It's funny you tell others to be pragmatic but you don't seem able to take your own advice? Whislt I don't see a merger happening as such I still think the 94 could be withdrawn with an 8 mins service on the 31 diverted at SB to Acton Green and the 148 boosted to every 8 mins with maybe the 274 extended to Nott Hill Gt. For me the viability of the 94 really depends where it stands. If for sake of argument a route is withdrawn from the Marble Arch stand and the 94 moves there and the first stop is Bayswater Road then demand will plummet. If North Row ever happens then it will still be an option for lot of people as it will still stop on Oxford Street itself at Marble Arch Station. Best is if it can drop off and pick up at Selfridges. For example yday I wouldn't have minded walking to Selfridges to get it. To cross park lane to get to Bayswater Road I very much doubt I would have done and would have taken the Central Line to S Bush.
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Post by greenboy on May 4, 2022 5:55:55 GMT
Merging the 94 & 148 isn't viable as has been suggested to you several times no matter how much you mention it. Acton Green to Camberwell is much too long especially when you take into account the 148 hits several traffic hot spots. It's funny you tell others to be pragmatic but you don't seem able to take your own advice? Whislt I don't see a merger happening as such I still think the 94 could be withdrawn with an 8 mins service on the 31 diverted at SB to Acton Green and the 148 boosted to every 8 mins with maybe the 274 extended to Nott Hill Gt. For me the viability of the 94 really depends where it stands. If for sake of argument a route is withdrawn from the Marble Arch stand and the 94 moves there and the first stop is Bayswater Road then demand will plummet. If North Row ever happens then it will still be an option for lot of people as it will still stop on Oxford Street itself at Marble Arch Station. Best is if it can drop off and pick up at Selfridges. For example yday I wouldn't have minded walking to Selfridges to get it. To cross park lane to get to Bayswater Road I very much doubt I would have done and would have taken the Central Line to S Bush. Yes the 31 to Acton Green is another possibility although I think a 94/148 merger remains a long term possibility thus still maintaining a Central London link with the 274 maybe extended to NHG, armchair experts reckoned the 1/168 wasn't possible but meanwhile in the real world. I think the only saving grace for the 94 is the stop outside Primark on Oxford Street. No doubt there would be all sorts of objections to a stand on North Row and the only thing I can think of as things stand is to reroute the 30 the same way as the 189,274 etc and the current 30 stop on Gloucester Place becomes the 94 stand.
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Post by WH241 on May 4, 2022 7:50:43 GMT
Whislt I don't see a merger happening as such I still think the 94 could be withdrawn with an 8 mins service on the 31 diverted at SB to Acton Green and the 148 boosted to every 8 mins with maybe the 274 extended to Nott Hill Gt. For me the viability of the 94 really depends where it stands. If for sake of argument a route is withdrawn from the Marble Arch stand and the 94 moves there and the first stop is Bayswater Road then demand will plummet. If North Row ever happens then it will still be an option for lot of people as it will still stop on Oxford Street itself at Marble Arch Station. Best is if it can drop off and pick up at Selfridges. For example yday I wouldn't have minded walking to Selfridges to get it. To cross park lane to get to Bayswater Road I very much doubt I would have done and would have taken the Central Line to S Bush. Yes the 31 to Acton Green is another possibility although I think a 94/148 merger remains a long term possibility thus still maintaining a Central London link with the 274 maybe extended to NHG, armchair experts reckoned the 1/168 wasn't possible but meanwhile in the real world. I think the only saving grace for the 94 is the stop outside Primark on Oxford Street. No doubt there would be all sorts of objections to a stand on North Row and the only thing I can think of as things stand is to reroute the 30 the same way as the 189,274 etc and the current 30 stop on Gloucester Place becomes the 94 stand. Armchair experts? I hope you include yourself in the statement seen as you have an opinion on every suggestion! As for the 1 and 168 merger yes it’s going ahead but no one knows if it will work until the service starts! Just because you keep suggesting the 94 merger doesn’t mean it will happen!! Yes you save money on a merged route but still need to increase the PVR so it’s not a instant saving. Also you have to consider longer dwelling times at stops where one route has been withdrawn.
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Post by vjaska on May 4, 2022 11:41:58 GMT
Whislt I don't see a merger happening as such I still think the 94 could be withdrawn with an 8 mins service on the 31 diverted at SB to Acton Green and the 148 boosted to every 8 mins with maybe the 274 extended to Nott Hill Gt. For me the viability of the 94 really depends where it stands. If for sake of argument a route is withdrawn from the Marble Arch stand and the 94 moves there and the first stop is Bayswater Road then demand will plummet. If North Row ever happens then it will still be an option for lot of people as it will still stop on Oxford Street itself at Marble Arch Station. Best is if it can drop off and pick up at Selfridges. For example yday I wouldn't have minded walking to Selfridges to get it. To cross park lane to get to Bayswater Road I very much doubt I would have done and would have taken the Central Line to S Bush. Yes the 31 to Acton Green is another possibility although I think a 94/148 merger remains a long term possibility thus still maintaining a Central London link with the 274 maybe extended to NHG, armchair experts reckoned the 1/168 wasn't possible but meanwhile in the real world. I think the only saving grace for the 94 is the stop outside Primark on Oxford Street. No doubt there would be all sorts of objections to a stand on North Row and the only thing I can think of as things stand is to reroute the 30 the same way as the 189,274 etc and the current 30 stop on Gloucester Place becomes the 94 stand. Aww, you found a new phrase called armchair expert, good for you 🙄 Also, you still haven’t grasped the difference between someone echoing concern and it actually happening so this whole real world nonsense you mutter is laughable at best - stop throwing rocks from your glasshouse.
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Post by twobellstogo on May 5, 2022 16:21:17 GMT
I think a bit of pragmatism is needed here, there is no way a brand new railway was going to be built through Central London without changes to bus services and clearly the idea is to push people onto the Central Line which is going to be a lot quieter when Crossrail opens. It also removes another route from Oxford Street and I'm actually surprised that the 94 and 148 aren't being merged into one route, whether that happens at a later date remains to be seen. Merging the 94 & 148 isn't viable as has been suggested to you several times no matter how much you mention it. Acton Green to Camberwell is much too long especially when you take into account the 148 hits several traffic hot spots. It's funny you tell others to be pragmatic but you don't seem able to take your own advice? If TfL in their wisdom (🙄) decide to thin out Elephant to Camberwell, then a route from Acton Green to Elephant is probably a viable length, but no, definitely not Acton Green to Camberwell.
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Post by danorak on May 5, 2022 16:53:07 GMT
Merging the 94 & 148 isn't viable as has been suggested to you several times no matter how much you mention it. Acton Green to Camberwell is much too long especially when you take into account the 148 hits several traffic hot spots. It's funny you tell others to be pragmatic but you don't seem able to take your own advice? If TfL in their wisdom (🙄) decide to thin out Elephant to Camberwell, then a route from Acton Green to Elephant is probably a viable length, but no, definitely not Acton Green to Camberwell. It did surprise me that the 148 was retained but if there's another round of cuts coming, who knows? I didn't envisage a full 94/148 merger but a chopping up of the various components, something like: 211 - diverted between Victoria & Waterloo via 507 48(!) - New route from Acton Green via 94 to Marble Arch, 148 to Victoria and 211 to Waterloo 94, 148, 507 - Withdrawn 45 - Extended from Elephant via 148 to Victoria But probably a debate for the ideas thread.
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Post by greenboy on May 5, 2022 17:32:57 GMT
If TfL in their wisdom (🙄) decide to thin out Elephant to Camberwell, then a route from Acton Green to Elephant is probably a viable length, but no, definitely not Acton Green to Camberwell. It did surprise me that the 148 was retained but if there's another round of cuts coming, who knows? I didn't envisage a full 94/148 merger but a chopping up of the various components, something like: 211 - diverted between Victoria & Waterloo via 507 48(!) - New route from Acton Green via 94 to Marble Arch, 148 to Victoria and 211 to Waterloo 94, 148, 507 - Withdrawn 45 - Extended from Elephant via 148 to Victoria But probably a debate for the ideas thread. Yes all perfectly plausible, there was a previous suggestion about the 45 being extended to Victoria or Marble Arch and your suggestion is a convenient way to reuse the number 48.
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Post by southlondonbus on May 5, 2022 20:11:16 GMT
It did surprise me that the 148 was retained but if there's another round of cuts coming, who knows? I didn't envisage a full 94/148 merger but a chopping up of the various components, something like: 211 - diverted between Victoria & Waterloo via 507 48(!) - New route from Acton Green via 94 to Marble Arch, 148 to Victoria and 211 to Waterloo 94, 148, 507 - Withdrawn 45 - Extended from Elephant via 148 to Victoria But probably a debate for the ideas thread. Yes all perfectly plausible, there was a previous suggestion about the 45 being extended to Victoria or Marble Arch and your suggestion is a convenient way to reuse the number 48. That proposal TFL were considering at the time seemed slightly odd to me as it didn't save anything and created another Victoria to Marble Arch route and there was no spare stand space at MA.
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Post by WH241 on May 5, 2022 21:04:35 GMT
Yes all perfectly plausible, there was a previous suggestion about the 45 being extended to Victoria or Marble Arch and your suggestion is a convenient way to reuse the number 48. That proposal TFL were considering at the time seemed slightly odd to me as it didn't save anything and created another Victoria to Marble Arch route and there was no spare stand space at MA. Was they ever officially TfL proposals or just rumours?
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