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Post by ServerKing on Aug 21, 2022 6:40:50 GMT
From what I've seen the 22 to Oxford Circus hasn't been particularly successful and it really ought to be returned to Piccadilly. The routing via Berkeley Square has a lot of potential for providing north-south links like the C2 did, as a faster alternative to Park Lane, potential which isn't being realised with the 22 only going up to Oxo. This is the problem with any route going through the heart of Mayfair, residents there are not likely to take the bus! As with the 8, then the C2, now the 22; there aren't a lot of people alighting in the Berkeley Square area. Though the 22 carries the least passengers out of the three over that section, it's clear from my personal opinion that very few journeys start/stop in Mayfair. Working in IT, I don't see closing off large chunks of Oxford Street and Mayfair as beneficial, how will deliveries be made to shops and it will move any congestion elsewhere. Residents such as Ferrari and Bentley may not be happy losing flagship showrooms, especially as foot fall is fairly light, despite the fact it's the height of summer. More are working from home, Lockdown scared many off along with Brexit, so there isn't the same amount of traffic like before. Any traffic has been Khan's doing, such as reducing Regent Street to one lane in both directions, and the mess of Euston Road... Went to Nike Town with my daughter yesterday, the area was dead until 10 when the shops opened Any changes might be resisted by retailers who will see the last of the customers switch to your Westfields, Bluewater or Lakeside where parking and access is easy. Regardless of political colours, Westminster may be struggling for cash to undertake such a suicidal step to ruin the last of the shops, to please a Mayor who doesn't even use public transport
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Post by greenboy on Aug 21, 2022 6:55:15 GMT
The 22 only serves two stops on Regent Street before heading towards Berkeley Square. Whilst not as busy as other routes on Regent Street it serves as a very useful link between Hyde Park Corner and Oxford Circus which the 137 linked albeit by a different route. From what I've seen the 22 to Oxford Circus hasn't been particularly successful and it really ought to be returned to Piccadilly. The routing via Berkeley Square has a lot of potential for providing north-south links like the C2 did, as a faster alternative to Park Lane, potential which isn't being realised with the 22 only going up to Oxo. I agree that the 22 should be returned to Piccadilly Circus especially if the 14 is going, I'm not sure the route though Mayfair is needed anymore although the 305 that you suggested previously has some merit.
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Post by evergreenadam on Aug 21, 2022 7:30:01 GMT
From what I've seen the 22 to Oxford Circus hasn't been particularly successful and it really ought to be returned to Piccadilly. The routing via Berkeley Square has a lot of potential for providing north-south links like the C2 did, as a faster alternative to Park Lane, potential which isn't being realised with the 22 only going up to Oxo. I agree that the 22 should be returned to Piccadilly Circus especially if the 14 is going, I'm not sure the route though Mayfair is needed anymore although the 305 that you suggested previously has some merit. I suggested in my consultation response that the 22 be returned to Piccadilly Circus to retain the King’s Road/Sloane Square/Sloane Street link to Piccadilly Circus in the event that the proposed rerouting of the 19 via South Kensington goes ahead. The 137 could then be reinstated to Oxford Circus to retain the Sloane Square to Oxford Circus link and stop the nonsense of terminating buses on a massive traffic gyratory at Marble Arch a few stops short of where people actually want to go.
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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 21, 2022 8:42:30 GMT
This is the problem with any route going through the heart of Mayfair, residents there are not likely to take the bus! As with the 8, then the C2, now the 22; there aren't a lot of people alighting in the Berkeley Square area. Though the 22 carries the least passengers out of the three over that section, it's clear from my personal opinion that very few journeys start/stop in Mayfair. I do think that section suits a Victoria link like the 25/8/C2 had. That's why I always felt the 11/311 change was better then what's currently proposed and with the 14 going even more reason to take the 22 back to Piccadilly Circus. Could possibly just divert the 22 via Victoria. Then leave the 19 via Sloane Square, and keep the 14 as far as Piccadilly Circus. And the 74/430 merger could then operate between Marble Arch and Roehampton.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 21, 2022 10:00:14 GMT
This is the problem with any route going through the heart of Mayfair, residents there are not likely to take the bus! As with the 8, then the C2, now the 22; there aren't a lot of people alighting in the Berkeley Square area. Though the 22 carries the least passengers out of the three over that section, it's clear from my personal opinion that very few journeys start/stop in Mayfair. I do think that section suits a Victoria link like the 25/8/C2 had. That's why I always felt the 11/311 change was better then what's currently proposed and with the 14 going even more reason to take the 22 back to Piccadilly Circus. If pedestrianisation ever did happen then the 390 could be rerouted via Mayfair which would be a quicker way to Victoria than Park Lane, Wigmore Street is an option but I think residents would fiercely oppose that.
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Post by YX10FFN on Aug 21, 2022 10:13:14 GMT
I do think that section suits a Victoria link like the 25/8/C2 had. That's why I always felt the 11/311 change was better then what's currently proposed and with the 14 going even more reason to take the 22 back to Piccadilly Circus. If pedestrianisation ever did happen then the 390 could be rerouted via Mayfair which would be a quicker way to Victoria than Park Lane, Wigmore Street is an option but I think residents would fiercely oppose that. The 390's current routing works quite well as it hits a number of West End hotspots, especially Marble Arch (although admittedly not as well used as the 73 was). Plus, the 390 provides vital cross-Oxford Street links which are incredibly thin these days after they cut back the 7 and got rid of the 10.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 21, 2022 10:20:21 GMT
If pedestrianisation ever did happen then the 390 could be rerouted via Mayfair which would be a quicker way to Victoria than Park Lane, Wigmore Street is an option but I think residents would fiercely oppose that. The 390's current routing works quite well as it hits a number of West End hotspots, especially Marble Arch (although admittedly not as well used as the 73 was). Plus, the 390 provides vital cross-Oxford Street links which are incredibly thin these days after they cut back the 7 and got rid of the 10. I would personally reroute the 22 back to Piccadilly Circus, extend the 73 to Victoria via Marble Arch (it has a higher frequency and would generally better match loadings on that section than the 390, which has a frequency more dictated by the northern end) and then divert the 390 via Berkeley Square to introduce a quicker route to Victoria from the north. It would also help the 38 out as Piccadilly/Green Park to Victoria is a busy section of the 38, more helpful than the 22 which instead heads towards Knightsbridge at Hyde Park Corner.
I am generally in favour of the 137 returning to Oxford Street, I think changes to retail habits over the years have dictated a lessened need for a traffic free Oxford Street and compared to the mid 00s footfall by the looks of things has decreased.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 21, 2022 10:26:02 GMT
If pedestrianisation ever did happen then the 390 could be rerouted via Mayfair which would be a quicker way to Victoria than Park Lane, Wigmore Street is an option but I think residents would fiercely oppose that. The 390's current routing works quite well as it hits a number of West End hotspots, especially Marble Arch (although admittedly not as well used as the 73 was). Plus, the 390 provides vital cross-Oxford Street links which are incredibly thin these days after they cut back the 7 and got rid of the 10. I'm not advocating breaking the links the 390 provides, as you rightly point out its only the 98 and 390 that go all the way down Oxford Street these days I'm just suggesting if pedestrianisation did happen that would be an option for what to do with the 390.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 22, 2022 9:51:20 GMT
I agree that the 22 should be returned to Piccadilly Circus especially if the 14 is going, I'm not sure the route though Mayfair is needed anymore although the 305 that you suggested previously has some merit. I suggested in my consultation response that the 22 be returned to Piccadilly Circus to retain the King’s Road/Sloane Square/Sloane Street link to Piccadilly Circus in the event that the proposed rerouting of the 19 via South Kensington goes ahead. The 137 could then be reinstated to Oxford Circus to retain the Sloane Square to Oxford Circus link and stop the nonsense of terminating buses on a massive traffic gyratory at Marble Arch a few stops short of where people actually want to go. I worry for the future of routes which terminate at Marble Arch like the 137 and 414, as you say its a poor terminus and I don't see buses that well loaded along Park Lane which leads me to think if TFL were looking to reduce buses along there those routes could fall victim to further cut backs. TFL clearly decided the 113 isn't needed south of Swiss Cottage as it duplicates the 13 all the way down to Marble Arch, when that route still went to Oxford Circus it was providing a unique link but once you get to Baker Street there are so many routes to Marble Arch its not a surprise TFL want to reduce them with the proposals for the 74 and 113.
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Post by greenboy on Aug 22, 2022 10:15:14 GMT
I suggested in my consultation response that the 22 be returned to Piccadilly Circus to retain the King’s Road/Sloane Square/Sloane Street link to Piccadilly Circus in the event that the proposed rerouting of the 19 via South Kensington goes ahead. The 137 could then be reinstated to Oxford Circus to retain the Sloane Square to Oxford Circus link and stop the nonsense of terminating buses on a massive traffic gyratory at Marble Arch a few stops short of where people actually want to go. I worry for the future of routes which terminate at Marble Arch like the 137 and 414, as you say its a poor terminus and I don't see buses that well loaded along Park Lane which leads me to think if TFL were looking to reduce buses along there those routes could fall victim to further cut backs. TFL clearly decided the 113 isn't needed south of Swiss Cottage as it duplicates the 13 all the way down to Marble Arch, when that route still went to Oxford Circus it was providing a unique link but once you get to Baker Street there are so many routes to Marble Arch its not a surprise TFL want to reduce them with the proposals for the 74 and 113. Marble Arch is only really suitable as a terminus for buses coming from Oxford Street other than curtailments, the 137 could at least go to Portman Square or Baker Street if not back to Oxford Circus.
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Post by lundnah on Jul 17, 2023 15:55:14 GMT
Westminster council have launched their latest proposals for transforming Oxford Street.
"The Oxford Street Programme envisions Oxford Street as a vibrant, high quality public space for all who work, live or visit the street. The proposed design allows for greater pedestrian space with more greenery, seating, and lighting to increase accessibility and comfort."
In particular...
Improved bus operationsOver the past few years, the number of bus routes on Oxford Street has reduced from 13 routes in 2017 to 5 routes between Orchard St and Oxford Circus and 4 routes between Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road currently. Therefore, the programme proposes removing underutilised bus stops and consolidating east-west bus operation to single legible stops at each location along the street. Furthermore, the bus stop laybys will be removed to improve bus priority and increase passenger waiting space. To support interchange between bus and underground, a bus stop in each direction will be added near Bond Street Station. The bus network will be simplified through changes to the turnaround loops for routes 7, 12, 22, 55, 73 and 159. To learn more about changes to bus operations, please refer to the maps here.
And if you check the map in that link, a lot of tweaks are proposed...
Routes 22 and N22: • Bus route curtailed south of Oxford Circus • Turnaround route shortened and bus stand relocated
Routes 94, 139 and N113: • Bus route adjusted at Oxford Circus with routes via Great Castle Street
Routes 12, 55, 73, N3, N8, N25, N55, N73 and N109: • Turnaround route shortened and bus stand relocated
Routes 159, N15 and N136: • Bus stand and turnaround loop adjusted
Routes 7, N7 and N137: • Minor adjustment to turnaround route at the end
Routes 88, 98, 390 and 453 • No changes are proposed
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Post by ronnie on Jul 17, 2023 16:37:43 GMT
Westminster council have launched their latest proposals for transforming Oxford Street.
"The Oxford Street Programme envisions Oxford Street as a vibrant, high quality public space for all who work, live or visit the street. The proposed design allows for greater pedestrian space with more greenery, seating, and lighting to increase accessibility and comfort."
In particular...
Improved bus operationsOver the past few years, the number of bus routes on Oxford Street has reduced from 13 routes in 2017 to 5 routes between Orchard St and Oxford Circus and 4 routes between Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road currently. Therefore, the programme proposes removing underutilised bus stops and consolidating east-west bus operation to single legible stops at each location along the street. Furthermore, the bus stop laybys will be removed to improve bus priority and increase passenger waiting space. To support interchange between bus and underground, a bus stop in each direction will be added near Bond Street Station. The bus network will be simplified through changes to the turnaround loops for routes 7, 12, 22, 55, 73 and 159. To learn more about changes to bus operations, please refer to the maps here.
And if you check the map in that link, a lot of tweaks are proposed...
Routes 22 and N22: • Bus route curtailed south of Oxford Circus • Turnaround route shortened and bus stand relocated
Routes 94, 139 and N113: • Bus route adjusted at Oxford Circus with routes via Great Castle Street
Routes 12, 55, 73, N3, N8, N25, N55, N73 and N109: • Turnaround route shortened and bus stand relocated
Routes 159, N15 and N136: • Bus stand and turnaround loop adjusted
Routes 7, N7 and N137: • Minor adjustment to turnaround route at the end
Routes 88, 98, 390 and 453 • No changes are proposed
If I read the maps correctly there will be no buses crossing the short stretch between the junction and John princes street. Pedestrianisation through the back door?
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 17, 2023 16:49:25 GMT
Westminster council have launched their latest proposals for transforming Oxford Street.
"The Oxford Street Programme envisions Oxford Street as a vibrant, high quality public space for all who work, live or visit the street. The proposed design allows for greater pedestrian space with more greenery, seating, and lighting to increase accessibility and comfort."
In particular...
Improved bus operationsOver the past few years, the number of bus routes on Oxford Street has reduced from 13 routes in 2017 to 5 routes between Orchard St and Oxford Circus and 4 routes between Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road currently. Therefore, the programme proposes removing underutilised bus stops and consolidating east-west bus operation to single legible stops at each location along the street. Furthermore, the bus stop laybys will be removed to improve bus priority and increase passenger waiting space. To support interchange between bus and underground, a bus stop in each direction will be added near Bond Street Station. The bus network will be simplified through changes to the turnaround loops for routes 7, 12, 22, 55, 73 and 159. To learn more about changes to bus operations, please refer to the maps here.
And if you check the map in that link, a lot of tweaks are proposed...
Routes 22 and N22: • Bus route curtailed south of Oxford Circus • Turnaround route shortened and bus stand relocated
Routes 94, 139 and N113: • Bus route adjusted at Oxford Circus with routes via Great Castle Street
Routes 12, 55, 73, N3, N8, N25, N55, N73 and N109: • Turnaround route shortened and bus stand relocated
Routes 159, N15 and N136: • Bus stand and turnaround loop adjusted
Routes 7, N7 and N137: • Minor adjustment to turnaround route at the end
Routes 88, 98, 390 and 453 • No changes are proposed
If I read the maps correctly there will be no buses crossing the short stretch between the junction and John princes street. Pedestrianisation through the back door? The 98 and 390 will still go through this section, they are not changing.
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Post by YX10FFN on Jul 17, 2023 17:49:00 GMT
So in short, the proposed standing arrangement at Oxford Circus:
John Princes Street (South of Great Castle Street) Day routes: 7 Night routes: N7, N137
John Princes Street (North of Great Castle Street) Day routes: 12 Night routes: 12, N3, N109
Hanover Street Day routes: 22 Night routes: N22
Margaret Street (West of Regent Street) Day routes: 159 Night routes: 159, N15, N136
Margaret Street (East of Regent Street) Day routes: 55 Night routes: N8, N55
Great Portland Street (between Margaret Street and Oxford Street) Day routes: 73 Night routes: N25, N73
Holles Street, Henrietta Place and Cavendish Place stands taken out of use.
My only problem with this is the 22. I hope buses set down and pick up on stand, because otherwise it's being yanked back quite far from Oxford Circus. The pickup on Regent Street is well used at the moment.
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Post by evergreenadam on Jul 17, 2023 17:53:28 GMT
If I read the maps correctly there will be no buses crossing the short stretch between the junction and John princes street. Pedestrianisation through the back door? The 98 and 390 will still go through this section, they are not changing. I think the idea is to ban left or right turns by buses at the Oxford Circus junction. All buses continue straight on east - west or north - south. The 94 and 139 have longer routes as a result. The shortening of some of the ridiculous turning loops especially the 73 and 55 should save mileage and cut delays. Not so sure about the changes to the 22 though, I think it’s time through Mayfair is almost nigh.
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